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Page 165 of 227 < 1 2 ... 163 164 165 166 167 ... 226 227 >
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#1894789 - 05/10/12 01:40 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
chrisbell Offline
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Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1371
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: beeboss
That is interesting Chris.
I really recommend two books. A Love Supreme and Kind of Blue. Both written by Ashley Kahn. There's other books but these two are really well written.
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#1894829 - 05/10/12 02:57 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: Scott Coletta]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7115
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: Scott Coletta
Have you all heard Mehldau's take on My Favorite Things from Marciac? He changes the form too. It's really nice...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFq8CA4dud4


That was inspiring. I had to interrupt my day and practice that left hand vamp.

He also does that ending of the C section at the very end of the tune, like Coltrane.
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#1894874 - 05/10/12 04:28 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jjo Offline
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Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 656
Loc: Chicago
Form wise, how does Coltrane play it, referring to the lead sheet earlier in the thread?

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#1894891 - 05/10/12 04:52 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7115
Loc: So. California
Breaking the original leadsheet down into

A (x2)
B - E Major section (like a 3rd A).
C - Bridge
D - Final Vamp

Coltrane does it:
A (x2)
Vamp at the end of each A Repeat
B - E Major section
Vamp at the end of this

Rinse and Repeat
DC al Fine at C Bridge.

The vamp is |GMaj7 | Cmaj7| which is the D section.

I haven't actually counted to see if he vamps he fixed number of times. He probably does or they wouldn't be able to keep the form.

It's hard to keep the form when you play it the Julie Andrews way because the beginning of each section sounds the same and before you know it, you forget how many A's you've done. It's really hard to hear the form just listening to the bass player.

I'm really tempted to do it the Coltrane way which is more modal.
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#1894960 - 05/10/12 06:44 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jjo Offline
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Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 656
Loc: Chicago
Thanks Jazzwee. I was feeling lazy today and didn't want to actually listen and figure it out for myself.

I've got my piano recital coming up. My teacher holds a very informal one each year and I play along with the high schooler and junior high schoolers (one or two other adults, also). the kids bring their parents, and my kids joke I should bring my kids (although they wouldn't actually come.)

It's actually a very healthy challenge to work up some tunes for solo piano; so much harder for me. This year it's two of my favorits, Laura and Here's that Rainy Day.

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#1894963 - 05/10/12 06:47 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: chrisbell]
beeboss Offline
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Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1219
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: chrisbell
Originally Posted By: beeboss
That is interesting Chris.
I really recommend two books. A Love Supreme and Kind of Blue. Both written by Ashley Kahn. There's other books but these two are really well written.


I recently read Lewis Porters Coltrane biography which was very good.
Too many books to read.... a good problem to have I guess
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#1895365 - 05/11/12 01:31 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7115
Loc: So. California
So jjo, I'm curious now what's on your typical setlist since you do Latin jazz. Stuff like Ceora below doesn't qualify? LOL.

Ceora
https://www.box.com/s/b495e60bc8623ccbc477

We don't play Bossa stuff as straight bossa either which is usually a very fixed pattern.

When I call some tunes Latin, vs. Bossa, I'm not sure how the drummer and bassist interprets that. To me Bossa is a 1-5-5-1 type pattern.
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#1895399 - 05/11/12 03:17 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jjo Offline
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Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 656
Loc: Chicago
jazzwee: My trio/quartet plays "latin" tune just like you do. Probably one or two a set (one with and one without vocalist). We do the typical stuff like Jobim, Pensative, Morning, etc. We'll also call standards like Autumn Leaves and play them in "latin." This means where playing a bossa type feel. I comp several patterns, but the key is playing on beats 1, 2 and the and of 3 in the first bar of the two bar sequence, and not playing on beat one of the second bar.

When I talk about true latin, I'm referring to an ensemble class I'm taking. The instructor asked me what my experience was, and I said I'd played bossa nova type stuff in a traditional jazz group. He said this is completely different. For instrumentation, we've got, in addition to bass and drums, timbale and congas. The brass always play the melody, and the piano is generally playing some kind of Montuno. The rhythm is always clave based, either 2:3 or 3:2, or sometimes it switches (I can't do this yet.). Generally we use the son montunno, and all of this can be called Afro-cuban music. It is very close to salsa. Soloing has a different feel. One common technique, for example, is to play a melody in tenths, with a single note in the left hand, and a note a couple octaves plus a third above in the right hand.

The tunes are either mambos or cha chas, but I'm hard pressed to tell you the difference. Soloing is often done over a simple vamp such as I IV V IV I.

I'm only 10 weeks into to this class. Hopefully this gives you a feel for the difference between "latin" tunes that us traditional jazz folk play and the afro-cuban music of folks like Tito Puente, Eddie Palmieri. If you want to listen to a cool CD, try Conrad Helwig's The Latin Side of Herbie Hancock. It takes classic Herbie tunes and plays them with the afro-cuban feel.

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#1895407 - 05/11/12 03:41 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7115
Loc: So. California
So how far do you intend to carry this? Are you actually going to do a full latin thing eventually?

I have a percussionist that sometimes plays with me. I go over budget with him so I don't use him often but of course it sounds more Latin just from his congas/timbales, etc. He carries the ball of the feel. I'm just filling in smile

Latin is popular though so done right people feel like dancing to it and can generate a crowd. Also appeals to a younger group I think which is good. My typical crowd is old though they do dance to our swing tunes.

I thought maybe that you've actually shifted your set list to be mostly latin.
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#1895416 - 05/11/12 04:04 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jjo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 656
Loc: Chicago
At this point, I'm just taking the group ensemble class and an occasional private lesson. Where it goes I have no idea. Ii doubt I would ever fully switch as I don't know the latin players in town and it would be a long time before I'd get to where they'd want to play with me. Plus, traditional jazz is my first love. I would, however, eventually like to import some of the concepts into my regular jazz group, although we need a brass player, at least, which we don't have right now.

You are right about budget issues. This past weekend I saw the Pancho Sanchez/Terence Blanchard concert. Pancho is a conguerista and his band had 9 pieces to get the full latin sound: piano, drums, bass, timbale, percusssion, congos, sax, trombone and trumpet. I was thinking of the cost to pay all of those sidemen and how hard it must be to take a band like that on the road these days. But boy did the audience love it.

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#1895421 - 05/11/12 04:14 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7115
Loc: So. California
You see I'm close. I have Sax and Trumpet in the regular group. So when I add Percussion, we have the proper sound. The only issue is probably for me to learn how to authentically comp 'some' true Latin.

I'll have to search out some Youtube videos just to get introduced to it. I do have a lot of Carl Tjader in my Itunes so there's at least some exposure.

Reminds me that when I watched Poncho Sanchez, I'm of course focused on the piano and expected some pyrotechnics there but you're right. It wasn't the focus. I do remember Poncho's group break out into Giant Steps though so I thought that was neat and an acknowledgement that they know how to play straight ahead if they wanted.
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#1895480 - 05/11/12 07:17 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1219
Loc: uk south
If you are into latin it is definitely worth checking out a bit of Chucho Valdez...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VCME9tp9Es

His band Irakere are awesome. Have a listen to what they do with 'stella' ….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLliS0wf8x8&feature=related

That is what can happen when you have a bit of state sponsorship for the arts!
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#1895618 - 05/12/12 04:53 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1371
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Ahh Chucho Valdez! Wicked playing!


Not to forget Michel Camilo
Caribe:

A trio version:
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#1895767 - 05/12/12 01:59 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7115
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: beeboss
If you are into latin it is definitely worth checking out a bit of Chucho Valdez...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VCME9tp9Es

His band Irakere are awesome. Have a listen to what they do with 'stella' ….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLliS0wf8x8&feature=related

That is what can happen when you have a bit of state sponsorship for the arts!


Whoa!!!!! So who's better? Chucho or Rubalcaba? They have some killer pianist from Cuba. Outstanding!
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#1895820 - 05/12/12 04:05 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jjo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 656
Loc: Chicago
Two DVDs I highly recommend:

Calle 54: A documentary about Latin Jazz featuring a ton of great players. There really isn't much "documentary," but the mainly it just shows great music.

Pancho Sanchez: Fundamentals of Latin Music for the Rhythm Section. He plays each of the basis latin forms (mambo, cha cha cha, merengue, etc.) and then shows you what each member of the rhythm section plays. So you get to see the basic patterns for conga, bongo, piano, timbale and bass. A fantastic learning video.

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#1895988 - 05/13/12 12:45 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7115
Loc: So. California
So jjo, you good at unison lines? I was watching some sample montuno stuff and I saw they do two handed 2 handed patterns.
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#1895992 - 05/13/12 01:08 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
So jjo, you good at unison lines? I was watching some sample montuno stuff and I saw they do two handed 2 handed patterns.


What the h@ll is a two handed 2 handed pattern?
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Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.



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#1896044 - 05/13/12 05:51 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: scepticalforumguy]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1219
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: scepticalforumguy

What the h@ll is a two handed 2 handed pattern?


shown here ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQVZs-SZITw&feature=related
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#1896167 - 05/13/12 12:49 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jjo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 656
Loc: Chicago
I'm not great at two-handed stuff, but my early classical training makes it possible for me. I've learned some heads (Au Privave, for example) where I play the melody, single notes, in both hands. It's a good drill and it sounds pretty good with the band. St. Thomas is another good one for this; separate the hands but two octaves.

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#1896307 - 05/13/12 05:37 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
scepticalforumguy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 1475
Loc: Lower Mainland, BC
Originally Posted By: beeboss
Originally Posted By: scepticalforumguy

What the h@ll is a two handed 2 handed pattern?


shown here ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQVZs-SZITw&feature=related


No, those were just two handed patterns. I was asking about a two handed 2 handed pattern that JW mentioned. smile But thanks for the link. Pero yo tenia ninguna idea que tu podrias hablar espagnol?
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#1896349 - 05/13/12 07:39 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1219
Loc: uk south
sorry Sceptical I misunderstood. I don't know where you can find those 2x2 handed patterns ;-)

(Si puedo habla espanol pero solamente bastante para viajar)
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#1896360 - 05/13/12 08:22 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
beeboss Offline
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Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1219
Loc: uk south
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#1896562 - 05/14/12 06:55 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2307
Loc: Sydney
Dave, it's one of my favourite standards on KJ's Jasmine. Thanks for the treat.

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#1896595 - 05/14/12 08:08 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1219
Loc: uk south
Thanks for listening Custard.
I like the Jarrett version but also the Nat Cole version, and the Bollani version.
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#1896635 - 05/14/12 09:55 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1371
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: beeboss
I did a bit of a reharm today, 'for all we know'
Really nice!
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#1896658 - 05/14/12 10:47 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7115
Loc: So. California
Very nice beeboss. That was sweet!

Now since I've started recording on my acoustic, I can say that the clarity of the sound here is amazing. So is it the AKG mics? Could you tell me your mic placement again? (too lazy to search so far back).
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#1896700 - 05/14/12 12:03 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1219
Loc: uk south
Thanks Chris and JW.

JW, mic placement .... you have to try different places and see which sounds good. Mine are about a foot or 2 off the strings, one on the treble more or less over the hammers and the other for the bass about half way way down the piano. So maybe they are 2 or 3 feet apart. But there are many different ways to experiment with depending what sound you want and what the environment is like, whetehr the lid is open etc etc. I think they are set to cardioid if I remember correctly. No eq just some reverb in logic.
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#1896754 - 05/14/12 02:44 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7115
Loc: So. California
I'm debating whether it's worth it to get some nice mics. Or a single nice mic. What model AKG do you have again? There's some inexpensive Chinese versions.

I'm not recording in a studio so it doesn't have to be extreme. But obviously I don't want to waste money on something I will replace later.

I have to say though that hearing excellent quality coming out your acoustic makes me envious. Listen to mine and it sounds compressed in comparison.

https://www.box.com/s/002e462a16b4de2a07b6
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#1896789 - 05/14/12 03:55 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7115
Loc: So. California
Beeboss, look this AKG Pair for $249 from Sweetwater. Unbelievable price. Retail price $900. Is this good?

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M...Pack&SID=-1
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#1896822 - 05/14/12 05:05 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1219
Loc: uk south
I use 2 of those C3000s. I think you need 2 mics that are the same for any kind of a stereo balance. I got them 2nd hand on ebay for less than $100 each. I also have an akg 414 which i use sometimes. This is a much better mic and probably more like $600, but the difference when listening to an mp3 over the web is not going to count for much. It does have a fair bit more clarity when I hear it on a proper sound system.
I did use a C1000 once on drums I think, don't know how good it would be for piano. I am sure Chris knows though.
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