Really ?? How interesting, I've never heard an educator say that. Does this imply that Hal thinks Keith Jarrett's actions are extraneous ?

Yes actually he specifically talked about KJ in his masterclass video. I believe he said, if you can play like KJ and not have your movements affect your playing then you have no problem. But the rest of us need to focus on small muscle movements, not big ones.

The quote was something to that effect.

Now I'm pretty quiet onstage but sometimes my mouth will change shape and my wife will tease me about that. Facial tension? If I can relax everything then perhaps my demeanor will not look so stiff.

But of course, I really am tense...it takes a while to get the confidence to remove that. I still feel the tension in my arms/hands in a live environment. That's why I don't try to play 16ths because it's only something I can do at home.

Nice one JW. It is always good to have a positive experience.

Although perversely I have noticed many times that I always get more people saying the gig was really good when I thought that it wasn't, and on days that I felt I played really well then no comments at all. This has happened so many times that I have long since given up paying any attention to it realizing that actually only I can tell when I am on it or not.
For most people in the audience they are more focused on the vibe than the more muso stuff so if you look like you are enjoying it they pick up on that and start enjoying it more themselves.

Hey Dave B
I've gone through the first 2 sections of your Upper Extensions. I'm taking my time with it because I really want to understand this cool stuff plus I'm a beginner.
As a matter of interest, do you ever treat your extensions as the progression ? So in Section 2, do you ever make your extensions Ab maj, E maj, Eb min, Db maj the progression when you want a progression with complex voicings ?

Yes certainly. It can add a whole new level to thinking about progressions. When playing with a bass player basically you have the choice about which chords you think about, you can state either the original chord or the upper extension chord or any combination of the 2. This really opens the harmonic palette.
If playing by yourself you can easily treat the upper extension as a chord substitution and then play off those, even forgetting about the original changes if you like. It can take a long time to get relaxed doing this as you have to not only be secure in the original sequence but also be aware simultaneously of all the different harmonic possibilities.

That could always be. As a general rule, I feel more on the negative side when I play. I haven't been satistfied, particularly after listening to recordings.

However, since the entire audience was made up of musos, I would say it's a little different. When the other non-piano musicians say they want to play with me, I have a better appreciation of it because there are 4 pianists.

Each of the other pianists have been playing for 20+ years.

So though I don't particularly consider myself better than a mediocre pianist, apparently, relatively speaking, they liked what I was playing more.

I've done 7 of these jams now and I think the perception is changing about my playing because I'm getting better. Everyone else is more static.

Welcome back Dave! I can't tell you how jealous I am. I gotta plan a vacation soon!

This stuff looks interesting. I shall have a listen later tonight.

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It is good you feel you are progressing and good that others are recognizing that also.

However I think having negative feelings when you are actually playing is pretty dangerous, as confidence is really important. Many people are troubled by that little voice they hear in their ears as they are playing that tells them 'that lick was bad' 'oh you aren't going to make that run' 'you should have practiced more so you won't forget the tune' etc. This is bad because you want to be fully in the moment playing music and not concentrating on that useless rubbish. It can be hard to learn to ignore the voice, but necessary.
Afterwards though, when listening back, that is a good time for critical analysis. If you are happy at that point then you are just not listening hard enough, as improvement is always possible.

Thanks Knotty. Vacations are good, but coming home is also good.

I need to reread Werner's "Effortless Mastery".

I know this is an issue because my hands are stiff as rocks when I play. But the good news is that it is less and less bad.

Still there. I know how I play at home so I can tell the difference.

We were doing a Mic test and I was playing Chopin 10/1. That's a good test of the "inner voices" because any kind of tension in it's impossible to play. And it was very difficult to play then.

This is of course the typical musician struggles with the ego and self-consciousness.

But I did manage to do a warmup improv with 2 pianos before people showed up so it helped.

Anybody else experiencing this at this stage?

That is a good book. I remember when I was at college Kenny came by to do a masterclass. I hadn't heard his recordings before that but hearing him play in a small room I could tell that he was an amazing pianist. He did some truly amazing things with instant harmonization.

I am reading 'Free Play, improvisation in life and art' by Nachmanovitch at the moment. I have only just started it but I think it is going to be good. That is unusual for me because I can only think of a couple of books about music that I have thought are good. Jarrett called it "the most important book on improvisation I've yet seen" so it has a lot to live up to.

I too was at a Kenny masterclass and I really admire his playing style. He's on my short list of favorites. He's underappreciated, particularly here in the west coast. He has a lot of free videos that he gives to subscribers (of which I am one) where he conducts more of these masterclasses online.

Although I can't really get into the spirituality of his explanations, at least it is absolutely clear where these ego voices come from and that one needs to train to block them out. Not an easy task obviously.

I have that improvisation book too. I haven't finished it but a notable take-away from the early chapters is that "free improv" is not lacking in structure, which solidifies our practice strategies in jazz.

Jazzwee, glad to hear about your positive experience at the jam session.

Regarding what beeboss said about negativity... this is the reason I stopped playing out after grad school . I read Kenny Werner's book my last year of school and tried to apply it but just couldn't get past all the years of being subjected to competition and criticism in school. About a year and a half ago I got together with some really high end local players to rehearse for a gig, but the day of the gig I basically had a panic attack and backed out. I've since let go of my "identifying" with being a musician and I am learning to appreciate what I can do instead of focusing on what I can't. Long story short, I'm sure I'll play out again once I've distanced myself enough from all the negative thought patterns. I will say though, that Kenny Werner's book was a much needed step in the right direction... without it I'd probably still be beating myself up trying to be something I'm not.

Hey Scott,

If you ever feel like playing in a very relaxed atmosphere with some nice folks, you're welcome to come hang out with us one of those days.

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Wow Scott--I thought I was the only one subject to this. I really appreciated that story. I thought someone at your level (much more advanced than I am) would be beyond that. At least we have the internet to hone our skills without the stress

BTW - one of the guys in the jam actually walked up to me while I was playing piano, and shook my shoulders and said, "relax man, enjoy -- this is jazz!". LOL. I'll never forget that moment because it will remind me of that feeling at the time.

However -- it was still difficult to relax since we were doing an uptempo "Softly as in the morning sunrise". Uptempo = stress However it did make me play less and listen more.

One of the other tunes was Someday My Prince Will Come. It was so uptempo that I could only squeeze in dotted quarters. The Guitar player couldn't even come in!

But I'm happy to say that there were no train wrecks and if anything, I was the one holding the form.

Glad to help. This forum has been a great boost for me.

Speaking of getting physically interrupted while playing... one of my teachers at NIU actually used to stand behind me during big band rehearsal and hit me on the back, hard enough to push me forward, while I was playing trying to get me to "feel it". I didn't feel anything except him hitting me! Needless to say, this didn't help my confidence much.

Sounds good... thanks!

Hi bee
Thanks for your great reply.
At the moment I'm just getting used to the tonality. I think it will take me a little longer to get relaxed even in sounding "in".
But all this cool upper extension stuff is what I aspire to harmonically and melodically, I have dreams of sounding like Sonny Rollins

I remember clearly what Kenny said at his masterclass about people giving themselves a hard time about their playing - "It's not heart surgery, if you mess up nobody dies". That one sentence had a lot of effect on me. I think one has to let go of the idea of sounding good and just get on with the business of having fun and playing music.

Hi Custard, it is important to feel relaxed in the basic tonalities before trying to extend the harmony too much. Go slow and deep.

I couldn't agree more. I spent two whole days (and an evening) doing a Masterclass with KW, we were all stuck out in the sticks in Northern Sweden at a Community College (with bed and board), so I had the opportunity to sit and have lunch and dinner with him. Having just read his book I was not disappointed with his classes. He turned out to be a real showman (as many jazz greats are) and I have used a lot of his ideas in my teaching.
I also really enjoyed getting up on the stage and doing some of the exercises with him (me stage fright? Not. I love getting up on stage, my issue is more that not everyone appreciates what I do there )
But his exercises, his sense of humour, his whole 'menschness', I really am grateful for what he is willing to share.

Concerning this 'seriousness' business. You should see some of the Scandinavians perform, all in black, not a smile for miles.
Jazz IS serious Art. Not entertainment.

Or . . . ?

Of course I've come a long way from when I first read Werner's book since I have less of the "inner voice of negativity".

But I'm finding that there are degrees of this. Whereas the constant self evaluation while playing used to be at 100%, it's probably down to 20% now so it allows me to play.

I now realize that this occurs to me when I play with my teacher. I think it's worst when I play with him. Which makes sense since teachers are there to critique you. So I'm probably doing a self-critique before he even utters a word. Jumping the gun so to speak.

I'm guessing that eliminating this self-critique must be an essential part of being a pro-player. I'll bet that for those of you performing regularly that this percentage is very low.

For me, the only way to eliminate this right now is from preparation. The more prepared I am, the less I worry about the inner voice. When they give me a fresh piece of music at the jam, the inner voice comes back strong...

LOL. What is the expression on your face when you perform?

One of utter despair combined with absolute bliss.

Yes and no. I always have some apprehensiveness before going on stage, I had that as an actor as well, that's part and parcel of being a performer (though some years ago, I froze for 10 mins when I realized that the whole crew was there for me, and me only (a 3 min commercial, me acting out in forest running around shouting . . ), it took a lot of deep breathing and f--k I've got to nail this or I'll never eat lunch in this town again) - the difference is that once one hears one's cue, or the red light comes on (tape's rolling!) it's: go for it.

It's part experience, it's part Sprezzatura with some Grazie and Decoro thrown in.

ha.
The jazz master I can think of who looked serious while playing was Bill Evans. 100% serious yet one knew he was having 100% fun.

Some years old, but a really good interview with Keith Jarrett

Chrisbell. A really good interview it is. And then something more. Thanks. I ordered Testament on the spot.
cubop

That is the only Jarrett interview I have ever read where he talks about other piano players and their importance. Very interesting.

Testament is a great recording I think (but there are no duds in the Jarrett discography imo).