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#1741531 - 08/27/11 12:48 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Yeah Chris, I forgot, Elling changed the title. I saw this live with Kenny Barron on piano.

Anyway, when I was playing Naima, I got accused of just playing scales. Then I had to listen again to some of this kind of music to undertand the purposeness of each and every phrase. Not everyone plays like this. Melodic content is in every line....like Jarrett. Except, Pasqua has more space so the melody lingers.

I heard this on the radio next to Bill Charlap's playing and it showed me the contrast in style.

This kind of melodic playing reminds me of Herbie's solo on Dolphin Dance. Every phrase is so memorable.

Anyway, that's the challenge to myself this time around. Avoiding what Scott Colleta may refer to as 'Wandering' smile
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#1742167 - 08/28/11 05:05 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Here's a rendition of Body and Soul with a modified melody...mistakes made but I only record once. I've avoided this tune for so long because it seemed hard to come up with something passable. But it seems to come easier now. All comments welcome.

Body and Soul
http://www.box.net/shared/st2kadn7833h8h0m0z7l
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#1742623 - 08/29/11 01:20 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
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Loc: So. California
No comments? Anyway, I had to get adjusted to the feel of the backing rhythm so I was off time playing the head. I suppose that was easy to fix by re-recording but I thought it was better to be brutally honest about what I do.
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#1742726 - 08/29/11 04:49 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
chrisbell Offline
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Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1332
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
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#1743200 - 08/30/11 11:53 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
chrisbell Offline
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Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1332
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Here's a rendition of Body and Soul with a modified melody...

Nicely played. But, I feel you're too much either on top or ahead of the beat. I would like to hear a version were you laid back a bit.

Also, I don't think/feel it's necessary to play/state every chord, especially during the solo
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#1743552 - 08/30/11 11:26 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Great comments Chris. I need to work at this tempo more. My discomfort shows. When I learned this particular styling it was intended to be played in double time latin feel. So at the beginning I was doing that and it didn't sound right. But I didn't do another take to correct. I think it's always good to freeze the moment so I get maximum revelation of all weaknesses.

Thanks!
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#1743589 - 08/31/11 01:36 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1728
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
I liked it jw. Your time, use of space and overall phrasing are all getting better. Some nice LH voicings too--I recognize some of those sounds from AP ... wink Nothing wrong with that though. cool

Good job.
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#1743663 - 08/31/11 06:19 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: Dave Ferris]
custard apple Offline
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Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2295
Loc: Sydney
Hi Dave F
I just went into your Soundcloud and listened to your Days of Wine and Roses which I've just finished studying as part of my Joy of Improvisation course. I really liked your choice of voicings which sounded nice and interesting and modern, and I also liked the movement between your voicings.

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#1743787 - 08/31/11 11:53 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
Jazz+ Offline
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Nice "Body and Soul", JazzWee. What are some of those AP voicings?
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#1743813 - 08/31/11 12:35 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Thanks Dave and Jazz+! You're both very kind to my one take. This is definitely copied stylistically from AP's album since that's how I learned it smile That's why the melody is different too. Unfortunately, I'm a LONG LONG way from coming close to the way he plays it. My only immediate goal on a first try was to see if I can play it with some good melodies.

Jazz+, the biggest thing is probably the first two chords. In the original changes that's 4 chords. I only play two | Eb-7 | AbMaj7(+5) |

I was also taught to play the bridge with Coltrane changes but my backing track (iRealB) plays the regular changes so I wasn't able to do that here.

I learned this a long time ago but was never able to play it well so I gave up. If I get this perfected then I plan on playing it as a trio at the end of September.
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#1743929 - 08/31/11 04:08 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
beeboss Offline
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Registered: 07/18/09
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Loc: uk south
Sounding good on Body and Soul JW.
What are the coltrane changes for the bridge?
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#1743932 - 08/31/11 04:11 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
beeboss Offline
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Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1194
Loc: uk south

Here is an interesting video of one of englands best young pianists demonstrating the elements of one of his tunes and then playing it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/video/2011/aug/18/gwilym-simcock-these-good-days-video
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#1743942 - 08/31/11 04:26 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Thanks Beeboss. I'll check my notes later but the Coltrane changes are like Giant Steps changes. Maybe that's why I never tried playing this tune before because that intimidated me at the time smile

I was told you can call the tune as 'Body and Soul - Coltrane Changes' and supposedly people know what that means. Apparently not so common.

Speaking of changes -- I've been playing Footprints with chromatic chord motions like Herbie and it really opens it up to some interesting harmonic possibilities.
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#1743949 - 08/31/11 04:38 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: beeboss

Here is an interesting video of one of englands best young pianists demonstrating the elements of one of his tunes and then playing it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/video/2011/aug/18/gwilym-simcock-these-good-days-video


I like how he stepped on the pedal and strummed the keys. I was wondering how he picked out the notes while he was strumming. It was like a new discovery for me. smile
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#1743959 - 08/31/11 05:01 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
beeboss Offline
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Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1194
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: jazzwee

I was told you can call the tune as 'Body and Soul - Coltrane Changes' and supposedly people know what that means. Apparently not so common.



ok I got it, just forgot momentarily

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtr4XQGcSDY

So many alternate changes to these tunes
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#1743969 - 08/31/11 05:12 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1332
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: beeboss
Sounding good on Body and Soul JW.
What are the coltrane changes for the bridge?

DMa7 F7 BbMa7 Db7| GbMa7 A7 DMa7|
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#1743970 - 08/31/11 05:13 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1728
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: jazzwee

Speaking of changes -- I've been playing Footprints with chromatic chord motions like Herbie and it really opens it up to some interesting harmonic possibilities.


Speaking of Footprints--Jimmy Rowles showed me these alternate changes to the ambiguous bar 13 section a long time ago

|F#m11 B7 | Fm11 Bb13+11 | Cm11 ||
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#1743972 - 08/31/11 05:13 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: beeboss


That's a pretty fast version isn't it? And McCoy Tyner is doing some interesting chord movements on the A section.

Do we call that the McCoy Tyner Changes? LOL.

"Body and Soul! McCoy changes on 'A', Coltrane Changes on 'B'! ", Whew!

As if the tune isn't difficult enough originally...
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#1743976 - 08/31/11 05:19 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
chrisbell Offline
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Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1332
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
What I find interesting is to solo on these changes but not tell the bass player.
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#1743989 - 08/31/11 05:44 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: Dave Ferris]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Originally Posted By: jazzwee

Speaking of changes -- I've been playing Footprints with chromatic chord motions like Herbie and it really opens it up to some interesting harmonic possibilities.


Speaking of Footprints--Jimmy Rowles showed me these alternate changes to the ambiguous bar 13 section a long time ago

|F#m11 B7 | Fm11 Bb13+11 | Cm11 ||


I heard too that it can be played as a pair of ii/V's. Thanks for posting this. For the longest time I just played these as |D7 | Db7 |
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#1744263 - 09/01/11 03:06 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: custard apple]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1728
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: custard apple
Hi Dave F
I just went into your Soundcloud and listened to your Days of Wine and Roses which I've just finished studying as part of my Joy of Improvisation course. I really liked your choice of voicings which sounded nice and interesting and modern, and I also liked the movement between your voicings.


Thanks ca, much appreciated. I have a chart somewhere around here..if I can dig it up....

Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
[quote=jazzwee]
Speaking of changes -- I've been playing Footprints with chromatic chord motions like Herbie and it really opens it up to some interesting harmonic possibilities.


Speaking of Footprints--Jimmy Rowles showed me these alternate changes to the ambiguous bar 13 section a long time ago

|F#m11 B7 | Fm11 Bb13+11 | Cm11 ||


My pleasure. I remember when he showed me that, God it must've been almost 30 years ago now. It was like this new harmonic revelation came over me.... laugh
One of the most under-rated cats in Jazz history for sure. He was a walking encyclopedia of tunes and alternate changes.

The melody voices real nice with those chords too.
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#1744283 - 09/01/11 04:35 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1332
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Ahh alternate changes on bar 17-20, nice Dave.

I must confess that I love the Dsus13 going to Db13(b5) [two bars each] which I play with my trio.

But your suggestion Dave got me experimenting, so next rehearsal I'll give these a try.
| F#m7 | F13(#11) | D7(#5, #9) | Db13(b5) |
Hmm maybe I can have both my choices . . . one chorus head play original, repeat head and play new changes . . . .


I spent an evening with Jimmy Rowles when I was 22, I knew Red Mitchell [he was a sort of mentor for me then] and he invited me to have dinner with them. So there I was, me and two jazz giants, they ate, jammed a bit, talked jazz and . . man the stories! Both were really nice to the shy and dumbstruck person that was me. At that time I was so into the whole fusion thing that this "old" thing called Standard Jazz (what you mean, play an 'old' song??!!?? with II V I??!!! Boring! Bring me a mini-moog with a Rhodes and a distortion box and I'll show you a solo!! - ah well - little did I know . . . ) was really far from my thoughts, but I really dug Jimmy's sense of swing and his chord changes.


Edited by chrisbell (09/01/11 05:11 AM)
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#1744308 - 09/01/11 06:18 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: Dave Ferris]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2295
Loc: Sydney
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Originally Posted By: custard apple
Hi Dave F
I just went into your Soundcloud and listened to your Days of Wine and Roses which I've just finished studying as part of my Joy of Improvisation course. I really liked your choice of voicings which sounded nice and interesting and modern, and I also liked the movement between your voicings.


Thanks ca, much appreciated. I have a chart somewhere around here..if I can dig it up....



Hi Dave F
That's very nice of you. No rush, whenever you have time. Thanks again !

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#1744470 - 09/01/11 12:24 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
Jazz+ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 838
Loc: Banned
Dave,

Interesting accompaniment on "Whisper Not".
What's the secret to your left hand playing there?

J+
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#1744519 - 09/01/11 01:40 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jjo Offline
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Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 625
Loc: Chicago
On Footprints, there is a biography of Wayne Shorter called Footprints. There is a photograph in there of Wayne's original handwritten chart for the tune, which:
1. Has an introduction that's never played (and isn't anything too exciting).
2. In the measures discussed above, his chords are F#-(b5), F7(b5), E7(#9#11), A7(can't remember the alts, but #9 makes sense).
3. Most curiously, in the very last measure, the base line is altered to play E natural, making it C Maj for that one measure. Wayne does not appear to play it this way on his own recording on Adam's Apple, although it actually sounds kinda cool.

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#1744537 - 09/01/11 01:58 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jjo]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: jjo
2. In the measures discussed above, his chords are F#-(b5), F7(b5), E7(#9#11), A7(can't remember the alts, but #9 makes sense).


This is what's shown on my iRealB app so I've been using this recently. It appears on the app as

| F#-7b5 F7#11 | E7Alt A7Alt |

Although my teacher said it should be thought of as 2 ii/V's. But we didn't have time to discuss what the actual changes were.

Now I don't know which is the best sounding one. May have to play with voicings here.

But the neat part from listening to Herbie is the chromatic movements on C-11 and F-11. For example on the F-11 section, I would do a chromatic | F-11 | E-11 | Eb-11 | D-11 | although I don't stick to the bars.

On the C-11 sections, I go up and down a half step. But I made of mistake of trying this during the head and it sounded bad...:)

This tune has a lot more potential than I ever imagined and my bass player loves this as a groove tune.
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#1744746 - 09/01/11 07:33 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1194
Loc: uk south
I was just doing an arrangement of Embraceable you which I though I would post for your perusal


http://soundcloud.com/david-beebee/em-braceable-nord-stage-2mp-3/s-LKc50



I tried to not do the usual head-solo-head thing and rather interspersed the bits of melody with some freeish improvisation

comments welcomed


Edited by beeboss (09/01/11 09:14 PM)
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#1744753 - 09/01/11 07:50 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Beeboss, link doesn't work...
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#1744794 - 09/01/11 09:11 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1194
Loc: uk south


Edited by beeboss (09/01/11 09:14 PM)
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#1744920 - 09/02/11 04:13 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2295
Loc: Sydney
Hi Dave
I'm ashamed to admit that I don't know Embraceable You frown but I listened to your Tenderly. Your head, improv, comping and last chorus sound wonderful. It's great how you tackle hard songs such as this and Very Early in such a cool way.

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