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Nice to hear all the tributes to Sam Rivers.

Scep, I like the electric. I'm thinking of doing more electric with my trio. Are you playing some lower voicings/bass notes with your left or is your bass player playing harmonies? Seems like a lot of stuff going on in the bass register. Sounds cool.

Jazzwee, nice sounding keyboard. It's good to hear you play solo. I think your doing pretty good with it. Solo playing is great for working on time I think.

There was a short discussion about gigs awhile ago. Anybody have any advice on scouting out a regular restaurant gig... weekly or a couple times a month? I've always been a side man so I've never really had to get the gigs, but now my trio is ready to start playing out. We've got our demo in cd format and on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EhXTqfnRPM).

I'm thinking about going in to some restaurant/bars for a beer during the afternoons just to talk to some bar owners to see if they might be interested in live music... particularly places that don't have it already but have a good atmosphere for it. I was also thinking of sending emails to some venues with a link to my website and demo. I'd like to avoid dropping of boat loads of demos at random places, but rather pick some key spots and pursue those more diligently. Any thoughts?

Thanks Schep, appreciated. I enjoyed your version with the rhodes too. Your vamp at the top, F to Gb is how I hear that too.

Maybe I posted this over in the member recordings but can't remember for sure. If I did apologies to those who've heard it already. Yet another trio version of Beatrice. The bass and drums are a little far back in relation to the piano, but hey better then the opposite huh ?

http://www.divshare.com/download/15074570-4d6

OT gear talk alert-

After about a dozen gigs with varying levels of players, rooms from ridiculously bad acoustics to excellent sounding, crowds from being total cretins yelling and talking to very attentive, listening audience--I can recommend the Nord Piano without hesitation for a lightweight DP.
This is my second NP. I was among the doubters for a long time. However with the newer samples and long release feature, extensive use live and one time live in the studio, I feel it's greatly improved in the last year since I sent mine back to Clavia after the beta testing I did for them.

JW got an excellent price on his from a different source I would use. PM me for my connection...some of you probably already know who it is. I just hate seeing people pay too much for these things..

opps almost forgot..I was talking so much...

Chris, I like your Beatrice as more of a Ballad feel. That's very cool, really nice playing. I'm going to start experimenting with it like that myself. Thanks for the idea. Going to the Dmaj7 as opposed to the minor at 3:38 was a real nice effect, I liked that.

Nice demo Scott! Nowadays it such an easy way to spread the word.

As far as booking gigs, I've been very successful at this by doing marketing at these venues that already have regular entertainment. We proved to be better and displaced another performer. They gave us one shot and the crowd was pleased and they booked us for the year (and now next year too).

This one major venue lead to other gigs and now the casuals are flowing in from people who have seen us.

The advantage on my end may be that I had so many contacts already in a non-music context and so I'm able to insert a discussion of entertainment when an event occured.

Restaurants/Bars unfortunately don't hardly pay. Lots of people here play at these types of places for free (tips only). So it's negative cash flow. Also they expect you to bring your own crowd.

I pay my regular band members.

Now I have not been successful yet in playing as a trio. In order to market the band, I have to have a singer (changing), and mix up the tunes a lot (med swing and latin and more groove based) to broaden the appeal. Horns are included. And we don't play Giant Steps...

So the people get good entertainment at a moderate price. I've lowered the price of some of the performances in exchange for long term regularity (it's good to know their budgets in advance).

The good news is that I've kept the band's identity as a jazz group and that's all we play. Though we try be 'reachable' (like a Kind of Blue vibe).

Thanks Scott. The electric is a Roland 700nx that I'm borrowing. The sounds you hear in the bass are open voiced sixths (ie F on the bass and my lh just plays C and A on top)
I kind of like the effect open voices shifting around in parallel motion on tunes that have semitone shifts.

RE: BEATRICE VERSIONS

Scep, I enjoyed listening to your EP version of Beatrice. Really good lines in there. Very good tempo too and solid time. A deserving tribute to Sam Rivers. One of the best things you've played.

Chris - it was great to hear your version again. I've enjoyed it the first time and still had a thrill listening to it again.

(Dave's version I've responded in another thread).

I posted this in digital so might as well have it here as well. Have at it on musical content. Yeah -- more space I have to say though that tonally, the Nord makes me sound good. This full bodied sound should cut through my amplified band unlike my Roland.

Stella by Starlight
http://soundcloud.com/jazzwee/stella-by-starlight-nord-piano

This one is an excerpt and I switch samples for each one, starting with the Steinway D, then Bosie, then Yamaha C7.

Solar 3 Samples
http://soundcloud.com/jazzwee/solar-3-samples-nord-piano-88

you seem confortable with the new gear JW. You guys make me want one too.
Though my wife and yours would probably get along because back then when I looked at it, she simply said "You can't go with a red piano" :-)

Something interesting happened at the jam last Tuesday. I was feeling quite good about the whole thing, we played some trio with a decent bass player and a great drummer, and the stuff was really swinging and happening.
At the break, some guy in a "Jazz Meetup" (I didn't know there was such thing) came out to talk to me. Said, "yeah I played some piano, I'm trying to get back into it. How do you approach jazz?".
I said simply "You know, practice and listen". That's about as good an advice as I can give in 5 minutes."
But then he said "Don't you look at chords and try to land on the notes of the chords".
I said "Chord tones? Nah forget all this stuff. Just play music. Listen and imitate."

I felt like that story in Metaphors for the musician, where the guy asks the pianist how to approach it, and he gets 3 stories from 3 pianists;
- play scales
- play chords
- play what you hear

I think I'd make a pretty horrible teacher :-)

Is your middle name Yoda?, but you did miss an opportunity to become someone's teacher.

Funny!
btw, thanks for those changes on Miss Jones.

Thanks Dave.
Yeah the Dmaj7 just popped into my head . . . glad it works.

Jazzwee, thanks for the advice about getting gigs.

Your Stella sounds good, but I still think your lines aren't suggesting the changes enough. Maybe as you get more into your sound it will work out, but I would still like to be able to hear the changes in the lines without the support of the LH and bass. On Solar, all the pianos sound good to me. I think you're doing a better job of capturing the changes in your lines here, but it's still kind of vague at times to me.

I'd like to explore that some more. I'm certainly not aware of it as I play. To my ears (as I play), I'm stating the changes, minus some imperfections of course.

But my teacher has not ever mentioned once in recent times that I'm not stating the changes so perhaps you'd like to clarify how strictly you are evaluating that? All downbeats?

Nowadays, I'm thinking more about some melody. I am actually trying to get away from just stating the changes. If done correctly, I should do both (unless I'm purposely reharming -- which I'm not in this case).

If you're hearing something specific, maybe it's some bad habit I'm developing that I'm not aware of. Maybe point out a specific time in the recording so I have something to grasp. (Please don't transcribe -- I feel so guilty whenever you do that since it takes so much of your time...).

BTW - some weeks ago, you said the same thing about Bye Bye Blackbird and I realize that I didn't know the changes well enough to fit it. So in retrospect, the changes were more difficult than I imagined and so I wasn't sticking to the form as I should have.

I think your melodies are nice and I can hear how they fit the changes, as long as the LH or bass is there. What I'm thinking of is more places where the lines touch base with the fundamental chord tones and/or rest on them. So if your chord is Bbmaj, any note in the Bb scale sounds nice, but if you give a little more emphasis on the basic tones, Bb-D-F, the harmony is more present. I guess I would say its not that you need to do this on every chord, but just frequently enough to keep from straying too far for too long. So if you're playing over a 2-5-1... say Cm-F7-Bb, you might start off with a few solid chord tones in a row like Eb, G, C and then run scale notes and chromatic stuff until you get to the Bbmaj, where you would then put in Bb and D or D and F on some strong beats and rest on one of those notes. I think about at least one target note per chord or every other chord. And by target, I mean a strong basic note like 1,3, or 5 that falls on a basic beat, like 1 or 3. It's hard to explain without playing .

I really like Jimmy Amadie's book "Jazz Improv" for explaining this. You can read alot of it in the "look inside" feature on Amazon to get the idea of it.

http://www.amazon.com/Jazz-Improv-H...;ie=UTF8&qid=1325189767&sr=1-1#_

Scott, this is no different than the Forward Motion book, but I would probably say 3 and 7 have greater weight than 1 and 5.

Now I subscribe to what you say but at this point, I'm relying on the melody to fall on these tones. It is my intent at least though I don't consciously track it anymore. If you notice a specific time when I deviate, please alert me. It's possible that a muscle memory is overriding what my ear should dictate.

I'll check out Forward Motion. I would still suggest looking over the Amadie book closely. It might bring a different light to some things.

I disagree about 3 and 7 having more weight than 1 and 5. Perhaps on dominant 7 chords, but not on major, minor etc. Have you studied much classical theory? In particular scale tone relationships... tonic, supertonic, mediant, etc. Also, functional diatonic harmony? Jazz is obviously more complex than this, but those foundations are still in there and should be intuitive I think.

I can't really give a specific example in your playing of what I mean without transcribing and re-writing. And even that doesn't quite get it. It's like trying to take a story that you wrote and by rearranging and changing a few words, make the story different. When what needs to be done, is new ideas need to supplement the existing story to make it flow better. Of course, in the end it's your story so you tell it how you want. I'm just giving my input about how I understand things.

But 1 and 5 are already being played by the Rhythm section (5 being implied as an overtone always) so they contribute nothing to harmony. So my teacher would tell me not to emphasize the 1.

And here's where we may differ. On a minor chord or half dim, I look at 11 as being significant as a chord tone. On a dominant chord, I don't place a value on any particular chord tone since I may be emphasizing an alteration.

Similarly, on a I chord, I may look at the #11 as a chord tone. Not always.

So this is why I'm interested in a specific in my playing that I can focus on, just in case we're not looking at it the same way.

My interpretations of chord tones above are of the more "modern" approach BTW, not strictly bebop.

I realize that some of the other guys here don't subscribe to this chord tone logic. In fact Knotty just referred to it. But my teacher is quick to note if I pick a wrong note on a downbeat (accidents aside). So he makes this distinction as a separator between the top players and the average jazz player.

>> I realize that some of the other guys here don't subscribe to this chord tone logic. In fact Knotty just referred to it.
I just don't recommend taking this approach as a learning mechanism. That's very different. I'm very convinced that ending your lines on the root of the tonal center is a very powerful way to close a line, for example. It makes sense and helps everyone know where you are. But that stuff should come out of listening, not out of practicing it. That's my point of view.

>> But my teacher is quick to note if I pick a wrong note on a downbeat (accidents aside).
This I do not understand. The concept of wrong note on down beat. I just don't understand what defines a wrong note here. I think i'm in a completely different camp. The notes don't matter to me, it's the lines that do. Lines are made of phrases. Phrases are typically 2 to 8 bars long and lines are basically choruses. Lines are ideas. Phrases get you to that idea.

I actually hate the term "Playing the changes". I think it's really key to play the tune.

Without putting words in Scott's mouth, perhaps what he is saying is that if you played a solo with no LH and no backing track, would we recognize the tune? It's hard to tell.

Do we have a Yoda emoticon over here?

Knotty, there's no doubt that there's a philosophical difference here. In another forum, the question was raised to jazzers: "Is there really a wrong note?".

As Aeborsold said somewhere, the right note note is only a half step away so in his mind there is no wrong note.

Scott and I subscribe to another notion that strong solos have no wrong notes. Thus saying that "There are Wrong Notes". It's a specific discipline and I grant you that it's hard to do and isn't always clear.

Certainly on a cursory level, Miles Davis would have too many wrong notes because he would ride on a note over several chords using an extension like 9 or 13. But here, he's overlaying a more global picture using common tones. So, no, I don't believe it absolute either. Then there's the intentional reharm. So I've since retooled my explanation to "intent". Your choice of the note must not be an accident. It must not be just guided by muscle memory and it should be a musical decision, whatever that might be.

Scott is probably more black and white on this than I am because he's a bebop player. But that's because Bebop, was black and white on this rule. That's what bebop is and the justification for the bebop scale.

Now I'm not particularly heavy on Bebop so I guess I can meander on any rule I care to follow at that moment

And I do know the difference between "practicing" and "performing". During performance, I have no idea what I'm doing...it's just happening.