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#1754899 - 09/18/11 07:29 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: Scott Coletta]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1193
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: Scott Coletta


Beeboss, do you have a recording of Green Dolphin St. in 7? I'd like to hear how you do that!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ygsHr27kS0

Sounds a bit out of date to me now but I guess that is a good thing.
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#1754906 - 09/18/11 07:41 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Dave F., I've watched you play in person and discussed some voicing things and so perhaps I can add my simplistic observations for Jazz+.

From what I've seen, your focus on voicings is what goes in the bass. And like you said, it's an experimental thing and changes the sound (I guess it's the Overtone thing). I believe once you showed or discussed how you put the 6 on the bottom in one case which obviously changed the whole sound.

The Dobbins book was not a clear read on this. It was more like a guide to experimentation so I can see where this almost has to be a personal experience to try things out. I got the book but I didn't really know how to proceed.

Perhaps the best way to understand, or share your experience Dave, is maybe to discuss a specific, like what particular voicing you just on a particular bar (if you can remember). It's my observation that your talent as a player is deeply rooted in your very advanced handling of voicings. I'm surprised to hear you've only worked on this for 10 years. So when I first met you 5 years back, you were only halfway through this process?

You mentioned before that you heard my teacher's voicing in my playing. I understand what he does. He's actually pretty precise and specific about his choices and directly tied to the chord quality. Often it's a direct understanding of what he wants to reharmonize so he makes the choice in advance. Not so much from a trial and error experimental approach which can reveal some unusual combinations. So my own knowledge base of the variations in voicings in what you do is very light.

So when I get a chance I will ask about a specific bar. That way I can learn a little more.
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#1754910 - 09/18/11 07:49 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Scott, after praising your rhythm section on Green Dolphin St and Stella, I found myself rhythmically confused by your drummer in Well You Needn't. Wow, those complex sub-rhythms in the beginning really throw off the groove. I don't even feel that counter rhythms felt in the groove. It felt better later on. You played great though.
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#1754926 - 09/18/11 08:05 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
Cee Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 29
Loc: Timisoara, Romania
Oh I would love to take a stab at that 7/4 green dolphin if you are willing to share the bass+drums+perc tracks! smile


Edited by Cee (09/18/11 08:05 PM)
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#1754932 - 09/18/11 08:12 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: Cee]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1193
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: Cee
Oh I would love to take a stab at that 7/4 green dolphin if you are willing to share the bass+drums+perc tracks! smile


Sure, if I can find it. I'll look tomorrow.
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#1755337 - 09/19/11 02:08 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1193
Loc: uk south

Here is the backing track for green dolphin st in 7 for anyone who wants to give it a go

http://www.divshare.com/download/15758753-f65
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#1756308 - 09/21/11 01:47 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: chrisbell]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: chrisbell
From the same gig, my own tune WJR


What a beautiful tune Chris! Loved it. I did want to hear the solo though over the whole thing rather than just the vamp because it would have made for some really great harmony.

I wanted to tell the inattentive audience to shut up smile
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#1756348 - 09/21/11 03:33 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1332
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Originally Posted By: chrisbell
From the same gig, my own tune WJR
What a beautiful tune Chris! Loved it. I did want to hear the solo though over the whole thing rather than just the vamp because it would have made for some really great harmony. I wanted to tell the inattentive audience to shut up smile

Thanks. I'm pretty proud of it myself. smile
Interesting that you want to hear a solo on the whole piece; I used to do that, then I made the decision to only solo on the A-part, I felt that soloing on both the A and B "wore out" the tune. In one way I like just going into the A-parts harmonies (its all modal, albeit based in the Renaissance).

Here's a version with solos on the whole tune.
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#1756351 - 09/21/11 03:42 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
I was right. I liked A+B more. This was very nice thumb
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#1756451 - 09/21/11 08:38 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1332
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
I humbly bow to your superior taste oh Mastar Ivory Tickler!
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I never play anything the same way once.

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#1758247 - 09/23/11 10:54 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
Jazz+ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 838
Loc: Banned
Hi Dave Ferris,

Was that reharmonization of Bouncing With Bud? What changes are you playing ?

Thanks
J+
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#1758352 - 09/24/11 06:34 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1332
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Solar - Live@Shalimar, Stockholm, Sweden
Another bassist, another drummer and yet again another digital piano - note to self: "do not stomp your foot when the recorder is on the floor!!"
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#1758601 - 09/24/11 07:25 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: chrisbell]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1728
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: chrisbell
Solar - Live@Shalimar, Stockholm, Sweden
Another bassist, another drummer and yet again another digital piano - note to self: "do not stomp your foot when the recorder is on the floor!!"


Hi Chris. Enjoyed it man. I don't mean to come off as a hard ass but again I feel you are not getting adequate support from the bass & drums. I would really like to hear you with a couple of guys that were a notch above where you're at right now.
I don't know you of course, but I have a feeling you would sound more free and creative then you do now. At times you sound a little forced (which I can understand when the pulse is not right-in fact I feel myself forcing under the same conditions ). I think you could leave more space in between your phrases and try to give each phrase or line more of a meaning or statement...think more melody and a less linear/scale "sound'. It could be you're leaving less space because instinctively, or perhaps even self-consciously, you feel the time lagging and you're just trying to keep things moving along comfortably...I can totally relate to that. I hope this all makes some sense.

You play really nice--I like a lot of those 16th triplet to eight note things..I do a lot of that myself. It's hard to pull off technically and time wise. You're in the pocket with that for sure. But again, I can feel you digging in but the support is not there. I may be way off the mark in my observations but it's honestly what I'm hearing is going on.
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#1758610 - 09/24/11 07:40 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: Jazz+]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1728
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: Jazz+
Hi Dave Ferris,

Was that reharmonization of Bouncing With Bud? What changes are you playing ?

Thanks
J+


Hey J+

It wasn't a conscious or pre-planned reharm per se. Like I tried to explain in that other really long post--I pretty much let my fingers and ears dictate where I'm going. I think in places I used some pedal tones, maybe some triads over different bass notes, played with the inversions of the chords but basically it's the changes. And I was mentally visualizing the changes when I was blowing-the "other stuff" just kinda crept in.

The fact that I was doing it on a digital piano affected the end result too of course. I fit certain portions of the tune to the sonorities and keyboard feeling of the CP300. In a lot of ways it's a compromise from playing on a real acoustic of course --mostly from a technical standpoint-but in other ways there are sounds from the Yamaha that open up and stimulate other areas.

If somebody wants to transcribe it, I'd love to see what I was doing myself.... laugh
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#1758619 - 09/24/11 07:56 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: chrisbell]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1728
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
I'm going to post this REALLY lo-fi recording of Solar from the early 2000s..maybe around 2002 or 2003 can't remember. This was long before quality digital hand held Zoom/Sony recorders hit the market. So if you wanna have ANY semblance of bass you're gonna have to use phones. The sound is VERY ragged, drums are overpowering in places, but the interplay in places I feel is pretty cool. The bass player is Chris Symer and drummer is Michael Stephens. So enough disclaimers..

Solar
http://www.box.net/files#/files/0/f/0/1/f_943922657
_________________________
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2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha CP5, CP4, Nord Piano 2
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#1758758 - 09/25/11 03:57 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: chrisbell]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: chrisbell
Solar - Live@Shalimar, Stockholm, Sweden
Another bassist, another drummer and yet again another digital piano - note to self: "do not stomp your foot when the recorder is on the floor!!"


Very nice rendition Chris. I particularly liked your tone. I'm playing Solar at a gig next week so I'm sure I'll be the subject of criticism too when I post that. smile

Definitely a non-swinging drummer there my friend. He reminded me of my drummer problems in the past. Too complex playing but missing the basic swing pulse. But I didn't feel that you lost your groove or swing though at any point though.

I don't know what it is about this tune but it has a tendency of promoting a linear approach to lines. I actually actively tried to modify that when practicing this tune last week. So I understand what Dave F. is commenting about.

We'll see how I do with this.
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#1758759 - 09/25/11 04:00 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7060
Loc: So. California
Got Tickets for Keith Jarrett Trio!!!!!!! Oct 26! (UCLA Royce Hall)

I don't know how I missed this. Just discovered at the last minute. Few seats left.

Was it at the start of the year that I paid like $120 for a KJ ticket and I forgot all about it? GRRRRRRR!

So no more screw ups this time. Apparently this is one of only a handful of trio concerts he's doing.
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#1758770 - 09/25/11 05:10 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: Dave Ferris]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1332
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Hi Chris. Enjoyed it man. I don't mean to come off as a hard ass but again I feel you are not getting adequate support from the bass & drums. I would really like to hear you with a couple of guys that were a notch above where you're at right now.
So would I smile
No you don't come across as a hard-ass, I appreciate you taking the time to listen AND to post your comments.

And thank you for confirming my own feelings about my playing, your comments make totally sense. I have a tendency to dig in and push too hard, and as you acutely observed; I do instinctively feel the need to "keep time" when I feel the drummer/bassist is off. But it's also due to my in-experience in playing jazz piano, still working on it - and enjoying the hard work!
So thank you for your honesty, it's much appreciated!
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#1758773 - 09/25/11 05:13 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1332
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: jazzwee

Very nice rendition Chris. I particularly liked your tone. I'm playing Solar at a gig next week so I'm sure I'll be the subject of criticism too when I post that. smile

Thanks JW, I'll look forward to hearing your take on it.

Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Got Tickets for Keith Jarrett Trio!!!!!!! Oct 26! (UCLA Royce Hall)

Oh I'm so envious!

BTW: on the topic of Jarrett, I'm producing (as well as recording/mixing) a record with Jarrett's former bassist; Palle Danielsson (it'll be a piano/bass duo - Palle has a jazz pianist sister and the timing and interplay they have between them . . . whew!) I'm looking forward to bugging Palle with a question or two about playing with Keith.
"yes, Belonging is all first takes, though I think one tune was a second take" "playing with Keith is like grabbing a tiger by its tail, you just have to hang on and not let go".
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#1758787 - 09/25/11 06:00 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: chrisbell]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1193
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: chrisbell


BTW: on the topic of Jarrett, I'm producing (as well as recording/mixing) a record with Jarrett's former bassist; Palle Danielsson (it'll be a piano/bass duo - Palle has a jazz pianist sister and the timing and interplay they have between them . . . whew!) I'm looking forward to bugging Palle with a question or two about playing with Keith.
"yes, Belonging is all first takes, though I think one tune was a second take" "playing with Keith is like grabbing a tiger by its tail, you just have to hang on and not let go".


Wow, lucky you. I would just love to be in a room with Palle playing, one of my fave players.
I have heard that they didn't even rehearse for that album, don't know if it is true though.
There are some brief clips on the 'art of improvisation' dvd with Palle and Jon talking about Jarrett, and Jarrett talking about how he wrote the music for the band.
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#1758788 - 09/25/11 06:01 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: Dave Ferris]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1193
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
I'm going to post this REALLY lo-fi recording of Solar from the early 2000s..maybe around 2002 or 2003 can't remember. This was long before quality digital hand held Zoom/Sony recorders hit the market. So if you wanna have ANY semblance of bass you're gonna have to use phones. The sound is VERY ragged, drums are overpowering in places, but the interplay in places I feel is pretty cool. The bass player is Chris Symer and drummer is Michael Stephens. So enough disclaimers..

Solar
http://www.box.net/files#/files/0/f/0/1/f_943922657


Can't hear it Dave, it says I need to log in.
_________________________
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#1758793 - 09/25/11 06:54 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1332
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: beeboss
Wow, lucky you. I would just love to be in a room with Palle playing, one of my fave players. I have heard that they didn't even rehearse for that album, don't know if it is true though. There are some brief clips on the 'art of improvisation' dvd with Palle and Jon talking about Jarrett, and Jarrett talking about how he wrote the music for the band.


Yes lucky me. laugh

I'm also lucky because Monica Dominique (his sister) is a great pianist (and a 'bad' Hammond player check out (from the 70's): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHx19XpDwrQ) as well as a magnificent jazz composer/arranger. She has a one piano-four hands duo with her husband (and if I may toodle my own horn: they have an album (standards, classical, pop) that I've recorded/produced out check -out here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004VEM16C/ref=dm_sp_alb?ie=UTF8&qid=1316947718&sr=8-81

Re: Belonging:
They did two gigs before the recording, one in Germany and then one in Norway, where Manfred E suggested "let's record an album". As the quote above according to Palle: no rehearsals, first takes (except maybe one which is a second take).

I'll be vloging the two days in the studio and posting the snippets to YouTube, so I'll let you guys in on the pre-takes.
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#1758812 - 09/25/11 08:38 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: chrisbell]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1193
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: chrisbell

Re: Belonging:
They did two gigs before the recording, one in Germany and then one in Norway, where Manfred E suggested "let's record an album". As the quote above according to Palle: no rehearsals, first takes (except maybe one which is a second take).

I'll be vloging the two days in the studio and posting the snippets to YouTube, so I'll let you guys in on the pre-takes.


Incredible. I guess when you can play like that there is no need to rehearse.
There is an amazing gig on youtube...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYCpl2lKlj8
I am guessing that this is recorded after the album because they stretch out on the tunes so much more.

Look forward to hearing your snippets.
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#1758819 - 09/25/11 09:01 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
KlinkKlonk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 355
chris is that tommy körberg on perc?!

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#1758823 - 09/25/11 09:34 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: KlinkKlonk]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1332
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: KlinkKlonk
chris is that tommy körberg on perc?!

Oh yes. The side-burns, the hair, that 70's puffy shirt! smile
(so i guess you have some connection with Scandinavia?)

The band was called Solar Plexus, check out their other stuff, that band ruled!
Stravinsky, folk music, jazz, blues, classical - listen to their version of Handel.
There's a whole cult round the first album.
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#1758825 - 09/25/11 09:37 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1332
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: beeboss
Incredible. I guess when you can play like that there is no need to rehearse.
There is an amazing gig on youtube...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYCpl2lKlj8
I am guessing that this is recorded after the album because they stretch out on the tunes so much more.

Yes, the YouTube flick is recorded two years after the Belonging album was recorded, it just shows you what two years of playing together develops a band.
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

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#1758829 - 09/25/11 09:45 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: chrisbell]
Scott Coletta Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/07/11
Posts: 514
Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: chrisbell
Solar - Live@Shalimar, Stockholm, Sweden
Another bassist, another drummer and yet again another digital piano - note to self: "do not stomp your foot when the recorder is on the floor!!"


Nice stuff Chris! I agree with Dave that some more supportive players might be good, but I know that can be hard to come by sometimes. It seems to me like you're wanting to push harder and faster than what the drums and bass are. I will say though, that for the most part the groove seems solid from the drums and bass. Despite the fact that you could stand to get a little more intense, if it were me I'd try to stay in the pocket with the drums and bass anyway... if you can't beat 'em, join 'em laugh. But as usual, I like your playing. Great ideas!

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#1758830 - 09/25/11 09:49 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
Scott Coletta Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/07/11
Posts: 514
Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Got Tickets for Keith Jarrett Trio!!!!!!! Oct 26! (UCLA Royce Hall)

... Apparently this is one of only a handful of trio concerts he's doing.


Cool! I'm going to see them at the Chicago Symphony Center on Oct 21st. It'll be interesting to compare notes.

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#1758849 - 09/25/11 10:32 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: Scott Coletta]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1332
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: Scott Coletta
Nice stuff Chris! I agree with Dave that some more supportive players might be good, but I know that can be hard to come by sometimes. It seems to me like you're wanting to push harder and faster than what the drums and bass are. I will say though, that for the most part the groove seems solid from the drums and bass. Despite the fact that you could stand to get a little more intense, if it were me I'd try to stay in the pocket with the drums and bass anyway... if you can't beat 'em, join 'em laugh. But as usual, I like your playing. Great ideas!
Thanks Scott. Yeah I do tend to push, I really have to learn how to listen more, and to learn how to convey what I want to do musically to the other players.
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#1758876 - 09/25/11 11:44 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: chrisbell]
KlinkKlonk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 355
Originally Posted By: chrisbell
Originally Posted By: KlinkKlonk
chris is that tommy körberg on perc?!

Oh yes. The side-burns, the hair, that 70's puffy shirt! smile
(so i guess you have some connection with Scandinavia?)

The band was called Solar Plexus, check out their other stuff, that band ruled!
Stravinsky, folk music, jazz, blues, classical - listen to their version of Handel.
There's a whole cult round the first album.


I'm from Stockholm. I checked them out, didn't know about this group. Alot of fun!

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Happy Birthday Cinnamonbear!
by Kuanpiano
07/27/14 11:17 PM
Finger "Tapes": Purpose?
by CleverName
07/27/14 10:56 PM
Accessories needed for grand pianos.
by Stevio55
07/27/14 08:31 PM
Schulze Pollmann 113e Moderno detail information?
by pdxfz1
07/27/14 07:12 PM
Will starting on unweighted keys cause problems later on?
by Alex1
07/27/14 05:43 PM
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