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#1758891 - 09/25/11 12:05 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1731
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: beeboss
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
I'm going to post this REALLY lo-fi recording of Solar from the early 2000s..maybe around 2002 or 2003 can't remember. This was long before quality digital hand held Zoom/Sony recorders hit the market. So if you wanna have ANY semblance of bass you're gonna have to use phones. The sound is VERY ragged, drums are overpowering in places, but the interplay in places I feel is pretty cool. The bass player is Chris Symer and drummer is Michael Stephens. So enough disclaimers..

Solar
http://www.box.net/files#/files/0/f/0/1/f_943922657


Can't hear it Dave, it says I need to log in.


That's weird. I just started using boxnet..I wonder if every link I've put up recently has the same issue. I don't get it-anyway try this.

http://www.divshare.com/download/14950778-7f0
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#1758898 - 09/25/11 12:15 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
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Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2993
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Dave F,

you need to right click you file in box and say "share".
Copy paste doesn't work.

++

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#1758907 - 09/25/11 12:32 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: KlinkKlonk]
chrisbell Offline
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Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1352
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: KlinkKlonk
I'm from Stockholm. I checked them out, didn't know about this group. Alot of fun!
Well, I live there too. smile
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#1758909 - 09/25/11 12:33 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: knotty]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1731
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: knotty
Dave F,

you need to right click you file in box and say "share".
Copy paste doesn't work.

++


ok thanks K....
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#1759910 - 09/26/11 07:27 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
chrisbell Offline
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Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1352
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
A foretaste from the CD I'm working on; Palle Danielsson on bass, his sister Monica Dominique on piano. http://www.youtube.com/dominiquemusik
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#1759938 - 09/26/11 08:23 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: Dave Ferris]
beeboss Offline
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Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1201
Loc: uk south
Great Solar Dave, i really enjoyed the freedom in that.
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#1759940 - 09/26/11 08:26 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: chrisbell]
beeboss Offline
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Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1201
Loc: uk south
The Monica and Palle is beautiful.
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#1759945 - 09/26/11 08:35 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: Dave Ferris]
jazzwee Online   content
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7086
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
I'm going to post this REALLY lo-fi recording of Solar from the early 2000s..maybe around 2002 or 2003 can't remember. This was long before quality digital hand held Zoom/Sony recorders hit the market. So if you wanna have ANY semblance of bass you're gonna have to use phones. The sound is VERY ragged, drums are overpowering in places, but the interplay in places I feel is pretty cool. The bass player is Chris Symer and drummer is Michael Stephens. So enough disclaimers..

Solar
http://www.divshare.com/download/14950778-7f0


That's a really nice interplay there with the rhythm section. Really energetic! That's a pretty original take on Solar. Very modern sounding. Really nice. What changes were you playing Dave? A complete reharm there.

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#1760174 - 09/27/11 03:24 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1731
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
. What changes were you playing Dave? A complete reharm there.



Thanks JW & BB. You know this was almost 10 years ago now cry I have no idea what I was playing. I was in the moment and definitely depending on the vibe and support from Mike & Chris-two great players. They were feeling (the time/groove/) where I was taking it, they supported and enhanced it further, which in turn gave me a comfortable cushion on which to take it out/explore but still have that home base of the form.

Basically it's not too often when I find a bass player and drummer who are on the same wave length as me.....too bad they both moved away from LA. frown
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#1760288 - 09/27/11 09:26 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: Dave Ferris]
Scott Coletta Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/07/11
Posts: 514
Loc: Chicago
Dave, Solar sounded great! You are right... it's too bad those guys aren't around for you to play with anymore. The interplay is awesome there. We're going to try that tune with my trio at our next rehearsal... I hope we can play it that well! Oh, and I laughed at the end when someone did Miles laugh.

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#1761778 - 09/29/11 04:07 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Online   content
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7086
Loc: So. California
As it turns out, Solar got squeezed out of our Set List. Our singer takes up half the tunes so I don't much instrumentals left. So here's my set list for tomorrow. I've got a Sextet (2 Sax players, 1 regular and one sitting in).


Set 1:
Out of Nowhere (Vocals)
Take the A Train (Vocals)
Tenderly (Vocals)
Footprints
Recordame
Stella by Starlight
Body and Soul

Set 2:
Corcovado (Vocals)
Don’t Explain (Vocals)
All Blues (Vocals)
On Green Dolphin St
500 Miles High
Take 5
The Very Thought of You (Vocals)
Mr. PC
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#1762702 - 10/01/11 04:41 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Online   content
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7086
Loc: So. California
Some gig recordings...Comments welcome.

Take 5 - on this one, I didn't solo a lot. It was about supporting everyone else.
http://www.box.net/shared/t25i2m65uhhj8xdqm23k

All Blues
http://www.box.net/shared/47q8zgsh07677dnt2m8m

Don't Explain
http://www.box.net/shared/r41kririy8i9fmefqjpz

On these two, I needed to back off and give it space but the heat of moment takes away the concentration. These were actually played first.

Footprints
http://www.box.net/shared/vk7p8nadx4ok6c69n6nv

Stella by Starlight
http://www.box.net/shared/qa10899lf42p8zak6ec9

**Edited recordings to remove 2nd Sax Player


Edited by jazzwee (10/01/11 10:33 PM)
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#1762819 - 10/01/11 11:14 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
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Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2993
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Jw,

I listened to Stella, and you played it very well. That's the best I've heard you play live. Trio sounded good.

However, if I can be blunt, you should not let either of the sax players sit in. The first one came in obviously not paying attention, I'm not even sure what tune he was playing. He picked it up on the last 16 bars but before that was painful. Sometimes people get lost and you just have to kind of go with the soloist, but in this case, I don't even know where he was.
The second guy was even worse.

Seriously, do this as a trio.

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#1762844 - 10/01/11 12:04 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1201
Loc: uk south
yeah the saxes ruin that tune. It was nice before they came in. The first guy can play a bit though, sounds like he was in the wrong key or didn't know the changes or something he sounded better on footprints. Anyway you are sounding good JW
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#1762882 - 10/01/11 01:44 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Online   content
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7086
Loc: So. California
Thanks guys. Actually you listened to the tunes I felt I didn't do as well in. Those two tunes were in the first set and I felt like I was crowding the lines. I needed to just take a breath sometimes.

First sax player (a woman) is a regular of the band and she normally does very well on the tunes she knows well. Stella was not something she played with me before. She's a hit with the crowd because she's a petite girl with a huge sax sound.

The second sax player was the one sitting in and aside from seemingly playing in the wrong key, his sax was out of tune. First time he played with me but he's related to someone important at the venue so for PR reasons, I had to let him sit in. He knew he wasn't playing well. Normally he sounds good at the jam sessions.

But I've reduced the "sitting in" (less 1 player). I'd like to make my solos longer so I'm definitely cutting the group down.

Tunes like Footprints, All Blues, Recordame do sound better with sax and the crowd likes it. Now we are biased because we are all piano oriented here. But the regulars in the crowd always ask for the sax girl so I have to be cautious if I want to keep the gig.
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#1762893 - 10/01/11 02:02 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Online   content
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7086
Loc: So. California
As I listened to these again, I noticed that the trio interaction has improved. We (bass, drums, piano) all seem to react together with changes in dynamics and texture. It looks like everyone's listening now. My comping pattern seems to match the bass. I noticed too that on Footprints, the bass player was following me on chromatic chord motions.

I think perhaps I stay with the same comping pattern for much too long though on some of these...
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#1763258 - 10/02/11 08:45 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2993
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
JW,

I take it back. The first sax sounded really good on All Blues. Night and day with Stella.
I know it's difficult when you have to accept people playing with you, especially if they are going to hang around.
I don't know if I told that story, but we played a high-end audio show in Spring (pics here: http://www.capitalaudiofest.com/p512.html)
And we had to have several people sit in with us. An 16 year old alto that just wouldn't leave after he played his tune. But worse were the 2 theramin players that stayed the whole time. 2 of them!!! The entire time providing some sort of out of tune noise in the background. I left with major headache, but somehow, everyone was excited to see "theramin players" smile

Anyway, on All blues, I would try to lay back a bit on your comping. Also hold the notes and use the pedal more. The voicings are nice.

Overall you guys sounded really good on that one.

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#1763349 - 10/02/11 12:13 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1352
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
As I've got my producers hat on (3 days in the studio with one of the best bassists and a pretty ok pianist, then 4 days with a quintet with the crème de la crème of Scandinavian players will tune the ears . . . ).
I'll follow its lead with my short-hand style of commenting a take.

All Blues:
piano sounds a bit hard, maybe a Rhodes next time? or a at least play more mf than f, and a little more laid-back playing wise.
I can dig the el bass, but a little more funky . . ?
No sax during vocals.
Cool with the half-tempo feel in the piano solo more of that, MORE blues!!

Dont Explain:
hold/sustain those piano chords, don't comp, lay golden eggs, piano solo hey ok!! smile

Footprints
bass: skip the 5ths, play the upper third, do NOT go to the root of the IV during the head!! and wait with the walk-in-4 a couple of chorus. also: are you playing Jazz or Soul?

Stella:
nice trio vibe here!
I prefer walk-in-2 during the head (just a matter of taste)
Drums sound good w brushes, skip moving to cymbals, you loose the swing!
piano nicely played, but the sound jumps out a bit to much.

General comments:
soloists: learn the changes. the phrases are completely ok, the pausing is fine, but there's some bum notes that dont fit here and there.
bassist: learn to sustain your notes, play closer to the fret, dont play du du du du, and use a tad bit more chromaticism.


Edited by chrisbell (10/02/11 12:14 PM)
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#1763366 - 10/02/11 12:53 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Online   content
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7086
Loc: So. California
Chris -- just a note, the Zoom recorder was right in front of the speakers so the piano isn't actually that loud in mix in real life. In fact, you'll hear a lot of reverb because the room is extremely dry and I had to adjust that. But from the audience it sounds more balanced. Sax is also close to the recorder. I'm not sure I'm able to tell the bass all those particulars. But bass will in fact mix funk and jazz all the time. In a trio, I'd probably use a different bass player. Thanks for such specific comments.

Knotty -- I agree on the comping and pedal. I was thinking that too. Something I notice after the fact. But the volume is a different matter as I said above.

I took out the 2nd sax in all the recordings so nobody gets more distracted.
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#1763553 - 10/02/11 07:02 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: chrisbell]
jazzwee Online   content
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7086
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: chrisbell

Footprints
bass: skip the 5ths, play the upper third, do NOT go to the root of the IV during the head!! and wait with the walk-in-4 a couple of chorus. also: are you playing Jazz or Soul?


I'd like to understand what you mean here.

Since the bass line is 1 5 1 b3, I'm not sure what you mean by skip 5th and play upper third.

I also don't understand the IV reference. You mean don't play the F in F-11? Why is that?

Edit - BTW - Noticed that the bass went 2 feel on part of the head at the end. You're right, a 2 feel is better when playing the head. I'm going to specify that next time.


Edited by jazzwee (10/02/11 07:46 PM)
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#1763725 - 10/03/11 03:23 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1352
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: jazzwee

Since the bass line is 1 5 1 b3, I'm not sure what you mean by skip 5th and play upper third.


Skip the 5ths as in the double-stop that your bassist plays. It throws the flow.
End the bass line on the minor third, your bassist plays a double-stop (a 5th).

Originally Posted By: jazzwee
I also don't understand the IV reference. You mean don't play the F in F-11? Why is that?


Well, I prefer to follow in Wayne's footsteps smile
The bassline (during the head) Cm: C G C Eb > Fm: C F Bb Eb is sheer beauty in it's complex simplicity. Wayne knew what he was doing.
It's like the head in All Blues: Miles meant it to be: first chord G7 (I), second chord (the IV) is Gm7 and not C7 as many do tend to play it. Though during solos on both these tunes, its up to the bassist to play whatever fits with the soloist
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#1764106 - 10/03/11 05:57 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
Scott Coletta Offline
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Registered: 01/07/11
Posts: 514
Loc: Chicago
Jazzwee, just listening to your gig recordings. Overall, good stuff. You're playing is improving! I'm hearing more development and direction and less "wandering" laugh.

What happened with the sax in Take Five? Sounds like they need to work on getting the feel for five. Playing in odd times is tough but it's good you guys are taking a crack at it. I generally just try to avoid it, too much stress smile.

On All Blues I dig that you're trying to do something different with the comping during the head. Just seems a bit too out there and aggressive at times. Maybe just be a little more subtle with the placement of things. Nice solo here though!

On Don't Explain I think you're comping is good, but I agree with Chris that you could leave a little more space and hold on to some things every now and then. It also sounds like maybe you could learn some new voicings for some of the chords in this tune. What key are you playing it in?

On Footprints I think the fifths in the bass are cool and I don't have a problem with going to the F on the F minor... Sorry Chris! smile. As an ensemble I think this is one of the best tracks and your solo is one of the best I've heard you play!

Sounded like there was some confusion about whether Stella was going to be swing or bossa at the start laugh.

I think I'm starting to get where you're heading with your sound. Not sure if that makes any sense but it's intended as a compliment... I'm hearing some artistry developing... something recognizable as you cool. Keep it up!

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#1764156 - 10/03/11 08:19 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7086
Loc: So. California
Haven't been around the computer...had to deal with medical issues...

Thanks for your comments Scott. It's pretty right on with my self-evaluation.

BTW I do tend to disagree with Chris too about the bass on footprints. The bass player (the most experienced person in the band actually) has that as his signature sound and Footprints is one of the tunes where I let him get some freedom (the other is his other favorite, Mr. PC).

In general, I'm a bit frustrated by what I hear in live recordings. I seem to have a more definite direction melodically now (no 'wandering') when I'm not playing live. But I'm at 50% level when I perform live. A lot of what I played would have taken better shape (particularly Stella), if I just gave it some space. It's a panic of the moment. I don't panic necessarily while I play live, but let's say I'm distracted.

I'm also frustrated at the articulation, which suffers from the same reduction in performance when playing live. I suppose at some point it's all subconscious and will resolve itself shortly.

The comping was a little aggressive. And I was too focused on matching the rhythm section and matching their dynamics and patterns. I wasn't thinking about playing against that for variety.

BTW - Someone in the audience just told me today that the piano wasn't loud at all till later on and it was my active comping that got them in the groove. But I agree that I kept some patterns way longer than I should have.

On Don't Explain -- it's a new tune to me. Never played it before. The key was odd too (B minor) so I just played regular rootless. Didn't want to risk anything on a first play...

Stella- I think Chris is right here. A Two-feel would swing better. It's just the way the melody goes. Drummer is reverting to non-swinging style I think. I may have to just emphasize the SWING next time.

I think you're right that my voice is coming out. I figure that a year from now, I'll have the guts to play at the big time jam sessions smile

Everytime we discuss all this and I become aware, often there's an immediate effect at the next gig so I appreciate the detailed comments!
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#1764517 - 10/04/11 11:27 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7086
Loc: So. California
In case we all forgot about Very Early, which we promised to work on again, I just found a new version.

Alan Pasqua has a new album called "Twin Bill", which is like Bill Evans's 'Conversation with Myself' (two piano recording) and Very Early is one of the featured tunes. It has other Evans tunes on it like Waltz for Debby, Nardis, Time Remembered,...
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#1764549 - 10/04/11 12:25 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
beeboss Offline
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Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1201
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: jazzwee

In general, I'm a bit frustrated by what I hear in live recordings. I seem to have a more definite direction melodically now (no 'wandering') when I'm not playing live. But I'm at 50% level when I perform live. A lot of what I played would have taken better shape (particularly Stella), if I just gave it some space. It's a panic of the moment. I don't panic necessarily while I play live, but let's say I'm distracted.

I'm also frustrated at the articulation, which suffers from the same reduction in performance when playing live. I suppose at some point it's all subconscious and will resolve itself shortly.



I wouldn't bank on that. I certainly recognise that syndrome and I am pretty sure everyone does to some degree. Hopefully you will find ways to minimise it but I doubt it will go away, at least it never has with me, not entirely. Partly I think it is based on an illusion - the illusion that in practise things sound much better. We have a tendency to think we can play something if we did it well in practise a few times, but really this is just not enough. In order to really play it well at the gig we have to be able to nail it virtually everytime we play it. Our perceptions of how we play are based on how well we can play occasionally when we are at our best, but the reality is normally we are functioning on say 70%. In order to get 100% at the gig we need to be at 130% in practice, which is difficult!
It is always good to develop some strategies to improve concentration, at the gig or at home.
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#1764554 - 10/04/11 12:43 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7086
Loc: So. California
So Beeboss, if you're doing a Youtube recording, how is that compared to live playing?

I suppose that's the problem with Jazz. The masters can hit a high level of consistency and they have higher abilities to focus as professionals, even if they're not necessarily feeling very creative (at least that's what Bill Evans said in his interview).

I'm at a point where I'm still improving and it shows up even in comparison to things I just recorded a month before. So that's my basis for assuming that some things get resolved. Things like space and articulation are easily solvable I think.

As far as melodic content goes, I think that if I play "less" live, then I don't have to focus as much. That accounts for not having to worry about being at 130% (I think it's more 150% myself smile ) to cover for anxiety issues.

I think being even more conscious about adding more space in a live performance gives the brain more time to digest, and also synch the time better. I'm beginning to see that time seems to accelerate (my perception of space is undersized) when playing live. So perhaps the more extreme I practice it, the better everything will balance out in a live situation.
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#1764599 - 10/04/11 02:18 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
beeboss Offline
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Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1201
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: jazzwee

So Beeboss, if you're doing a Youtube recording, how is that compared to live playing?


If I mess up I can start over, there is not that luxury on a gig. Mind you even with this luxury I still have yet to play any entire piece that I am completely happy with. Sometimes I get a whole chorus of good stuff but that is the exception. But over time the standard of the bad bits gets better, mostly.

Originally Posted By: jazzwee

I'm at a point where I'm still improving and it shows up even in comparison to things I just recorded a month before. So that's my basis for assuming that some things get resolved. Things like space and articulation are easily solvable I think.


I also can improve in a month, also I can get worse in a month.
Sure you will get better at these 'problems' but the better they get the more detail you will be able to see remaining difficulties in. I believe it is an illusion that there ever comes a point that there really are resolutions to these difficulties. The problems of playing melodically and with maximum focus, emotion, meaning and with the best best possible time feel are not really solvable, not by us mortals at least.

Originally Posted By: jazzwee


I think being even more conscious about adding more space in a live performance gives the brain more time to digest, and also synch the time better. I'm beginning to see that time seems to accelerate (my perception of space is undersized) when playing live. So perhaps the more extreme I practice it, the better everything will balance out in a live situation.


If you hear the music as needing more space then that is what you should give it. If you are giving more space just because that is the easiest thing to do (to lighten the load on your overstretched resources) then that is maybe not so good.
To really be able to play in the moment we need to be able to play any conceivable thing and that includes lots of notes as well as just a few. Of course this is an ideal but there is a time for stretching our comfort zone and another for playing within it.
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#1764613 - 10/04/11 02:50 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
jazzwee Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7086
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: beeboss

Sure you will get better at these 'problems' but the better they get the more detail you will be able to see remaining difficulties in. I believe it is an illusion that there ever comes a point that there really are resolutions to these difficulties. The problems of playing melodically and with maximum focus, emotion, meaning and with the best best possible time feel are not really solvable, not by us mortals at least.


Wow -- this is such an annoying truth. Maybe that's why to me, I hear all these "problem bits" and I hear it more and more.

But you have to admit though that there are levels to problems where the casual listener can no longer gauge exactly. They just know you don't sound like Keith Jarrett but don't know exactly why.

If one aims for some technical perfection, then perhaps it is not achievable except for a few in the world. However, does musicality hold to the same standard? Plenty of beautiful jazz music didn't require more complexity than what I'm able to play. That's certainly encouraging and could be reachable.

Maybe I understand now where my teacher is leading me. It's more about making a musical statement than about chops.
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#1764640 - 10/04/11 04:00 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1201
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: jazzwee

Wow -- this is such an annoying truth. Maybe that's why to me, I hear all these "problem bits" and I hear it more and more.



That is good isn't it? It means your hearing is getting more acute. To improve at your weak points first you need to recognise where they are.

Originally Posted By: jazzwee

But you have to admit though that there are levels to problems where the casual listener can no longer gauge exactly. They just know you don't sound like Keith Jarrett but don't know exactly why.



I am sure that is true. As players though we are involved in the music on an entirely different level than any member of the audience.


Originally Posted By: jazzwee

If one aims for some technical perfection, then perhaps it is not achievable except for a few in the world. However, does musicality hold to the same standard?



Technical perfection may be extremely difficult even for something pretty simple but it at least possible, to a degree. Musical perfection on the other hand, what does it even mean? How can we even begin to evaluate musical perfection? There is no objective scale for it.

Originally Posted By: jazzwee

Plenty of beautiful jazz music didn't require more complexity than what I'm able to play. That's certainly encouraging and could be reachable.




It is certainly true that there is plenty of beautiful simple music around. It is not easy to play simple music though. Just try playing the simplest piece of Mozart perfectly. Music that is not really complex may be easier to play on a technical level but musically it is still a challenge. But we do what we can. Sometimes it feels to me like walking towards a mirage though, when you get closer the goal disappears only to be replaced with another one further on.
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#1764669 - 10/04/11 05:07 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: beeboss]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1352
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: beeboss
. . . Sometimes it feels to me like walking towards a mirage though, when you get closer the goal disappears only to be replaced with another one further on.

Hear, hear.

I find it frustrating AND incredibly fascinating at the same time.
It's one of the reasons that keeps me going.
It's not about reaching a goal, but walking the path and working on one's craft.
We all have a part to play in the history of music. We just have to find which one it is.

And.

Keep going.
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I never play anything the same way once.

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