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Wiz, that augmented pattern cannot be overused, the way I use it as it has a particular sound. And typically it cannot be used with the head because the Major/Min might clash. But it's just an example of the "shape" searching we were doing on that other thread.

Typically on Major7 and Min7 chords, I'd be thinking more along the lines of Eigsti's diatonic shape movement, like triad or inversions. So this is a variation away from that.

Yeah that Tritone+Fourth pattern is also pretty embedded in my playing now and can do it as a moving voice. All I really think about is that when I use that shape, I think of a H-W diminished as my scale.

Quartal shapes are still excellent of course of Major and Minors. In that Roger (Lot2Learn) video, he plays the Cm chord by starting the quartals on the root, then the 9th, then the minor 3rd. That was a new application to me (never really studied McCoy much before).

I really liked your Shapes thread as it makes you keep an open mind on these. I just have to build up my "shapes" collection. Beeboss, just added one to my list. When you did your shapes thread, we didn't really discuss specifics so at least now we have a few here.

But I know that this is filler too so one can't over-focus on it. In the end, IMHO, it's still the solo lines that count.

Ok, I'm confused. What distinction are you making between soloing and comping? Are you talking about solo piano, or quartet setting or...?

Speaking of lines, this guy has some real "tasty" lines, puts a smile on my face:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KzlfdxcHCg

Peter Martin, very underrated player. Backs up Dianne Reeves and Chris Botti.

Comping - structures are used to create moving voices while staying on the same chord. Great for ballads since there's a lot of time spent on each chord. Also modal tunes.

Soloing - the structures are used as starting points for playing ideas (i.e. incorporating the specific notes of the structure in the solo, although not necessarily in any particular order).

You keep posting these and I'll have a phobia of posting my version She's great!

Wiz, you must know DD pretty well if you can play in different keys. I know I can't do that because some of the voicings can be a bit unusual.

So are you going to post where you are on it?

I see. What I'm doing is actually opposite of this. The melody is dictating the upper structure, or at least that's how I'm trying to approach it. When I do it the other way around the the solo ideas take a much different turn. It is really just changing my mind about what comes first. I realized that the chords were coming first before, and the limited chords I knew may have kept me soloing in a certain way ie quartal chords make me do things in my solo that I may not be hearing in my head. But now that I'm concentrating on the solo, the chords will have to follow that. So the +11, b9s etc will just be melody notes and the chords all of a sudden say 'Hey! I'm not really that useful as just a Dominant, I can actually help the melody if I include the accompanying upper structures!'

Then the melody and the chords lived happily ever after.

I think I'll post a recording tonight to illustrate if you like.

Scep, I didn't realize you're composing. I was of course thinking in terms of playing a Standard. I don't think any of my commentary applies to composing. It would be too limiting.

It's from searching that you discover these shapes (like the augmented-triad).

Haha! Just remember it's not a competition. If I had to play some classical stuff now I'd sound like a complete beginner. I get inspired hearing these kids really digging jazz.


I wish I could post right now but I don't have a recording device. Looking to get a high quality one soon, but as the holidays have just ended I'm tight on budget.

scepticalforum... Would like to hear your songs and what you're working on. Got any jazz ballads that you know well to try it on?

I am composing, but I was actually talking about improvising over changes in a standard. I think you'll see what I mean when I say iii vi ii v I: What voicings/extentions do you use where and why? The basic changes are there, but depending one what you are wanting to do will dictate the type of iii, ii, v, etc. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.

But now I'm even more curious. "It's from searching that you will discover these shapes..." How is that different than hunt and peck? I don't think you mean that do you?

I know the melody to DD well, but just play it starting in C major, as it's a key that I am very familiar and can throw in lots of stuff. If I had to do it in B I'd be lost.

Ok. I've decided to post a recording of me fumbling through some upper structure stuff, and how I'm trying to have the melody (and improv) guide my chord choices. Don't expect a performance here. It's just me playing some chords and then explaining why.

http://www.box.net/shared/4hpndsjpaf

And, no, this isn't indicative of a finished piece. But how do you like the tuning of the piano? Just freshly tuned about an hour ago!

I know nothing anymore, unless you want to hear me play something without upper structure stuff. I could post some recordings that truly are mediocre, but really, you'd want to hear something that I'm not thrilled about? If so, I will because it's almost as if I'm now divorced from that part of myself. The trouble is I'm not at that new level yet, just peeking into the possibilities.

Dolphin Dance

So here's my one-shot try here...it's massively full of errors and that's screwing up my time. Also much too fast. That's the effect of the "Red Dot". This thing is so difficult that if I don't play it a lot it can really mess me up.

http://www.box.net/shared/02jhkp6bmb

If we were posting perfect stuff, we wouldn't be in this thread. So guys, the point is that were not Jazz masters and it's from sharing that we can get to test our skills and move to the next level.

So bring it on -- whatever it is.

Where are you using the upper structures then? I thought you were incorporating them into standards. Or are you trying out the new sounds and seeing how they can fit? That's always the first step, I need to work out new voicings and such before I put them into songs.

That's the fun part and experimenting with new sounds and what you like or don't.

btw, your link isn't working.

jazzwee, nice playing! Clean lines and I like the harmony. I'm going for a much freer interpretation, where the melody is interspersed into some improv. I've heard some versions of Herbie playing it where you could barely recognize it but then he'd throw in a line and you knew it was DD.

Are your voicings worked out from a lead sheet or your own?

Wiz, thanks. Actually this tune really works with a free form solo piano approach like what that girl does. I'm really rusty with this tune but you've encouraged me to clean it up. Played slowly it could be good for a gig.

Leadsheets don't give you any clue to the voicings here. So long ago, my teacher used this tune as a platform to investigate these voicings. I vary it a little bit since we did it kind of big picture. But I liked the lush voicings for solo piano. As you can guess the harmony here is quite complex.

But before you set aside playing this the standard way, make sure you've listened to the original Herbie version (Maiden Voyage album). His solo was so simple but so poignant. It's such a classic.

The link is working again, but I'm taking it off tonight, because it was a demo of what I was doing, and some things I'm trying now, but they're not successful yet...so I didn't want this out there for too long.
http://www.box.net/shared/4hpndsjpaf

And Jazzwee,

Nice stuff there. I love the piano sound too. Are you adding reverb? You use an H4 don't you?