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#2228802 - 02/10/14 03:33 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
chrisbell Offline
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Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1370
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
I may be crazy but I'm going to try to do Spain on a gig, without rehearsal...
Go for it!
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#2229383 - 02/11/14 03:47 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7099
Loc: So. California
Well we tried Spain at the jam and everyone had a different idea of how to play the head. It actually turned out semi ok other than some head glitches. It just has to be agreed upon in advance so this means, you have to rehearse it. There's also inconsistencies with timing.

But we actually had a Cellist that could do the free intro...was kind of neat. This was just a jam though so some mistakes could be tolerated. Not ready for prime time in a gig.

Soloing over it was fun and no problems there. It was a particularly good session though because many of the players were studio musicians and could sight read any head.

We had a Cellist, Mandolin, Violin, Guitar, Tenor Sax, Piano, Electric Piano,..could have been more obscure instruments but those guys didn't show up.

BTW - we played it at tempo so that was pretty gutsy! 200bpm or so.



Edited by jazzwee (02/11/14 03:50 AM)
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#2229399 - 02/11/14 05:21 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2305
Loc: Sydney
Sounds so fun JW. Jazz cello is pretty cool ! I love Oscar Pettiford's swing.

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#2229478 - 02/11/14 10:00 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2999
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
I think some of these tunes and especially this one, really need rehearsal. At the same time, that's what Jam sessions are about, learning what does and does not work without rehearsing.
Some people do the interlude between each solo, some don't.
Plus the beauty of this tune is in the unison lines.

I'd prefer not playing that as a jam, but would consider rehearsing for it.

Other tunes I hate at Jams are Round Midnight. Such a long form and almost guaranteed to bore every one out of their mind. I usually veto it. Makes for a great solo piece though.

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#2229530 - 02/11/14 11:20 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7099
Loc: So. California
Last night was the first group veto ever. Donna Lee.

This jam has never played Donna Lee in 4 years. It's never been called so I forgot the head. Someone else was going to play the head but the players decided that it was NOT a West Coast tune. LOL.

Never had Cherokee played either.

Maybe because no one wanted super uptempo tunes. I personally never veto anything.

Now with Spain, the problem is there's disagreement on how you play all the different hits. When the head starts on repeat #2, if there is a repeat #2. How to signal that the head is coming. All this is important because some people think you play the head melody at any time but it can't work since the chords change to double time. Just to avoid issues, we said no head in between solos. In any case, we semi did it with a minimal wreck. Different versions of the tune had different approaches.
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#2229605 - 02/11/14 12:46 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2999
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Donna lee is a mean one to call unless you pay the head. The changes as you know are Indiana and pretty straight forward.
Depends how well you know folks.
Cherokee is usually hard on the bass player, so again depends on how well you know them.
Other that that, if you're going to burn, Cherokee is a good one.
It's you or noone is another great jam tune that can go very fast.

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#2229706 - 02/11/14 03:29 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7099
Loc: So. California
Our house bass player has chops so I can throw anything at him.

I haven't really played Cherokee. It's not really that bad because of the half-time feel. But not my type of tune anyway.

Last night I called Falling Grace and that's new for so many that it messed up a lot of people. If you don't know that tune, your eyes better be glued to the leadsheet and count it out. Well that's exactly what the bass player did and he didn't get lost once.

Once I stopped comping, and started blowing, I got lost myself!

Overall, a lot of fun challenges because there were better players than usual. Many pros.
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#2230224 - 02/12/14 09:22 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1370
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Spain is a tricky tune to play, beware those 16th's!

This week's Jam of the week (the FB group: 1 tune, 1 solo chorus)) is Day of Wine and Roses (the Toot's version; F - Ab). Here's my take:


This weekly assignment is actually quite inspiring; within its parameters. And it's fun watching and listening to the other participants.


Edited by chrisbell (02/12/14 09:25 AM)
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#2230352 - 02/12/14 12:58 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: chrisbell]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7099
Loc: So. California
Beautiful Chris! So nicely developed! I'm so wishing to hear it against a bass just to appreciate the counterpoint. Because you're not outlining changes, it's a little tricky to know where you are. Maybe for solo piano, clearly state the chords in your LH perhaps? When I imagine this with a bass, it's SWEET!

I won't have time to do JOTW this time around. So we'll see if I can catch the next one.

EDIT - I guess you are using different changes. Not familiar with the Toots version.


Edited by jazzwee (02/12/14 12:59 PM)
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#2230364 - 02/12/14 01:17 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7099
Loc: So. California
I have to say it's really cool to see JOTW posts on my newsfeed all day instead of the usual crap...
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#2230392 - 02/12/14 01:50 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2999
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Nice job Chris.

I haven't figured out whether i was going to post or not this week.
Looks like the east coast will be stranded so I might as well...
Haven't decided whether to do a bassline version, a counterpoint version or a burning version.

Don't say "all of the above".

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#2230443 - 02/12/14 03:10 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazztpt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/18/10
Posts: 345
ChrisBell - really interesting, far away from the original, would be interested to see what chords you are playing.

Knotty - all of the above :-)

I actually posted a solo version of this to the Bar last month, its 3/4 choruses so doesn't quite fit the format but I'll repost here if anyone is interested. Haven't really practiced any jazz for a while and listening to you guys I need to do some work.

Jazzwee - spain without rehearsal , you had me seeking out the Chick Corea book , difficult music to be sure. You are fearless.


Edited by jazztpt (02/12/14 03:11 PM)
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#2230496 - 02/12/14 04:37 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1370
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Beautiful Chris! So nicely developed! I'm so wishing to hear it against a bass just to appreciate the counterpoint. Because you're not outlining changes, it's a little tricky to know where you are. Maybe for solo piano, clearly state the chords in your LH perhaps? When I imagine this with a bass, it's SWEET!
Thanks jazzwee, appreciate your words. It would be fun with a bass, but I do enjoy the ambiguity. I've always been drawn to that sound.

Originally Posted By: jazzwee
EDIT - I guess you are using different changes. Not familiar with the Toots version.

No different changes, I stick to the basic, well, my sound does have to do with utilising chord positions; stay away from the usual jazz LH. Something that I've always loved what Paul Bley does, especially on the album Open to Love.

The Toots' (Toots Thielemans) changes are just the 'A' chords modulated a minor third up in the 'B' section, and then back again.
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#2230498 - 02/12/14 04:38 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: knotty]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1370
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: knotty
Nice job Chris.

Thanks Knotty.

Originally Posted By: knotty
I haven't figured out whether i was going to post or not this week.
Looks like the east coast will be stranded so I might as well...
Haven't decided whether to do a bassline version, a counterpoint version or a burning version.
Don't say "all of the above".


All of the above. smile (you asked for it . . . . )
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#2230501 - 02/12/14 04:40 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazztpt]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1370
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: jazztpt
ChrisBell - really interesting, far away from the original, would be interested to see what chords you are playing.
The standard chords; but its all in the voicings.
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#2230673 - 02/12/14 09:41 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2305
Loc: Sydney
Hi Chris
What a beautiful sophisticated version.
I love your RH melody and your LH voice-leading.
I am so into the PB ambiguous sound, you've channelled him really well.

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#2230804 - 02/13/14 03:17 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: custard apple]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1370
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: custard apple
Hi Chris. What a beautiful sophisticated version.
I love your RH melody and your LH voice-leading. I am so into the PB ambiguous sound, you've channelled him really well.
Thanks custard for those kind words. Glad you're into PB, have you taken "Open to Love" for a spin? If not its a great solo album,
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#2230805 - 02/13/14 03:25 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2305
Loc: Sydney
Hi Chris
I really like "Open to Love".
I've been working on his "Hands On" album, and have been transcribing the first track Remembering.
I can only channel Paul Bley out-of-time, such is his complexity.
Here I improvise over 1 chorus of ATTYA changes.
https://app.box.com/s/xusz3v5b24lyy1h03r2k

What I find remarkable is that you can channel Paul Bley in-time.

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#2230908 - 02/13/14 11:18 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: custard apple]
Mark Polishook Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 727
Loc: Leicester, UK
Nice playing Cus! There's a real sense of gravity and spaciousness. Very nicely done!

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#2230939 - 02/13/14 12:26 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: custard apple]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1370
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: custard apple
Here I improvise over 1 chorus of ATTYA changes.
https://app.box.com/s/xusz3v5b24lyy1h03r2k
Very nice! Love the voicings and the melodic playing.

Originally Posted By: custard apple
What I find remarkable is that you can channel Paul Bley in-time.
Thanks, I don't really know what I'm doing at the moment, it "just" comes to me, the sound has always appealed to me and I've felt close to his playing; and I've love Carla Bley's tunes.
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#2230991 - 02/13/14 01:57 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: chrisbell]
jazztpt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/18/10
Posts: 345
Originally Posted By: chrisbell
Originally Posted By: jazztpt
ChrisBell - really interesting, far away from the original, would be interested to see what chords you are playing.
The standard chords; but its all in the voicings.


Well you had me there. I am not really familiar with Paul Bley , maybe I need to investigate.
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#2231014 - 02/13/14 02:42 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2999
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Cus,

Echoing Mark and Chris. Really nice well thought of stuff going on there.

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#2231128 - 02/13/14 05:54 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: knotty]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2305
Loc: Sydney
thank you mark chris and Knotty for your encouragement. I have always been attracted to Paul bleys incredibly strong underlying emotion which to me comes from his risk taking, tone and space rather than from notes and dynamics.

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#2232098 - 02/15/14 02:48 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2999
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
this week's submission for jotw. Looks like next week might be a challenge ...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152247434866178

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#2232427 - 02/16/14 05:39 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: knotty]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2305
Loc: Sydney
wow Knots ! Really fast stuff to be co-ordinating a walking bass and a melody like that. Well done.

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#2232654 - 02/16/14 03:31 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: custard apple]
jjo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 646
Loc: Chicago
Really fine soloing over a walking bass. Learning to solo over a walking bass is one of my current projects as I have a great deal of trouble making the left hand fully independent. I've never really worked on it but have reasons to do so now.

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#2232693 - 02/16/14 04:20 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2999
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Hi Cus,

Thank you for picking up on the pace. This is definitely at the up limit for me to be improvising 2 hands. I should have prob brought it down and 170 and groove harder.

Jjo,
Thank you!
I can only recommend 2 things
- Watch Dave Frank's walking bass line tutorial.
- Apply it.

This is not an overnight project, but Dave breaks it down. Don't skip the first steps. Write down some bass lines over a few tunes.
Then improvise for a good amount of time with LH only.
Do the simpler chord progressions at first.
Keep very slow like 80 bpm until it's very solid, bringing up the tempo is not the hard part.

Basically do what Dave says ... The hard part is having your brain switch between the 2 lines.

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#2232719 - 02/16/14 05:04 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: knotty]
jjo Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 646
Loc: Chicago
Thanks Knotty. I've actually got a teacher I'm using. I'm trying my hand at some jazz organ, so left hand bass lines are part of the tradition (I'm not attempting foot pedals yet!) I have watched the Dave Frank video and what he says and my teacher says are quite similar.

Seems like there really aren't any secrets. It's just a matter of putting in the time until that left hand gets on auto pilot.

What did you mean, however, by improvising with the left hand alone? Improvising a bass line as opposed to playing a pre-worked out line?

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#2232784 - 02/16/14 07:56 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2999
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
hi jjo
take it for what it's worth but I don't think the bass.line ever gets to auto pilot. its improv just like the rh, only is 4th notes instead of 8th.
so somehow you have to get your brain to switch between the 2 lines.
so might be good to improvising only with lh for a while.

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#2232785 - 02/16/14 07:58 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2999
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
At least that is what Dave taught me. But it doesn't matter how you get there :-)

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