Nice to read of all the happy Petrof purchasers in the purchase thread running alongside this. Until just recently, I hadn't enjoyed the few Petrofs I played and wasn't really considering them an option. However, having recently played a nicely prepped one, they are back in the frame as something with potential.

It's never been the sound, but always the action which has been the deal-breaker for me...I found all the ones I played quite stiff, inconsistent and heavy. But when I found this one with a good action, I actually enjoyed the sound. So the P-III(M?) is now on the shortlist (which is starting to clarify a bit again after a couple of disappointments). I think I would just need to find a good tech to get it voiced and certainly regulated to my taste.

Couple of questions:

1) I have read (I think here) that the P-IIIM has full Renner action and that this used to distinguish it from the P-III, but that now even the P-III has full Renner. The Piano Book says that all Petrof grands now come with Abel hammers. So does anyone know what distinguishes the IIIM from the III now? Can't find this on the Petrof website.

2) I found this review through Google:

http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/pol/review_petrof.htm

Which is really rather scathing to read, although the marks are just about respectable. The comments on the action differ from what I have found, but a couple of the Petrofs I played might have had the old Petrof/Renner action. Has this review been discussed on PW before? Any idea why this kind of survey should come up with so different a conclusion to Larry Fine's survey? I might think that Petrofs were just very varied (my experience), but both Fine and this online review claim quite a large sample size and a number of people doing the review.

Any thoughts?

I note in the online review, they actually got the size of the P-III wrong (6'8" as opposed to 6'4"). Thought it was just a typo to begin with, but it's repeated. Guess that doesn't inspire confidence in the rest of the review....

MusictownUSA is not a dependable site to go to for reviews.

I don't sell Petrof, but I have in the past and this site sells them short, frankly.

I hope this helps,

Not sure about your second question but the following is a link to a website that could help you with the first one.

http://www.geneva-intl.com/petrof.html

If you click on Grand Models, it will bring up every model they make. If you scroll down you will see the Petrof III and the Petrof III 'Majestic' (which i'm gonna guess is the Petrof III M you're talking about as there is nothing else there that could be) and if you click on each of the names it will give you a pdf file explaining all about the piano and it gives you the model specification. This should help you work out what the differewnces are between the III and the IIIM. Hope it helps.

x

After having a read through everything i don't think it's the actual inside of the piano that is different. They have the same spec but the pictures are very much different. The 'M' has ornate legs and a detailed music stand. The differences appear to be purely cosmetic - not in the working of the piano.

x

A Petrof with a Renner action is usually very nice. I'd recommend them.

***MP***
I think the M is different from the Majestic styling...I downloaded the brochure from the Petrof site and the III and III-M are seperate pages but with no indication of the differences between them. The styling looks a little different, but it's not the same as the majestic styling on the site you mention.

Thanks Rich and Bob for the comments.

John,

My experience with Petrof at several dealers has been like yours. The ones I have played have had an overly mushy sound and action. The sound could have been from voicing, or just softer hammers than I was used to. The action of the ones I played really bothered me. It was very heavy without being responsive. Perhaps that kept me from paying full attention to the tone.

I haven't yet found the "gem" among the Petrofs, but I'm prepared to believe that they exist. My sample, after all, has been fairly small, and the piano does have a very good reputation with a sizeable group of people (many detractors, though). I guess the thing to figure out is whether Petrof has been making changes that suggest a new approach or if Petrofs are just a highly variable machine. If they are variable, you have to know whether the difference is durable.

Best,

David F

So "M" seems to stand for "master" line. Just read the brochure a bit more carefully and there's some stuff about them being "handbuilt" and each played by a top pianist before leaving the factory. The only thing I can find in terms of spec is ebony sharps for the master series. Will keep investigating....

Sorry about that John. Thought i had cracked it. Oh well. Keep looking I guess.

x

Yes, The Petrof IIIM is a different piano than a Petrof III Majesty. I learned this in my reviewing of the piano. The IIIM is along the same lines as the II and the I. They are manufactured in a different place by the top assemblers and more attention to the build is given to these pianos. They all also contain a full Renner action. The IIIM is not sold in the US according to Geneva. I see though, that you are not in the US so the IIIM is probably available to you. Again, the IIIM contains a full Renner action as opposed to other III's that contain a Renner action assembled by Petrof employees. According to Larry Fine, no discernable difference.
I own a new III Majesty, and it is much nicer looking than the plain III, with it's ornate legs and stand.
I too had a very heavy sluggish action that has since been rectified by a good tech.
I believe Petrof doesn't prep their pianos much and leaves it to the dealer. That is why there is so much variation from one Petrof to another, different dealers prepare them, or not at all.
Mine was the latter, and the dealer ended up paying for this tech who did a variety of things to ease up the action. I am much happier now and the tone is what sold me in the first place.
Tone, not action, would be the deal breaker for me.
Action can be fixed, tone is a different beast.

Now that my action woes are over, I can feel good knowing I got probably the best piano around for the money. It's like buying a V8 Mustang; it doesn't cost as much as the Corvettes, Ferrari's, and Vipers, but it sure can hold it's own with them.
Bang for one's buck.

I just read that review from MusicTown USA and had to laugh.
When they can't even get simple facts straight, ie., the length of the Petrof III, their whole review, imo, is irrelevant.
And all the Petrof's they tried were too light??
That's a first!
Their review holds no water. It's a biased joke.

John,

What happened on your trip to Estonia, or did you not go?

David

Petrofs are nice pianos...It was a close second for me.

Hi David,

Not been yet. It's still a possibility and I've discussed dates with Mr. Laul. If I go it will be later this month. However, to get support for the piano in this country I'd have to pay extra to a dealer on top of the price I'm paying to the factory - which, after the Euro's rise this month against the pound is already a bit above the US street price. I also have the price of travel. There's a possibility they will re-establish dealers in the UK which would make it more economical.

So after being a bit jaded with the whole process recently, I'm just taking a week or two to completely re-evaluate options already available to me in the UK...which would include the Petrofs which I had previously discounted.

Rockitman - thanks for the personal account!

I have a Petrof (regular) model III, and I love it. I have never played a piano that I love as much as my 6'4", and I recommend this piano to anyone out there who is searching for a piano that "sings".

Looking through some of the documents on paneris.org , I saw quite a few references to POL (Pianos Online). I viewed these documents by going to: http://www.paneris.org/paneris/messageboards/attachments/pol/

they are linked to this site: http://www.pianosonline.co.uk/index.htm

That site just sells sheet music (or used to). However they do have a link to this site: http://www.piedog.com/Default.asp

Piedog.com does infact sell pianos, and not petrofs from what I could tell.

So one would have to believe this non-biased report actually does have some kind of agenda behind it.

That review at the Musictown site was controversial a few years ago. I remember reading something on another discussion site that said the poster had checked with Curtis and they had no record of any Ann LaRose (the name on the review). This person contacted Musictown and was unable to confirm that any Ann LaRose existed, and I think the poster said when he checked with Petrof (or Geneva) they told him that review came out after Petrof refused to pay for advertising on their site.

If you will, I want to use David's post to make a point. I think that his post exemplifies the boundries of a "responsible" review. While it is basically a negative review of a somewhat popular piano, it was excptionally well (read 'responsibly')balenced. He clearly states his experience while acknowledging other points of view and the limited sample pool he has judged.

IMHO, it is this level of responsibility and civility that should be an ideal to strive for here on PW.

Steve said: [/b]
I agree. Unfortunately sometimes people post something negative about a brand because of only 1 experience they either had or only heard 2nd or 3rd hand about!

For instance someone here recently said something along the lines that their friend couldn't even resell this newer____(shall remain nameless), piano as a warning to another not to buy one. However there could be many reasons why that[/b] particular piano has not sold. ...the least of which could be the piano itself!

Good point.

Steve,

Thank you. When I write up a post, I usually try to reread and edit it before hitting the "Add Reply" button. I don't always succeed ... emotion can get in anyone's way sometimes! But if you try to look at your own post through someone else's eyes, the negativity quotient naturally goes down.

Best,

David F

That POL review, if indeed fake, is particularly vicious because it is just borderline complimentary enough to be believable. If I hadn't had the opposite experience with Petrof actions myself and asked about it here, I might well have been taken in.

Guess it just emphasises how much you just have to trust your own hands and ears in the end and not what you read online. That said, if you read PW for long enough, you get to know that, even if people have their own preferences and occasionally agendas (one learns pretty fast who likes what), pretty much everyone also brings something worth listening to....

My search for my dream piano lasted for at least five years. I live in Phoenix and I traveled to Los Angeles and San Francisco to play and hear grand pianos. I wanted to play all the pianos I could so i would be sure. I visited Piano World many times to read and learn what was out there. I don't know how many times I looked in the free listings for prices so I would know what a good deal might be. Read the posts about this that and the other both good and bad. I played some beautiful sounding pianos and then started to deal with reality what I could afford and what I liked were worlds away. Back to piano world and read what people were saying about there pianos. I finally had to stop and decide, just like RockitMan,s post on his Petrof I could not agree more. I have a BEAST in my music room its is a 7" 9" Petrof 2 concert grand. My Piano was prep right and my tuner has 20 plus year experience with Petrof all things I learned here to do with this brand. I say post all of it good ,bad ,slimey
and i can't thank you enough. dpvjazz

Rockitman got it right in posting this comment:

"I believe Petrof doesn't prep their pianos much and leaves it to the dealer. That is why there is so much variation from one Petrof to another, different dealers prepare them, or not at all."

As a result, Petrofs are like unprepped diamonds out there sitting in showrooms next to perfectly prepped (name a brand) models. It takes a knowledgeable tech to bring out each Petrof's singing tone and lighten the action (Renner or Petrof/Renner -- makes no difference).

If the Petrof you want in the showroom seems to have a "heavy" action, just call a reputable tech (Steinway techs are the best in my opinion), and ask how much it would cost to (1) adjust the key frame glide bolts and dag block screws plus lubricate the dag slots on your new Petrof; (2)file hammers and voice, (3) install a humidifier. Make a Low offer on the Petrof (it's probably priced low already compared to other models that you think "sound" better), buy the Petrof, hire the technician, get it prepped properly -- and you will have the piano of your dreams with a fantastic action and a singing tone to rival the so-called "tier 1" pianos.

Disclaimer: I purchased a Petrof IV (5'8" three years ago, it is a dream come true piano, with a singing tone that gets better every year. I brought my piano teacher over to play it and she said: "WOW -- now THIS is a piano I wish I had." My Steinway technician (keep in mind he tunes Steinways in the Washington DC metro area for the best artists around) owns -- you guessed it -- a Petrof.

Virginia (from Virginia)

You were lucky you had one who *was*.

And obviously happened to know something of Petrofs - owning one himself....

For European pianos, generally speaking, I'd choose someone who knows these pianos intimately by experience as well. Like how to treat and voice *their* hammers, which are fundamentally different from New York Steinways.

Unfortunately, techs trained on only one particular make, are not always the best choice for another......

norbert