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#1724946 - 08/02/11 01:33 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1731
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
I just picked this because it's real short. It was meant more to demonstrate the linear playing sound on the CP5 so I probably played more sparse chordal stuff and more lines then I normally would, then again maybe not..

Say for example at around :29 , :48 ,:52, 1:02, 1:06 and a good example, the very last melody note I place a voicing under.
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris/groovin-high-yamaha-cp5

This is probably a more pronounced example where I just played and had no preconceived idea of what I was going to play. At :14 : :20 :26 :32-35 :44 :51 and the whole turnaround at the end of the first form--and basically quite a bit as you can hear throughout the rest of the next chorus. Some block, cluster type structures like David mentioned are in there too.

Whisper Not
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris/whisper-not

Basically you just want to break the texture up so it's not all the same color. It doesn't have to be *what I did* ....just come up with something to take away that sameness vibe or as Terry Trotter used to tell me..."too eighth notey" sounding. It can be something rhythmic, a little Monkish jab with a two note LH voicing for example. Maybe a more sustained voicing in the LH with the RH line against it.

Hope this helps...


Edited by Dave Ferris (08/02/11 01:58 AM)
Edit Reason: added thought
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#1724960 - 08/02/11 01:58 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Nice examples Dave. Thanks for sharing that. One more thing to add to the vocabulary.

My teacher tends to stick to one note lines but he has the capacity to vary the intensity whereas I reach a technical limit. This provides some way to develop that contrast and I've not really been focused by him before to do this.

The only confusion for me is the mix between LH comping and this technique you're doing. Obviously you're doing both. Depending on how you time the LH comp to the top note then it becomes what you're talking about when they coincide.

Right?
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#1724994 - 08/02/11 03:43 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jjo]
chrisbell Offline
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Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1361
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: jjo
It is amazing out Chick (and other giants such as Jarrett) can play the fastest run, but each note is clear as a bell.
No big secret, just 'correct' piano technique.
What I find amazing is not that their lines sound clear, but the musical content of what they play; that's impressive.
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#1725133 - 08/02/11 11:49 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1731
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Nice examples Dave. Thanks for sharing that. One more thing to add to the vocabulary.


Thanks...yeah just another avenue of approach. It's a mix of comping and harmonizing the melody line. It works well for solo and also Trio playing.

Originally Posted By: jazzwee
The only confusion for me is the mix between LH comping and this technique you're doing. Obviously you're doing both. Depending on how you time the LH comp to the top note then it becomes what you're talking about when they coincide.
Right?


not sure I know what you mean there....
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#1725145 - 08/02/11 11:56 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: chrisbell]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1731
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: chrisbell
Originally Posted By: jjo
It is amazing out Chick (and other giants such as Jarrett) can play the fastest run, but each note is clear as a bell.
No big secret, just 'correct' piano technique.
What I find amazing is not that their lines sound clear, but the musical content of what they play; that's impressive.


One of the most profound things ever said to me 30 years was by my teacher at that time, Terry Trotter. I used to gush non-stop over a particular Chick solo or Herbie's playing or something KJ did. One time at a lesson Terry said something like..."you know you'd be better off spending less time putting all these guys up on an unreachable pedestal and spend more time figuring out what it is exactly that makes them so great ". "They did and probably still do the same things you are working on right now".
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#1725161 - 08/02/11 12:24 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: Dave Ferris]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris

not sure I know what you mean there....


I think you just answered it. It's just comping. And some of the comping just coincides with the harmonization of the note in the line.

I appreciate what you're saying here. Normally when I'm playing, I'm trying to think of comping as being in the quiet space where I don't play anything in the RH.

But comping with the solo line is something I haven't consciously applied. Then it goes from being comping to playing block chords.

I do this but I'm not aware of it and so bringing it up here puts it in focus for me so I can more consciously apply it.

There's also rhythmic variations when you use it that shows how my comping gets static when I solo. Good stuff. Thanks.
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#1725177 - 08/02/11 12:50 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: Dave Ferris]
jjo Online   content
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Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 637
Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris

One of the most profound things ever said to me 30 years was by my teacher at that time, Terry Trotter. I used to gush non-stop over a particular Chick solo or Herbie's playing or something KJ did. One time at a lesson Terry said something like..."you know you'd be better off spending less time putting all these guys up on an unreachable pedestal and spend more time figuring out what it is exactly that makes them so great ". "They did and probably still do the same things you are working on right now".


I can definitely see this from your vantage point. Me, I'm a guy with a full time job hoping to get a half hour of good practice in on a weeknight, a bit more on a weekend. I'm never getting to their level, so I'm happy to put them on a pedestal and use them for inspiration. Indeed, I'm pleased that, after studying jazz these past few years,I can now better appreciate what they are really doing.

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#1725201 - 08/02/11 01:22 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Either way, Chick to me is like an athlete. Obviously impossible to copy but one appreciates it nevertheless. I don't lose sleep that I'm never going to sound like Chick. smile You can play the same notes as he does and still not sound like him.

What's actually interesting is that over time we get a new breed of jazz musicians but some of these guys are one time phenomenoms. KJ, Chick, Bill Evans, Tristano, Wynton Kelly, etc.

We don't need to sound like them. But it is useful to analyze why they sound the way they do. Some can be copied at least partially.

Chick is just the hardest to copy IMHO. His technique is just profoundly different. I show videos of him to the classical guys in Pianist Corner and they don't really understand what's going on.

Sure it's detached, pearly playing. But how to do that constantly is the unknown.
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#1725228 - 08/02/11 01:54 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
beeboss Online   content
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Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1202
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: jazzwee

Chick is just the hardest to copy IMHO. His technique is just profoundly different. I show videos of him to the classical guys in Pianist Corner and they don't really understand what's going on.

Sure it's detached, pearly playing. But how to do that constantly is the unknown.


Maybe because he is an immortal alien trapped inside a human body. That must help him I think.
But seriously I don't know if Chick is harder to copy than the other greats. Sure he has that amazing crispness in his lines but I don't see it as any more difficult than the stride of Tatum or the speed of Powell, the angularity of Monk or the fluidity of Jarrett etc.
If you really want to develop that sound then lots of work at staccato scales would probably help, as the clarity of his notes must be due to a fast release of the notes leading to a slightly increased articulation.
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#1725279 - 08/02/11 03:31 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jjo]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1731
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: jjo
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris

One of the most profound things ever said to me 30 years was by my teacher at that time, Terry Trotter. I used to gush non-stop over a particular Chick solo or Herbie's playing or something KJ did. One time at a lesson Terry said something like..."you know you'd be better off spending less time putting all these guys up on an unreachable pedestal and spend more time figuring out what it is exactly that makes them so great ". "They did and probably still do the same things you are working on right now".


I can definitely see this from your vantage point. Me, I'm a guy with a full time job hoping to get a half hour of good practice in on a weeknight, a bit more on a weekend. I'm never getting to their level, so I'm happy to put them on a pedestal and use them for inspiration. Indeed, I'm pleased that, after studying jazz these past few years,I can now better appreciate what they are really doing.


Oh without a doubt. I don't mean to diminish their historical importance or say they shouldn't be a lightning rod for inspiration and growth.

I'm listening to some of those live Soundcloud tracks of Chick and shaking my head. The guy still amazes me even at 70 now !

I think you said it...after putting in some time studying the music and the instrument, the ability to process what these guys are doing just becomes easier.
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#1725317 - 08/02/11 04:24 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Beeboss, since you have so much crispness in your playing, I will take your advice seriously.
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#1725318 - 08/02/11 04:24 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
BTW - what's up with this SoundCloud thing. Something new again? What's the advantage?
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#1725326 - 08/02/11 04:39 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Nefertiti from Chick -- very unique approach to this tune

http://soundcloud.com/chickcorea/nefertitti
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#1725329 - 08/02/11 04:43 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: Dave Ferris]
beeboss Online   content
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Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1202
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris


Nice playing Dave, you always keep the accompaniment interesting and it builds so organically. Shame it was so short. Your piano sounds great
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#1726914 - 08/04/11 10:33 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
Jazz+ Offline
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Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 838
Loc: Banned

Dave,

Interesting accompaniment on "Whisper Not".
What's the secret to your playing there?

J+
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#1727041 - 08/05/11 05:50 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: Dave Ferris]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1361
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris

Really nice Dave . . . grooving!
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#1727314 - 08/05/11 02:29 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1361
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Taking the kids/wife to the sticks, then off to a week's jazz camp (this time I'm all bass).
It'll be interesting to see how much basic technique I actually have . . . and I will be playing piano in the evening jams (as well as tutoring a piano class as well as a theory class.)
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#1727317 - 08/05/11 02:38 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Next week is musically busy for me. Gigs and jams squeezed into one week.

Chris - Double bass?
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#1727733 - 08/06/11 12:45 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
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Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2993
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
2 recordings from last night:

http://www.box.net/shared/qxci0xtekjd8dpka9qxk
http://www.box.net/shared/eocimi9bsk0hvq1ryauz

your thoughts on the rhythm section?

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#1728086 - 08/07/11 05:45 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1361
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: jazzwee

Chris - Double bass?
Oh, yes. smile
Nothing but . . .
For last couple of months I've been at it at first 5 mins, then 10 a day (now up to 2 x 15 ).
Man is it a difficult beast to play, but oh so much fun.
Got my bow yesterday, so now I can give our neighbours cat a run for its money . . .
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#1728088 - 08/07/11 05:52 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: knotty]
chrisbell Offline
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Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1361
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: knotty
2 recordings from last night:
your thoughts on the rhythm section?

K. Solar is really nice! Well played by you and a frisky solo . . yah!

My thought is that if you've got the guitar comping your solo, then you 'should' leave out your LH chords. You both tend to get in each others way.
If you feel the need to throw in a LH chord the keep it legato - or roll them-or play a counterpoint to the solo.
I would like to hear the drummer 'not' play 2-4 on the HighHat.

Of the two I preferred Solar, In Giant Steps I felt as though you all trod on each others toes.
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#1728109 - 08/07/11 07:38 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
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Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2993
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Thanks Chris.
GiantStep was a mess, especially on the 4s. I just wasn't ready for that smile

Enjoy the bass!

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#1728117 - 08/07/11 08:15 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
KlinkKlonk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 365
http://www.amazon.com/Recordings-Quintet-1965-68-Studies-Recorded/dp/0195393848

Saw this on another forum in case anyone's interested. Detailed analyses of the 65-68 records of Davis, Esp, Nefertiti and so on with Tony, Herbie et al. Made me wet my pants at least.

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#1728630 - 08/08/11 01:56 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Knotty, nice work on Solar. Solid solo there. Maybe you're a little overswung for the tempo for my taste...

I think the drummer is at least accenting 2 & 4 well but the ride cymbal pattern is indistinct, like the swing eighth is lost. I was playing against some Aebeorsolds yesterday and it reminded me how good the ride cymbal is with the true masters. Maybe it's too difficult to find a good drummer like that. Of the many drummers I've played with, they're just not good with swing.

Giant Steps -- don't fret. Sounds like our jam sessions. You're not solid yet on the changes. It'll come. You're really close. I think it would have been better to slow it down since the guitar player can't really keep up rhythmically even. Drummer was good on Giant Steps BTW.

Is this a jam? No audience.
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#1728632 - 08/08/11 01:57 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: KlinkKlonk]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: KlinkKlonk
http://www.amazon.com/Recordings-Quintet-1965-68-Studies-Recorded/dp/0195393848

Saw this on another forum in case anyone's interested. Detailed analyses of the 65-68 records of Davis, Esp, Nefertiti and so on with Tony, Herbie et al. Made me wet my pants at least.


Glad they had a Kindle version. I bought it immediately. But this is a complex read since I didn't know many of the tunes. I skipped over the Nefertiti first.

It has some really good detail at least from a fast skim. That's got me excited.
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#1728663 - 08/08/11 06:05 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: KlinkKlonk]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1361
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Thanks for the tip. Looks great!
I can recommend the Kind of Blue book:
http://www.amazon.com/Kind-Blue-Making-M...7896&sr=1-1
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#1728697 - 08/08/11 08:08 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2993
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Thanks JW for listening and for the feedback.
Yes, it's a rehearsal. Was supposed to be an audition, but the sax never showed... So we just played a bunch of random tunes, many I had either not heard or played before.

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#1728903 - 08/08/11 04:45 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
beeboss Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1202
Loc: uk south

I just did my weekly youtube upload
A lively tune by Egberto Gismonti

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMLiOOCdDXM
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#1729232 - 08/09/11 03:53 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Jam session recording - Guitar player does a pretty good George Benson kind of sound.

Recordame
http://www.box.net/shared/mxt7b4nvkclnrkafg8rr

Mr PC - way uptempo for me...But groovin'
http://www.box.net/shared/gtfluidmgt0kkqr402yq

Take 5 - First try for me...Again too uptempo for something new
http://www.box.net/shared/m0gfekl9bp6ii4po865c


Edited by jazzwee (08/09/11 04:07 AM)
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#1729271 - 08/09/11 08:23 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Intermediate/Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2993
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Sounds good JW.
Once thing I would say on Recorda Me, is to practice finishing your lines strongly.

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