Hello everyone! I am new to this forum and have really enjoyed reading the many helpful and entertaining posts. I am really looking for some guidance from any experienced jazz/blues/improv artists that are familiar with the current piano/theory literature out in the market today. I am a classically trained pianist (Level 8+ and been playing on and off for 20 years), BUT I am just that...a very ONE-DIMENSIONAL classically trained pianist. I absolutely love classical music and will continue to pursue my goals in that area, BUT I have an incredible desire to immerse myself in the world of jazz/blues/boogie woogie/etc. I also have an aweful "ear" and can not improvise contemporary tunes worth a hoot and this leaves me with a VERY empty feeling inside. My end goal (x years down the road) is to be a thoroughly proficient jazz/blues/boogie woogie pianist and be able to come up with fantastic improvisations of contemporary tunes. I believe in academics and need to seriously brush up on my theory since I feel that truly understanding and exploring various musical spaces is rooted in well versed theory and inside-out knowledge of chord progressions/linear harmony/etc. I have accumulated a pretty extensive collection of jazz/blues/pop/boogie woogie books and was really hoping that I could get some opinions on where to start!!! If somebody has an order of which they would do first, which ones to pair with others, and which ones need holding off on...that would be incredibly helpful and much appreciated! CLearly this is a life-long journey and I just want to make sure I am getting off on the right foot. I do currently have a classical piano instructor that I plan on continuing with that I am sure could help me out in certain areas if I get stumped. And please, I really don't want to hear any comments about how theory and all these books are a waste of time and I should just sit down and start playing away because that is how all the "greats" did it...will not be very helpful and I respectfully disagree with those opinions. Obviously, years down the road when I have a comprehensive knowledge of jazz theory and and in-depth understanding of all the things being taught in these books and after listening to thousands of songs...then yes I probably will be able to just sit down and use my experience to create some wonderful tunes.

Thanks again in advance and I am very excited to get started on my journey!!

My collection is as follows:

1)“Blues Piano” (Mark Harrison)
2)“Jazz-Blues Piano” (Mark Harrison)
3)“Smooth Jazz Piano” (Mark Harrison)
4)“Intros, Endings, and Turnarounds for Keyboard” (John Valerio)
5)“Playing Keyboard Bass Lines Left-Hand Technique” (John Valerio)
6)“Tons of Runs” (Andy LaVerne)
7)“Improvising Blues Piano” (Tim Richards)
8)“Connecting Chords with Linear Harmony” (Bert Ligon)
9)“Improvisation at the Piano” (Brian Chung)
10)“The Jazz Language” (Dan Haerle)
11)“Jazz Improvisation for Keyboard Players” (Dan Haerle)
12)“Scales for Jazz Improvisation” (Dan Haerle)
13)“Piano Chords & Progressions” (Duane Shinn)
14)“Real Books” Volumes 1-3 (6th Edition)
15)“Thinking in Jazz” (Paul F. Berliner)
16)“Comprehensive Technique for Jazz Musicians” (Bert Ligon)
17)“Jazz Theory Resources: Volumes 1 & 2” (Bert Ligon)
18)“Jazzology” (Robert Rawlins)
19)“Metaphors for the Musician” (Randy Halberstadt)
20)“Reharmonization Techniques” (Randy Felts)
21)“Learn Boogie Woogie Piano” (Colin Davey)
22)“Boogie Woogie: Hanon Piano” (Leo Alfassy)
23)“How to Play from a Fake Book” (Blake Neely)
24)“Solo Jazz Piano: The Linear Approach” (Neil Olmstead)
25)“The Pop Piano Book + CD” (Mark Harrison)

My goodness what a lot of books. I know professional jazz musicians who have less books than that.
Please have a few lessons with a teacher who understands something about jazz and improvisation, and who can show you how to progress with the many resources you already have.
Get some playalongs and start improvising, get out some jazz records and use your ears to work out some of what is going on, sing along with some jazz vocalists (when nobody is listening) and get used to following sequences and feeling different rhythms.
Best to have a few lessons though.

I have read all your books and my best advice is to focus only on two of them:

“Metaphors for the Musician” (Randy Halberstadt)

“Connecting Chords with Linear Harmony” (Bert Ligon)


AND of course:

“Real Books” Volumes 1-3 (6th Edition)

Thanks for the prompt replies! I definitely am going to take a few lessons to make sure I am on the right track once I get going...definitely good advice. And Jazz+, even for a complete newcomer into this form of music, you would still focus on just these two? None of the more preperatory books first? If not then that is terrific and I will take your advice. Both books look excellent and seem to have received rave reviews. Thanks again for your input and I welcome and encourage any more input that you two or anyone else has to offer.

Best,
David

I remember for my very first lesson my teacher started me on left hand chords for soloing - do you know major, dominant and minor ?

This reminds me, Kenny Werner had a student who came to him with tons of books.. and kenny basically told him to forget about all the books.

I think the problem with jazz, or music in general is that there is so much you CAN work on, but it's really hard to narrow down what you NEED to work on. That's where teachers can be helpful.

btw you should check out Kenny Werner's site

http://kennywernerlive.com/

He does telewebinars periodically, and although it's not specifically for classical musician playing jazz.. he does give some great advice on what classical musician should start on. He talks about how classical musicians should start by just improvising ANYTHING, to get comfortable with the act of improv itself.

I mean something like what Gyro does(which he has repeated millions of times in the forum) can be very helpful for someone who has never improvised

Yes, I probably should have been a little more clear on my playing abilities. I have been playing classical for about 20 years and understand a good deal of the theory behind it, BUT I have neglected my theory studies for some time now and it seems jazz has so much complex theory working at many different levels. A very different type of structure and sound that is truly difficult to wrap my mind around. I figured that it should be an easy transition since I can play some pretty nice classical pieces, but that is not the case. There is more going on in jazz and blues than I would have ever imagined and it was a bit depressing when I realized that 20 years of playig classical piano really is not that big of a leg up when trying to delve into the world of jazz and blues. Sure I can read music and understand a moderate anmount of theory, and yes I have the technical capability of pulling off some cool runs (practiced plenty of scales, arpeggios, trills, etc in my day), but it is still not easy at all!! And I never learned to use my EARS because I always just read from the score! Oh well, at least I am trying to make some strides now...never too late.

David

I don't believe you need any books or instruction to
improvise. Right now you can play difficult classical pieces
that are more complicated than most jazz/popular
pieces, so all you need to do is to transfer your already
significant classical piano skills to jazz/popular piano.
And, in my experience, the easiest way to do that is to
just start improvising, purely by ear, with no concern for
any theory. That is, sit down at the piano and just start
to play by ear, whatever comes to your fingers.

When you do this for the first time, you'll probably be
surprised at how seemingly impressive you can be at
improvising. However, the second time you do it, you'll
probably begin to be very dissatisfied. The novelty of
that first time doing something you've never attempted before
will have worn off, and now you want more control over what
you're doing. But like anything at the piano, improvisation takes
practice, a lot of it. Over time, with practice, you'll begin to
be able to know what you need to press on the keyboard in
order to get the sound you want. And you're doing this all
purely by ear without analyzing any of the things you're playing
in terms of music theory.

Improvising really teaches you about the piano and what you
can do on it, and about music, better than you can learn from
any book or teacher.

I knew Gyro would pipe up, he loves the fresh meat! hahah

Thanks etcetera, I will definitely check out the Kenny Werner site...sounds it like it has a lot of useful info and instruction on it. And for Gyro, I do appreciate what you have to say. I feel I just have a mnetal block in my head for improvising...it is just something that I thought I could not do. Perhaps the first step is mentally getting rid of that block (which will be extremely hard but must be done I know). Hmm, well I don't want to lean to any one extreme, so I think my first step will eb to read through the two books recommended by Jazz+ just to understand what is going on, and then take the etcetera/Gyro approach and just sit at the piano (no matter how painful it is) and just free my mind and try to improvise. I have never responded well to this approach but perhaps I was not focusing hard enough. I feel there is so much musci in me that wants to come out...I can hear everything in my head at it sounds incredible! And I do a lot of my most critical classical practicing in my head while I am at work or on a walk...but even with that I still can not translate exotic tunes from my head to the keyboard. Ok, all this is great advice! Thanks everyone for shiping in...it means a lot to me to get advice from other enthusiastic musicians.

Cheers,
David

Wizard of Oz,

well what Gyro says has it's place..

Hedgeman26,

I think it's important at first to just improvise with complete disregard for whether it's right or wrong. Maybe you can do free jazz, with no harmonic/rhythmic context. Or maybe even hit one not, and hit it in different rhythm but not in meter..or hit random combination of notes and enjoy the sound that comes out of it heck you can even tap the foot pedal rhythmically or use your elbows to play.. pretend like you are a kid who knows nothing about music and play.

Then after that you can just start improvising using notes from the white keys or black keys only.

I think ultimately what we do in jazz is to let go of our expectations and just play.. its just that we are trained so that we can respond harmonically/rhythmically to a given context, like a tune.. but the essential attitude is still the same as a little kid banging on the piano.

Have you looked into Alan Swain's 4-Way Keyboard System? Good stuff.

Hi Hedgeman26,

Here are 15 new ideas I recommend to wayward classical, including some pertinent jazz and classical pianists.

01. Art Tatum for his thinking and leaping technique on Piano Starts Here, The Definitive Art Tatum
02. Bill Evans for his tone and voicings, studied and recorded by Jean-Yves Thidbaudet; otherwise, I am especially fond of Evans' New Jazz Conceptions
03. Eldar Djangirov has lots of chops and quick ideas that might interest you
04. George Russell and Bill Evans for Lydian concerts in The RCA Victor Workshop
05. Giancinto Scelsi's 'Un Adieu' could suggest augmenting contemporary pianism in your jazz
06. Jessica Williams could inspire improvisational motifs
07. John Lewis of the Modern Jazz Quartet has done quite a bit of 3d stream (classical+ jazz) e.g. Odds Against Tomorrow; BTW - John Lewis has recorded J. S. Bach
08. Keith Jarrett for his beautiful use of keyboard zones and much more in jazz piano; Keith Jarrett has recorded piano music from Alan Hovhaness and other classical composers
09. Marcus Roberts who improvises on Gershwin: Rhapsody on his Blue on Portraits in Blue
10. Martial Solal is incredible and I think you might enjoy his piano playing as on Improvise pour France Music
11. Matthew Shipp is a modernist you need to watch carefully e.g. Harmonic Disorder
12. Salvatore Sciarrrino's 'Etude De Concert' could be a pianistic inspiration
13. Thelonius Monk studied classical music according to Kelly's recent bio, so I'll suggest you get close to his just-enough pianism on his Riverside recordings
14. Uri Caine as jazz pianist among other forms has some things to say you might find agreeable
15. William Masselos plays Dane Rudhyar's Stars in a way I adore

How about your creative ideas as you go along?!


Stay tuned,

Jim

One trouble with starting out with free improvisation is that there a no goalposts so it is very hard to track any progress that is being made. I do think it is important to do but it should be blended with other approaches.

One excercise I believe works wonders and really goes to the core of improvisation is this...

Just put a metronome on a medium speed and just play even notes taken from the C major scale with just the right hand.
What Etcetra said is very important - don't worry about playing 'wrong' notes. Best not even to think about choosing notes, just let any ones come out, don't force them. Don't try to play melodies you know or make up good sounding patterns of notes, just let it all happen without any engagement. It is important to listen very very closely to what is happening, especially rythmically. Just concentrate on playing the notes 100% in time. If you like you can bring in some dynamics into it or sing along with the notes you are playing, or play with some different articulations.

If you are finding this very easy then put the metronome on a little faster, if it is difficult then try it slower. Do this for at least 5 or 10 minutes at one tempo. Hopefully after a few minutes you should reach a zone where the notes are just playing themselves without any effort from you at all. That is the feeling to cultivate.

If you are getting bored try a different selection of notes (from a different scale) and maybe try it with the left hand, or do both hands together.

By doing this you are improving your rhythm, improving your ears, and improving your creative abilities.

This excercise it great for players at any level. To stop getting bored you gradually ramp up the difficulty - it can be done at any speed, in any rhythm, over imagined sequences, in any groove, using any scale. But it must always be effortless. I try to do this a little every day with a specific goal, for instance subdiving the beat into 5's and playing with different scales with each hand, or speeding up left hand improviation in triplets over augamented scales or whatever. It's limitless.

Forget the Gyro approach.

What you need are less books (I agree no more than Jazz+'s).

But you need to invest that money buying TONS OF JAZZ TUNES. Get yourself an Ipod/MP3 player and load up. Half of what I do in Jazz is listening.

Then save up the rest of the money for the teacher.

Sorry but I don't think you can self-teach yourself Jazz beyond the theory.

Hedgeman26,

btw speaking of books, you can check out Kenny Werner's "Effortless Masterly"

beeboss,

That's a very good approach. I guess I suggested doing complete free jazz at first, because some people have this innate fear of improvising, and I think it's important to tackle that problem alone. For some people It may take couple of days days or weeks.. but I agree that eventually you would need a method and yours is an excellent one.

This reminds me of the Kenny Werner Play along in the abersold catalog.. from what i remember there is a track which is basically playing time with no fixed harmonic context

jazzwee,

I wouldn't discredit Gyro's method, esp if you are new to improv and you are intimidated by it. I think having all this big expectations can really get in the way of progress, and can make you even more afraid of improvising. I agree that listening to a lot of jazz is a great idea(btw you can get a lot of great stuff on youtube&myspace without having to buy any of the music), but you would be devastated if you are a beginner expecting to play like bill evans.

It's probably best to set expectations(little by little) only after you feel comfortable doing free, or simple improv. Gyro's approach won't make you a good player by any stretch of imagination, but at least it will give you a taste of what improv can be like.

Wow, some incredibly helpful advice! It seems a common theme is the notion that I am really better served committing myself to a jazz teacher along with my current classical one. I do agree with that being that I would have probably gotten nowhere with my classical studies if it were not for solid teachers over the years. And several people seem to be very big fans of Kenny Werner...his website is top on my list to peruse and his books look very interesting...will definitely invest some time tehre as well. And dailyjazztweets, thanks for 15 part "to-do" list! That is exactly the kind of info I was looking for!
Yeah, I know I probably went overkill on collecting jazz books but I guess that is the obsessive academic in me coming out...it seems from most of the replies that I need to forget the way I approached classical music and really just be free with the keyboard...of course with some good guidance from a teacher and two or three books tops.
And the metronome idea with beeboss is very clever...I will definitely try that out and see what happens at different speeds. I think the hardest part at first will just be getting used to the varying rhythyms and the workings of "fourths" instead of the classic fifth.
I have started downloading a ton of stuff on my ipod including of course Oscar Peterson and Keith Jarrett to just name a few. Thanks to some of the posts here I have a much better odea of what and who to listen to...much more downloading to follow in the next few days.
I will definitely keep the board posted on my progress and even try and post some recordings of my first jazz and improv attempts...might be a trainwreck though. Or perhaps I might wait till I actually have some interesting things to share...hopefully wont be too long!

AND, if anyone knows of an excellent jazz/blues/boogie woogie/improv piano instructor in the Houston TX area...please let me know!! There are tons of classical instructors but it seems nearly impossible to find a really experienced and accomplished jazz teacher/professional. I know there have to be a few but I am just having no luck searching on the internet. Perhaps some teachers from local universities? I dont know...any help in this area would be fantastic!!

Thanks again everyone!

David

You've asked a lot about what books you should start studying, but you haven't asked about what you should start listening to. To learn jazz, you need to listen to it, preferably every day. This will begin your journey away from the written page, which is the focus of classicial music. The books will focus on harmony and melody, but the foundation of jazz is rhythm, you've got to listen a ton to get the feel for that. In my jazz studies, the simple act of playing with real swing has been much harder then learning notes or harmony (which are hard, too!). Listening will also help your ear. Listen, for example, to the rhythm section and ignore the melody in a solo. What are they doing? If you'd like, and I'm sure teh folks here can recommend some good, basic CDs.

Good point jjo, yeah I am beginning to realize after reading a bunch or replies that my initial focus on "books" might not be the best approach. An earlier post mentioned around 15 or so good recordings/artists to check out which I will definitely do. Who would you recommend? I definitely am going to try and build up a good colelction on my ipod and really immerse myself for a few hours a day. I love music more than anything (except for family) so practicing and listening to music is a complete pleasure, not a chore. My wife thinks I am a bit overboard at times but I can't help it...you either get it or you don't. Taking her to see Gershwin tomorrow night at the Houston Symphony so hopefully she will get a kick out of it and get a littel interested. Oh, and I did contact a local jazz musician/teacher here in Houston...just waiting for a call back now. David Brake is his name...has a tremendous resume and looks like he really knows his stuff. I hope it works out.

David

From your list of books, I'd say you're a lot like me. I'll be attracted by a new book, start working with, get something from it, but then get distracted with a new book.

I am trying to avoid this by writing down a few specific goals for the next several months, and trying to stick to accomplishing those.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one! Yeah, my attention does seem to drift from one thing to another...focusing is definitely the key. And nice sightreading blog! Looks very interesting...I will have to read through it.

I also buy too many books, you're not alone. I second the Bert Ligon book. Very useful, allthough not sure how useful it would be for a beginner.
Jazz tonal harmony isn't that advanced, you have most of it in your impromptu you're learning already. If you absolutely (and I know you can't resist) need another book, get the Mark Levine Jazz piano book. Just have in mind that Levine is a 100% chord scale relationship fan, so the Ligon book should be a good compliment.

But yeah, get a teacher, transcribe solos and tunes, freak out and all that jazz.

If you want to listen to recordings, people could argue endlessly, but here are some consensus classics that will show you a range of styles:
Duke Ellington: almost anything
Charlie Parker: same
Miles Davis: Kind of Blue
Wes Montgomery: Smokin at the Half Note
John Coltrane: Blue Trane and A Love Supreme
Herbie Hancock: Maiden Voyage
Wayne Shorter: Speak No Evil
Bill Evans: Live at the Village Vanguard
Chick Corea: Now He Sings, Now He Sobs
Keith Jarrett: Any of the Standard Trio

wow what a list i have to save this thread just for that list of books!. There's been alot of jazz advice which seems very good but i'll throw in an idea for boogie woogie: i'm wondering if you're playing any things like 12 bar blues style but more of a boogie bass? (c c e c g c a g) There's the guy on youtube that teaches with the whiteboard (shawncheek or something like that) and he has a rendition of jerry lee lewis' Whole lotta Shakin'....check out the chord inversions he uses for that and then play them over the boogie bass and then move them way up the keyboard with the right hand and play them 8 to the bar, that's a start. Then you could also play this basic boogie bass pattern and just start playing melodies over that....swannee river is one that works well as in swannee river boogie but you could even play it boogie style with the LH and then try and work in the melody somewhat traditionally for a start with the RH. There's other people of course on youtube playing various boogie songs to give you ideas but just starting by playing that boogie bass and then either doing a jamming 8 to the bar up high with the right or melodies like swannee river, chatanooga choo choo (have to modify the progression a bit for this i think there's a Bb min in there on the turnaround) ....but there's also another guy on youtube doing Whole lotta shakin that takes it to the jammin' 8 to the bar up high style that i was mentioning; but yea i'd say just check out some youtube videos once you get the bass down for inspiration and ideas for songs.

Thanks KlinkKlonk, yeah I heard the Mark Levine book is great...but yeah I agree, hoping to get with a teacher soon...just waiting for a call back from one I heard was real good.
Perfect jjo, thanks for the list of recordings! I will definitely get those on my ipod as soon as I can...already been listening to as much as possible this weekend! I really appreciate you taking the time to list those!
Sounds interesting limavady...I will definitely have to search youtube for those videos! Getting that bass down is essential and I am a complete beginner in that respect so will be real nice to check out a few instructional videos. Was doing some basic left hand boogie exercises last night...just trying to get comfortable moving up and down the keyboard. Actually some similarities in some respects to some classical etudes I have played that work out the left hand...BUT yeah, rhythym and structure definitely make for a new feeling. A lot of fun to say the least.
Well, I have a ton of advice now from multiple members and definitely have my hands full! Hopefully will get a few hours in today on the piano and a few more for just listening. I will definitely post my progress and hopefully get a good recording setup so I can share some stuff once get past a few beginning hurdles.
What a great forum...thanks again everyone!

Cheers,
David