Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#1350143 - 01/15/10 03:02 AM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: Wizard of Oz]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Nope, can't say I know who the latest rap "artists" are, nor do I care to know. The reason that kids don't sight-read very well has nothing to do with it not being natural. It's because not nearly enough importance is placed on sight-reading in the teaching process. There are a lot of uninformed "teachers" (many of whom leave me scratching my head), who really shouldn't be teaching, because of the lack of their own ability in regard to that which they should be teaching. Ear training is, certainly, important and should be taught along with sight reading and other skills, but, definitely not the basis, by which one should form a foundation solely.
The "classical" approach is not flawed. How that approach is administered, however, often is.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


Top
(ad) My Music Staff
Check out the new way to manage your music studio
#1350145 - 01/15/10 03:10 AM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: MomOfBeginners]
Wizard of Oz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 873
I am not saying that reading is unimportant, for classical music it would be needed. And obviously very difficult to play a high level score entirely by ear.

But for all other types of music the ear is of utmost importance.

My early piano training was all classical. I got frustrated because I couldn't play simple tunes by ear. If I heard a song I liked on TV or the radio and didn't have the score I would be lost.

So I taught myself to play by ear, and THAT has opened up a whole new world. Comparing music to literacy is slightly off because with music, reading isn't that important, but in life being illiterate can be crippling.

In jazz often times you are playing with several other musicians at the same time. You need to have a good ear to have a musical "conversation" with the other players and not clash.

In classical you play mostly solo so that skill set is not utilized.

Top
#1350149 - 01/15/10 03:20 AM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: Wizard of Oz]
Wizard of Oz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 873
If sight reading is so important then how did all those rock and roll guitar players learn? Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, BB King, Van Halen, Eric Johnson, Steve Vai. These guys are virtuosos and bloody great musicians.

Ask most guitar players and they'll say they were listen to records in their room and playing those tunes by ear. Nobody who plays guitar would only play by sight-reading. They'd be looked at as nuts and their fellow guitarists would wonder why they can't pick up the tune by ear.

Top
#1350150 - 01/15/10 03:23 AM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: Wizard of Oz]
LimeFriday Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 303
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Wizard of Oz

The classical approach is seriously flawed.


The classical approach is different - not flawed. You seem to be threatened by that difference and determined to attack and derail many useful threads from people who are enjoy the classical approach. You didn't enjoy it... that's fine - but many do.

Top
#1350156 - 01/15/10 03:38 AM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: LimeFriday]
Wizard of Oz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 873
Originally Posted By: LimeFriday
Originally Posted By: Wizard of Oz

The classical approach is seriously flawed.


The classical approach is different - not flawed. You seem to be threatened by that difference and determined to attack and derail many useful threads from people who are enjoy the classical approach. You didn't enjoy it... that's fine - but many do.




Not threatened at all. I learned classical piano up to the highest grade level for my country and found the approach to be lacking to be a complete musician. It did not prepare me to play in a church worship band, nor taught me how to play jazz, or pop tunes off the radio. Like many others, without the sheet music I was literally lost.

If all you want to do is play music from a score and nothing else, then that's fine. If you want to learn how to play in a trio, accompany a singer, compose, improvise, then you better start developing your ear.

Top
#1350160 - 01/15/10 03:44 AM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: Wizard of Oz]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5920
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Wizard of Oz
In classical you play mostly solo so that skill set is not utilized.
That comment alone shows how little you know.

You remind me very much of another poster who was really only interested in jazz, like you, but amused himself by coming to the classical forum and stirring up the people who loved classical with this sort of stuff. (Granted, he was a bit more articulate, but apart from that he was similar)

Now think of it like this, O Wiz - would you be annoyed if the classical players came over to the non-classical forum just when you were discussing something interesting and started with "jazz is flawed, you have it all wrong, you should all be playing Beethoven"..? Not that anyone has, as we apparently have too much sense and not as much idle time on our hands as you. But it would be pointless, would it not?

Then ask yourself why you are doing the same thing?

_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

Top
#1350161 - 01/15/10 03:46 AM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: Wizard of Oz]
LimeFriday Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 303
Loc: Australia
I started in jazz and improvisation... I performed with singers and with other musicians. I enjoyed and still enjoy every moment of it. I can play pop songs from the radio and can play without music. Though I could read music - I didn't have to rely on it.

But I also feel that the classical approach is equally essential for musical literacy. I felt there were great holes in my musical education and ability having not learned the classical approach.

So twenty years ago I began learning classical. I wished I'd started earlier. Having a good ear is all very well... but being able to play classically provides a far greater technical challenge... and provides a much better foundation from which to make a choice about where you want to go with music.

Sight reading and being able to read from a score and play what you read provides great pleasure than being able to play by ear... and opens up far more opportunities for musicians.

Top
#1350164 - 01/15/10 03:50 AM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: Wizard of Oz]
kevinb Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 1565
Originally Posted By: Wizard of Oz
To really know the intention of the composer you'd have to listen to him play it. Back then of course there were no CD's or recording devices so the only way was to write it down.

I bet if Rach or Mozart or Beethoven were alive today and played some of their works, it would sound somewhat different each time. They would be altering and changing the dynamics depending on their mood. Musicians do this all the time.

The classical genre has a strict attitude that all the notes must be played exactly as written and with the recommended dynamics. Hogwash!! You get Bach to play one of his preludes 10 times now and you'd find variations and probably even different notes to the melody. Bach would be tinkering and improvising to his heart's liking. In fact, he's probably doing exactly just that upstairs as we speak.


There's an absolute world of difference between slavish dedication to the printed score, and what amounts to improvisation on a classical theme. The idea that the purpose of sight-reading is to foster dogmatic adherence to the whims of the composer (or editor, more likely) is completely wrong.

If you want to play the classical repertoire, with even a reasonable approximation of what the composer intended, you need to be able to read. Either that, or you need to develop an _exceptionally_ good ear and have a great deal of patience and an understanding family.

After about 40 years of playing by ear and improvising, I reckon I'm reasonably competent at it. But I'm never going to be able to improvise or compose like Bach and Mozart, even if I had a dozen lifetimes to work on it.

But I can _play_ the great music that those guys left us, because I've put the effort into developing tolerable score-reading skills.

If you don't want to play the classical repertoire -- and many people don't -- then whether you want to spend time on sight reading is much more a matter of personal preference. For my part, even for jazz I find reasonable score-reading an advantage. Unless you're doing it face to face, it's hard even to communicate musical ideas in any other way.

I never learned to read music when I was a kid because I didn't have to. I had a natural gift for playing by ear and an intuitive understanding of melody and harmony. These things served me well for a long time, but when I decided that I did want to play some of the classical repertoire, I found that I couldn't do a good job of it with the skills I had. I'm pretty sure that learning to read music in your 40's is much more painful than learning it before you're 10.

Top
#1350172 - 01/15/10 04:05 AM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: LimeFriday]
Wizard of Oz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 873
The best benefit I got from classical was the technique and fingering. The actual physical playing, where all those scale drills build up dexterity. But the sight-reading part I found a burden and hindrance.

currawong, you aren't talking about BJones are you? Man that cat was funny, too bad he's gone now.

I wouldn't be annoyed at all, in fact I welcome you to come over anytime. We're doing a thread on the ABF for jazz intermediate/advanced. See if you can add something of value, but since you don't play jazz I doubt it.

This argument isn't about jazz vs classical. It's about the relative importance of ear training vs sight-reading.
You may think sight-reading has greater value, I disagree.

My classical teacher didn't show me any ear training and that lack of skill showed itself when I tried to play other styles.

Funny how the piano teachers association here hired a jazz pianist friend of mine to teach them how to improvise. They knew their training was not complete. What I'm trying to do is to open your eyes that the classical method of teaching piano is flawed and incomplete.

Why do so many people who used to take piano lessons as a kid say they hated it and quit, but wished they learned again but with a fun and different approach. Look at the methods like Sudnow, Piano Magic, Play piano in a flash...etc..why are they popping up.

If you are taking offense to what I post, then that's your problem.

Top
#1350182 - 01/15/10 04:30 AM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: Wizard of Oz]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5243
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Wizard of Oz
If you are taking offense to what I post, then that's your problem.
Well... communication is a two way street, don't you think? You actually believe that someone taking offense to what YOU post has nothing to dowith what YOU post at all? Give me a break...

Now, onto the rather silly debate.

I play classical music, I play with bands, I play in piano bars with a great singer (amazing actually and very beautiful and... not my wife! LOL). I'm emabarrashed to attempt even to admit I know jazz, cause I don't. I don't listen to jazz, so I wouldn't be able to comment much on that.

But I'm rather annoyed to the idea that improvisation is limited to jazz, that some people seem to imply. And also rather annoyed to the comparison between apples and oranges. Both are interesting, tasteful and useful.

This year (2009-2010) I extended my lessons by 15 minutes more each day, to a couple of my students to accomodate more theory. This involves mainly writing in scores, and reading from scores. I also tried sight reading (something which they've never heard about) and explained the necessity of it. And then I had them singing their favorite song... :-/

I doubt one can be a 'complete' musician (when playing classical at least) without skills in reading, listening, playing, thinking, etc. and sure, in the film music/computer games music world there are tons of 'whistlers' (Zimmer and Elfman are said to not being able to read music) so it's very doubtful if this means much. But it also should be noted the army of people behind these people who MAKE the music work (by notating scores, orchestrating, making parts, etc).
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

Top
#1350194 - 01/15/10 04:50 AM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: MomOfBeginners]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2457
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: MomOfBeginners

I do think that learning to read music gives so much more empowerment. My daughter once asked me why she had to learn to read. I told her that it's so that she can read books and learn from others. She told me "But all I have to do is listen to books-on-tape.". Maybe that's true, but her reading would be restricted to only to where she can have access to books-on-tape. I want her to be the person producing the books-on-tape, not listening to it.


Your point of view I find to be sad, MomOfBeginners. It is a utilitarian point of view, not the words of someone who loves to read.

Your daughter's comment is charming, no need to prove her wrong.

Top
#1350197 - 01/15/10 04:55 AM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: Nikolas]
Wizard of Oz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 873
Nikolas, I was giving advice to the OP regarding her child not wanting to learn to sight read. This debate has NOTHING to do with classical or jazz music.

It has to do with how to keep that child active and interested in learning music when they don't want to sight-read. I suggested to let the child play by ear and when they are ready or find reading useful to add it.

Funny that I haven't heard a single piece of good advice from any of you guys. So, are you going to force that kid to sight-read and make him or her hate learning music?

As I said before, I would MUCH rather have a good ear than good sight-reading. To have both is great, but for my personal application to music, the ear is essential and the eye is not.

Now, getting back to the topic, exactly how would you go about motivating that kid who doesn't want to sight-read?

Top
#1350200 - 01/15/10 05:10 AM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: Wizard of Oz]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5243
Loc: Europe
Well... you can imagine that the thread derailed a tiny bit...

I don't think that the 'issue' with sight reading is far apart an 'issue' with math or history.

It has to do with:
a. bad teaching
or
b. no insentive

As you saw from my post my personal doings in teaching is applying all. I'm primarily a composer, so I find the importance of ear training (and inner ear actually) to be great.

The thread derailed, as I said above, but bottom line is this: If someone managed to find a way to explain to a little kid the usefulness of sight reading it will be great. I, personally, find that this skill should be developed 'later' in life, rather than the age of 6-7 years old. Listening and ear training happens the minute you start playing the piano, instinctively.

But it does remain that you blur the line between what you find useful (as you mention in your very last post, and thanks for that) and what is universally agreed as useful. Because while you said "... my personal application to music...", which is exactly that: personal, while on another post you mention "teaching classical music is flawed", which is not personal, but appears as some universal truth! wink

And to be clear: My PERSONAL approach to music is attempting to be whole: Let them listen (brought a DVD of Messiaens works a few months ago and they hated it :D), let them see concerts (took them to concerts, along with a few parents), let them realise the beauty of music (played Lady GAGA on the piano, and then some Chopin), let them realise their potential, by pushing them lightly to learn harder pieces, new pieces they've never heard of, songs, etc, and teaching them everything about music, from the golden ratio, to Bachs primary number use, to the life of most Romantic composers who barely reached 30 years of age, to the meaning of motifs in Wagners music, and whatnot. Referencing makes it possible.
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

Top
#1350201 - 01/15/10 05:20 AM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: landorrano]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: landorrano
Originally Posted By: MomOfBeginners

I do think that learning to read music gives so much more empowerment. My daughter once asked me why she had to learn to read. I told her that it's so that she can read books and learn from others. She told me "But all I have to do is listen to books-on-tape.". Maybe that's true, but her reading would be restricted to only to where she can have access to books-on-tape. I want her to be the person producing the books-on-tape, not listening to it.


Your point of view I find to be sad, MomOfBeginners. It is a utilitarian point of view, not the words of someone who loves to read.

Your daughter's comment is charming, no need to prove her wrong.


For as "charming" as it may have been, I think it a sad reflection on society in general today. Why read the book...I'll watch the movie. Why read the book...I'll listen to it instead; i.e. entertain me so I don't have to put forth too much effort. It's too bad so many don't take the time to trigger their imagination between the covers of a great book.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


Top
#1350205 - 01/15/10 05:26 AM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: stores]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5243
Loc: Europe
Just a note that I find books, and especially notation (scores) to be a form of art in itself! smile (just a BTW comment)
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

Top
#1350209 - 01/15/10 05:31 AM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: Nikolas]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2457
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Just a note that I find books, and especially notation (scores) to be a form of art in itself! smile (just a BTW comment)


I second the motion!

Top
#1350211 - 01/15/10 05:43 AM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: stores]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2457
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: stores


For as "charming" as it may have been, I think it a sad reflection on society in general today.


I get your point, but I think that you are mistaken. You must have forgotten some things from your own childhood. Hearing a story or a book read to you is not a passive activity.

I don't know exactly what "books-on-tape" are, but even so I'd wager that kids that listen often to this sort of thing also read voraciously.


Edited by landorrano (01/15/10 05:43 AM)

Top
#1350213 - 01/15/10 05:49 AM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: landorrano]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5243
Loc: Europe
books-on-tape are normal books read by... actors. I always thought they were for people with hearing problems and I found them a good idea, but if someone is using it instead of reading... bleh...
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

Top
#1350217 - 01/15/10 06:24 AM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: Nikolas]
Wizard of Oz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 873
What I should say is that the current method of teaching classical music is INCOMPLETE, rather than flawed. Just as there are faults in the jazz schools and pedagogy, which I won't get into here.

Being the best musician is like being the best athlete, you need to train in all areas. My experience with classical training found it lacking in some skills that could transfer to other arenas of music. Had I not learned them I would have been stuck.

Just the same with some of the posters saying they wished they had learned to sight-read better.

I like how the Suzuki method emphasizes ear training but that still seems to be the minority. There are others who are using an audiation approach like Edwin Gordon.

Ultimately learning music is a personal endeavor where one needs to be self-taught and motivated. Same with pushing kids into sports they aren't ready or excited to play. If a child loves music then it becomes easy.

Top
#1350219 - 01/15/10 06:28 AM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: currawong]
Wizard of Oz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 873
Originally Posted By: currawong
Originally Posted By: Wizard of Oz


Not that anyone has, as we apparently have too much sense and not as much idle time on our hands as you.




currawong you seem to have enough idle time to reply to every post I've made on the Teachers or Corners forums lately. Are you stalking me? Hahaha.

For the record, are you a guy or girl. Just want to be sure.

Top
#1350221 - 01/15/10 06:34 AM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: Wizard of Oz]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5243
Loc: Europe
oz: But an athlete is expert in ONE sport, not many, and practicing differers greatly amongst athletes...

If you think about it weight lifters, or discus throwers are some heavy 'monsters' (<- notice the " please), who would probably fail to jump 2 feet of the ground, never mind 6... laugh

:-/

The current method of teaching classical music is the one that each teacher uses... And yes,I will agree that there is too much emphasis on scores.
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

Top
#1350230 - 01/15/10 06:59 AM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: Wizard of Oz]
Canonie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 1941
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Wizard of Oz
For the record, are you a guy or girl. Just want to be sure.

I hope this answers your question

Currawong is a

wink
_________________________

Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.

Top
#1350245 - 01/15/10 07:56 AM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: Wizard of Oz]
kevinb Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 1565
Originally Posted By: Wizard of Oz
What I should say is that the current method of teaching classical music is INCOMPLETE, rather than flawed. Just as there are faults in the jazz schools and pedagogy, which I won't get into here.

[...]

Just the same with some of the posters saying they wished they had learned to sight-read better.


Generally, the common methods for teaching the classical repertoire are intend to teach people how to play ... the classical repertoire. I conceded that there seems to be an assumption that learning to play `the piano' amounts to learning to play classical piano, and perhaps that is regrettable. Nevertheless, I think most people understand that when they sign their kids up for `piano lessons' (rather than `jazz piano' or whatever), they're aiming primarily at Bach and Beethoven and such.

My experience is that kids who have a good ear don't need any encouragement to improvise and play by ear. They will do it for fun. Often they will make good progress with even the most modest teaching and encouragement.

Sight-reading is different. Most kids (in my experience) don't enjoy learning to do it, although they may well enjoy the results of being able to do it.

So how do you motivate a child to practice sight reading? I don't know. But I do think that the approach you advocate -- essentially not doing it, because there are more productive things -- is a mistake. It's a mistake because sight reading is much easier to learn when you're young (like many things). Kids don't know what their future interests are going to be, and I think we do them a disservice if we let them opt out of things that we -- adults -- realize will be hugely beneficial in later life.

My own approach with kids and sight-reading essentially centres on bribery.

Top
#1350341 - 01/15/10 10:37 AM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: CebuKid]
C.Y. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/30/08
Posts: 391
Originally Posted By: cebukid70

She is a great "rote learner", play-by-ear, and memorizer of her pieces... The thing is, she's not the best of sight readers.



2.) She also plays, from memory, her more advanced pieces. She is currently working on Bach's "Minuet in G". She pretty much "rote learns" these more advanced pieces, but during this learning, her teacher tries to get her to read the notes too.


Probably when she is learnning a new piece, don't play it for her to listen. Just ask her to figure out the notes without hearing it first.
I don't think you need to worry about it even her sight reading is several levels below her playing level, I think that is quite normal. Her sight reading is going to advance just like her playing does.

Top
#1350731 - 01/15/10 07:31 PM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: Canonie]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5920
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Canonie
Nice pikky, Canonie. We haven't had so many lately - more magpies (Saw two of them taking a splashy bath in a puddle this morning).
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

Top
#1350803 - 01/15/10 10:11 PM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: currawong]
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
When you are a child you speak and think as a child thinks...that's a child's reality. With education and life's experience your inner world and outer world bloom to be so much more. We participate in both worlds. One is public and one is private.

In conversation we can state the things we are aligned about or we can concentrate on the differences or we can remain neutral.

We can think, talk. If we don't learn to read and write we've limited our participation in the world.

Contemplating one's belly button day in and day out is lonely and non-productive. The more posters say the same old, same old predictable things the more I consider they are talking to themselves because they enjoy the sound of their "voices".

To not get caught up in repetitive redundance, the ignore button comes in handy.

And, Billy Joel is a Julliard graduate, isn't he? Oh.

Top
#1350805 - 01/15/10 10:22 PM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: Wizard of Oz]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: Wizard of Oz
To really know the intention of the composer you'd have to listen to him play it. Back then of course there were no CD's or recording devices so the only way was to write it down.

I bet if Rach or Mozart or Beethoven were alive today and played some of their works, it would sound somewhat different each time. They would be altering and changing the dynamics depending on their mood. Musicians do this all the time.

The classical genre has a strict attitude that all the notes must be played exactly as written and with the recommended dynamics. Hogwash!! You get Bach to play one of his preludes 10 times now and you'd find variations and probably even different notes to the melody. Bach would be tinkering and improvising to his heart's liking. In fact, he's probably doing exactly just that upstairs as we speak.

Oz, your post is a breath of fresh air. But it might be wasted on classical purists here. 2hearts
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

Top
#1350807 - 01/15/10 10:26 PM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: eweiss]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
And, Billy Joel is a Julliard graduate, isn't he? Oh.

You are being facetious, yes?
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


Top
#1350810 - 01/15/10 10:38 PM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: Betty Patnude]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: Betty Patnude
When you are a child you speak and think as a child thinks...that's a child's reality. With education and life's experience your inner world and outer world bloom to be so much more. We participate in both worlds. One is public and one is private.

Nice quote. Here's something more relevant. What does a child do first? Speak his/her native language or pick up a pencil and start writing the alphabet? As in language, so in music. 2hearts
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

Top
#1350871 - 01/16/10 01:53 AM Re: Dad has some questions / needs advice [Re: eweiss]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Exactly. Don't show them anything...just let them figure it out on their own. They'll turn into a much greater musician that way.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >

Moderator:  Ken Knapp 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
147 registered (ajames, accordeur, *windowlicker*, anamnesis, 44 invisible), 1426 Guests and 9 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75963 Members
42 Forums
157092 Topics
2307020 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Chopin's Technician
by laguna_greg
08/27/14 02:03 PM
Could you please help my son choose a composition?
by christineka
08/27/14 12:47 PM
New old Vose and Sons Upright Piano
by RT White
08/27/14 11:01 AM
Kawai ES100 vs Kawai MP7
by gbitw
08/27/14 08:28 AM
Better Practice, Hands Together or Separate etc.
by Sionos
08/27/14 08:04 AM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission