Both Roland and Yamaha have announced new products at NAMM 2010. No sign of Kawai though so far ...

I went to Japan and tried out the CA93 and 63.

The sound has really improved from CA91/51. It is more like CA18’s but somehow milder. I found it a bit unrealistic to have this concert grand like loooong and rich resonance coming out from that little body, though. I personally wish they would start sampling from a good quality upright piano rather than a full concert grand.

The touch was really heavy. The shop assistant started talking about how easy it has become to play the black keys because of the hinder pivot point. I then played the black-key-etude and, wow, forget it! I got used to it quickly, though. It reminded me a good old Kawai upright piano which I played as a kid. However, if you have only played the lighter western-grand-type pianos, I’m sure it would take a while before your finger muscle gets used to it. The key strokes were firmer comparing to the old CA series. It was more reliable but I find the old AWA grand pro II’s wobbly stroke very realistic, though.

The ‘let off feel’ of CA93 was really major. I thought it rather hindered me from playing the piece properly but it was probably because I am more used to the upright pianos. (I still believe Kawai has over done this feature, though.)

I haven’t changed my mind to wait for the CA63’s release here although I need a new DP quickly. The touch is by far the best FOR ME. In short, it is a VERY JAPANESE piano, I thought.
By the way, DPs seem to be very popular products in Japan. Every major electrical shops (!) seem to sell them and even the fanciest modes are so CHEAP there!!

Hello Gunter,

Thank you for posting your comments about the CA93/CA63. I'm really looking forward to hearing the opinions of other PianoWorld members as these new instruments and materials start to arrive at dealer's stores.

Ah, I hope you had a lovely time in Japan too!

Cheers,
James
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James, can you please explain the content of the software update in the CA63, I have namely understand that Kawai has released an update.

IF they arrive in our stores....

I enquired with the owner at our only Kawai dealer for all of Amsterdam and she said:

"Oh, sir, never heard of them. I am so sick and tired of digital pianos and Kawai's constant new models. I may or may not get it, but really they are all the same anyway, there is no need to buy a new one if you already have one at home. Now, if you will excuse me, I need to talk to these other people in the store who don't already have a piano at home. They might buy one our Perzinas. Goodbye."

With horrible retail outlets and lousy distribution like that, Kawai will have to pull off a real miracle to sell any.

I also have tried CA93 several times in some stores.

Touch)
Very good. I agree with Gunter's review.

Sound)
Good but still I had some complaints. Especially, I minded the quality of the attack of sound.
In acoustic pianos, non-linear and transient phenomena happen when a hummer strikes strings. These non-linear transient attacks make piano sound more realistic. However I felt CA93's attack was too smooth. In other words, I felt something like listening to someone who didn't pronounce consonants clearly. This weak point was not improved by tweaking the parameter of hummer hardness.
In the store, I also tried Roland HP307 and Yamaha CLP-380, and I felt these two had more realistic attacks than CA93.

# But this weak point is not always bad. For example, in cases of accompaniments, these smooth attacks don't disturb other instrument's sound.

What I wrote is just what I felt. I'm looking forward to other one's review.

mezzo-poor, thanks for your review. It would be interesting to hear your overall feedback of the CA93, quality, realism etc. compared to the other two pianos you tried as well, Roland HP307 and Yamaha CLP380

Let me correct typos.

hummer -> hammer

Hummer must be a hard vehicle.

Hi, could you explain me these two points ? What was the issue with the new black key touch ? Don't the white keys feel less progressive now in comparison of the black ones ?

And about the key stroke, does it mean that the top of the key is harder(what is called first load and which is rather light on an acoustic piano), and not only the whole depressing ?

Hi Gunter and mezzo-poor,

Since you both have tried the new CA93 it would be very interesting to hear some comments about the (improved) sound. What can you say about the dynamic range, did you feel that you had control over the piano and that you could raise the velocity in an authentic way? When I listen to the samples available on the Internet it seems that the sound generator plays with high velocity relatively easy. It is very difficult to hear the midrange of this piano. What do you have to say about this, does the piano have good dynamics?

Comments would be appreciated

/Andrée

Hi guys...

Check these links out, just went up a few hours ago...nice sound in stereo direct from the line outs...

http://www.youtube.com/user/MusikSchmidt#p/u/3/GVkTwquSAFo

http://www.youtube.com/user/MusikSchmidt#p/u/2/di2bTB7sny4

Top one is the 63, bottom one is the 93.

Cheers,

Steve

Hi Andree,

I think there are two issues about "Dynamic range of a piano". One is velocity vs. loudness, and another is velocity vs. tones.

For velocity vs. loudness, I felt CA93 had natural and controllable characteristics.

For velocity vs. tones, let me compare CA93, HP307 and CLP380. I felt CA93 was the mildest and mellowest piano among three. Generally, mellow pianos have moderate change of tones along velocity. So the change of tones along velocity from ppp to fff in CA93 was most moderate among three. I wanted more change of tones for CA93 (It might comes from my preference. I like bright pianos.). You can choose voicing from mellower, mellow, normal, bright, brighter and dynamic in CA93. If you choose "dynamic", the change of tones become wider. But still I felt that CA93 was the most moderate.

Just some impressions from my recent experience with CA-63:

I'm from Munich and was looking for a digital piano since some months, I am used to play on a real piano, but at home I only have a weighted master keyboard using a quality sampled piano on my notebook. But now I wanted a home piano, also for my daughter who is a beginner (started learning piano 6 months ago).

I was always thinking of getting a Yamaha CLP since almost everyone was recommending it. Lately I played several CLPs at the local dealer, and I was pretty sure to get the CLP-340.

Before buying it I decided to try also the other top brands (Roland, KAWAI, Casio, Korg). I tried the CA-51, and guess what, I was just amazed by the sound and impressed by the feel of the keys. It really was something very similar of what I was used to playing a real piano.

Then I checked the internet and got some information about a new CA-63 which will be released soon (also read this thread!). My local dealer told me that it's just 2 weeks until they get a demo model. Yesterday was the day:

I went to the dealer and played CA-63 for as long as 2 hours. Result: Absolutely amazing! Significantly better than the CA-51/CA-71: The keyboard feels a little bit stronger (which is better in my taste since I also like the strong keyboard of the CLPs). The keyboard also has the new Ivory-feel which is also a big improvement in my opinion. The touch is really great, it's faster than the touch of teh CA-51 (which was also good, but a little wobbly), repetition is easier. In general a significant improvement.

But then the sound: This was really a surprise to me since I didn't expect any big change, but man was I wrong. I especially like the sound of the Concert Grand 1 and of the Studio Grand 1 und 2, but also the other sounds are really more than decent, E-Pianos and Strings for example. Sustain- and String-Resonance help to get a rich sound experience, but I think these are pretty much the same as in CA-51. The overall sound of the pianos in my ears are more authentic than the general Yamaha sound, not that spectacular/bright, but definitely much more realistic. Maybe Yamaha sound is preferable for Pop/Rock production, but I'm only playing solo!

Recording to a USB-Stick is really easy, I recorded all my testing since I had a USB-Stick with me, the recording just sounds amazing.

On the downside: There were some limitations with the resonance effects with the former CA-Series, these are still not solved:

1) Press a key very loudly with sustain-pedal down, then press the same key very soft and then release the sustain pedal --> Only the second, very quiet sound will be played! That's definitely not the behavior of a real piano.

2) Also the String-resonance is not absolutely perfect: It only works if you don't press the sustain pedal. So after playing notes holding down the sustain pedal, and then releasing the sustain pedal with holding down a key that was not actively played but should have some string resonance, there is no string resonance.

That's a pity: What's so difficult to solve these limitations / defects? But I think these are only very subtle effects which are not really noticeable during "normal" play, so for me it's a minor issue.

But to come to an end: I didn'T hesitate and immediately ordered one CA-63! Next week it will be delivered! I'm desperately looking forward having it at home!

Steve,

Thanks a lot for these videos, they were absolutely fantastic. I have to say that I'm very impressed of the sound that Kawai has created for these pianos, well done.

/Andrée

mezzo-poor and Kawaian, thanks for your input

/Andrée

Steve, thank you for posting these videos.

I wonder why the reviewer didn't mention the new USB Audio playback/record function of the CA93/CA63? This is a very useful feature in my opinion.

kawaian, thank you posting your experience with the new CA models. Regarding the resonance functionality, the CA93/CA63 offer both string and damper resonance features, with the amount of each kind of resonance adjustable through the Virtual Technician menu.

Kind regards,
James
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Hi Andree,

Did you see
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zskTjviRY3s&feature=related

It is difficult to make comparison of pianos in different advertisements or demos but this might be helpful for you.

mezzo-poor, yes I have seen it but I think it's quite silly that they don't show more about the piano sound, it's actually the most interesting feature in this model. However I have to say that I'm not impressed of what I have heard, in my opinion Kawai has a lot more personality in their sound than Roland has. Still, I'm uncertain about the dynamics in the new Kawai models, in my opinion it seems to be too easy to create ff and fff when playing, I wonder where the midrange disappeard

@Andree, that's all a matter of what "touch" you select. There's normal, light, light+, hard, hard+, and also custom. I also prefer hard, so that you need more pressure to reach ff and fff...

Hi mezzo-poor and kawaian,

When you auditioned the CA93 or CA63, were you hearing them with headphones or the on-board loudspeakers and are you satisfied with their piano sound?

I currently play on a Casio CDP100 which at first sounded quite realistic to my untrained ears but since I started using a pair of good quality headphones I cannot stand the on-board loudspeakers anymore

Thanks,
Tony

@Tony Lau, I heard them with a good pair of Beyerdynamic DT-770 headphones (which I usually use at home). I also tried the build-in loudspeakers, and they were "good enough" for my ears, nothing to rave about, but quite realistic (it was in a quite noisy shop area, so I cannot really tell how it will sound at home). What is good about the loudspeakers (I tried CA-63) that the keys are vibrating when using them with appropriate volume.

Yes I know, and both effects sound really convincing, but still there are the limitations as I mentioned in my first posting, and I'm wondering why manufacturers still are not able to overcome these limitations. They can easily be checked and identified, and one would at least think that they are not too complicated to solve...

Hi Tony Lau,

I used my noise-canceling headphones. I couldn't evaluate the sound in the range ppp-mp from loudspeakers due to noisy environment.

I had the chance to play a CA63, CA93 and CA18 in Sheargolds in Maidenhead at the weekend.

For the music I was playing (at relatively low volume), I couldn't tell the difference between the CA63/93/18. The 63 and 93 are a lot heavier though, to the extent that I could feel that I had had a bit of a work out on the 63 and 93. I was worried that because the 63 and 93 had heavier actions they would exhibit thumping noises (as you get on clavinovas, and Roland hp series), but I am happy to report that there was none of that - perhaps there was even less thumping than the CA18...

I played a CA111 some time ago, and was a bit let down by the directionality of the sound. It may have been that it wasn't set up correctly, but the sound sounded like it was coming from the back of the piano, rather than being directed towards the player. I found that the CA93 did not experience this issue.

I spoke a little to the dealer and he said that in the UK, the CA63 is available in all the same colours as the CA18, with the satin black and chrome finish particularly nice (but I didn't see that, and I like Rosewood myself). The CA93 isn't available in cherry at the moment.

This was only my first viewing. I spent about an hour, but I didn't notice the escapement feel of the CA93, or try much music at the very high or low ends.

AndyT, may I ask which shop you went to play the new models?

Cheers,
James
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I've edited my post above.
Andy T

Thank you Andy, and for your interesting comments.

Regarding the availability of finishes, I can tell you that - in Europe at least - the CA63 will be available in all four standard finishes, while the CA93 will be available in Premium Rosewood and Premium Black Satin.

For me, the CA93's let-off/escapement is very subtle. I only notice it when playing individual notes softly. However the professional musicians that assisted with the development of the new RM3 Grand action, all believed that it improved the realism of the keyboard feel.

Cheers,
James
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Are there other important differences in the new keyboard and the last one?

theJourney, there are three major improvements to the 'RM3 Grand' action over 'AWA Grand Pro II':

- Ivory Touch key surfaces (textured, moisture absorbent)
- Separate balance pin positions for black/white keys (more like an acoustic)
- Let-off mechanism, aka 'escapement' (currently CA93, CP209/CP179 only)

These improvements are highlighted in a new 'RM3 Grand' PoP display produced for KAWAI dealers - a digital version of which can be found on the KAWAI Europe website:

http://kawai.de/grafik/rm3grandpop_big.jpg

There are also changes to the shape of the hammers, as well as adjustments to the static/dynamic key weight.

I hope this answers your question.

Cheers,
James
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Thanks for that!