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Billy Joel's MOTHER was teaching in Juliard (according to wikipedia anyways and I think I've read it elsewhere).

But Billy can read music.

Originally Posted by eweiss
Originally Posted by Betty Patnude
When you are a child you speak and think as a child thinks...that's a child's reality. With education and life's experience your inner world and outer world bloom to be so much more. We participate in both worlds. One is public and one is private.

Nice quote. Here's something more relevant. What does a child do first? Speak his/her native language or pick up a pencil and start writing the alphabet? As in language, so in music. 2hearts

Same thing with any kid. They will whistle, hum, dance, whatever a tune. Then they may find their way on a piano, where they might pick up a tune they love. And then, exactly like in any language, if they start lessons they'll start reading and writting.

Is there really any point in your question?

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Re Wizard of Oz:

Hats back on, gentlemen!

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I don't think these things are mutually exclusive. I am a classical teacher, but I include ear training, improvisation and composition in each lesson (not all three at the same lesson, though!). A good classical pianist needs those skills to be able to interpret the works of the masters and to help develop the next generation of them!

I start these things at the very first lesson. Students must learn to read, but they must also learn to listen and create.


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Originally Posted by Wizard of Oz
.............currawong, you aren't talking about BJones are you? Man that cat was funny, too bad he's gone now.................


I'm sorry to drag this dull debate on and draw further atterntion to the W***** of Oz, and his irksome attention seeking, but Wombat Poirot has had a few idle moments on his hands and would like to question how our irritating little troll is so familiar with the life and times of BJones?
Our former friend BJ last posted on 19 May, 2009 01:58 AM in a thread "What do you think the greats would do...". Like many of the threads "that funny old cat" BJ was involved in, the Moderators didn't find his posts quite as hilarious as our little Okker Wizard does and it got locked. Poor old BJ was never seen again (I wonder if he suffered the same fate as the recently much lamented SV, because old Jonsie boy's name no longer appears in the user list).
The old sage of Cornwall has smelt a hint something brown and furry in that the W****r of Oz is so familiar with our much missed Mr Jones when the former first registered on 13 August, 2009 and yet the latter last posted on 19 May, 2009. I think that the board's other great sage from Down Under (step forward please Sir Currawong)has struck bullseye with his hammer and hit the nail on the head when he noticed more than a passing resemblance between the bothersome wizard and his hero.....perhaps little Wizard you'd care to join your alter ego and disappear back into the cyberspace from whence you came?



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Originally Posted by Wombat66
The old sage of Cornwall has smelt a hint something brown and furry in that the W****r of Oz is so familiar with our much missed Mr Jones when the former first registered on 13 August, 2009 and yet the latter last posted on 19 May, 2009.


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Originally Posted by stores
Exactly. Don't show them anything...just let them figure it out on their own. They'll turn into a much greater musician that way.

You're probably right.

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I just love the comments:

1) "Don't show them anything....justlet them figure it out on their own. They'll turn into a much greater musician that way."

2) You're probably right.

If you don't instruct how is it that you say you "teach"?

I think piano teachers need to "teach" actively.

Do we just sit there and take their money for being in our presence for 30 minutes without contributing a thing?

Music reading and mastering the piano is not something you figure out on your own you make so much more progress with the guidance of a mentor.

Maybe it is that some piano teachers have little or nothing to teach.

I don't get this "philosophy" at all.

And, "they'll turn into a much greater musician that way"?

By drinking the water?

Nice work if you can get it guys!

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Gentlemen, once you've replaced your hats, you may want to keep them on with both hands. There's a lot of hot air blowing around here today.

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B.P. - I was kidding. And 'Stores' was being facetious I think.

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Yes, I was being facetious.
In regard to someone above stating that Billy Joel's mother taught at Juilliard...I'm not sure where that comes from, because it's simply not true.



"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

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Originally Posted by stores
In regard to someone above stating that Billy Joel's mother taught at Juilliard...I'm not sure where that comes from, because it's simply not true.
That was totally my fault, misreading something... My fault, sorry... (too tired I guess)

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I, thought Billy Joel was a graduate of Julliard but it is that he:

1) Studied in the neighborhood with a teacher educated at Julliard, and

2) He has endowed Julliard with very large donations.

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Wow, this discussion has been massive - I've only just stumbled across the conversation....

To the original question of how you can create the conditions under which your daughter develops excellent sight reading skills (to match her impressive rote learning skills) I would say two things:

1. Have her learn one new piece at her performing level every single week. Maybe two. Or three. The more music she learns the less efficient it is for her to rely on rote learning. Practicing sight reading at this stage of her learning is boring, and boring does not equal engagement with the learning activity.....

2. Chill out about her sight reading skills for now. Maybe she is so fascinated by the sound of a piece, and by the techniques needed to execute a performance of a piece that her brain simply has no interest in the reading side of things. If she learns a new piece [at her performance level] every week she will certainly become a great sight reader ultimately.


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Originally Posted by Elissa Milne
Wow, this discussion has been massive - I've only just stumbled across the conversation....

To the original question of how you can create the conditions under which your daughter develops excellent sight reading skills (to match her impressive rote learning skills) I would say two things:

1. Have her learn one new piece at her performing level every single week. Maybe two. Or three. The more music she learns the less efficient it is for her to rely on rote learning. Practicing sight reading at this stage of her learning is boring, and boring does not equal engagement with the learning activity.....

2. Chill out about her sight reading skills for now. Maybe she is so fascinated by the sound of a piece, and by the techniques needed to execute a performance of a piece that her brain simply has no interest in the reading side of things. If she learns a new piece [at her performance level] every week she will certainly become a great sight reader ultimately.


Hi Elissa,

That is great advice. I was a little worried at first because I had "assumed" that all students should be sight-reading at their playing level.



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Originally Posted by Wombat66
Originally Posted by Wizard of Oz
.............currawong, you aren't talking about BJones are you? Man that cat was funny, too bad he's gone now.................




our much missed Mr Jones when the former first registered on 13 August, 2009 and yet the latter last posted on 19 May, 2009. I think that the board's other great sage from Down Under (step forward please Sir Currawong)has struck bullseye with his hammer and hit the nail on the head when he noticed more than a passing resemblance between the bothersome wizard and his hero.....perhaps little Wizard you'd care to join your alter ego and disappear back into the cyberspace from whence you came?




hey Wombat you think I'm BJones? And you actually did the research? Man I must be really getting on your nerves.
Perhaps you'd like to dance Marquis of Queensbury style at Piccadilly Circus. Or can you not afford to take the train there?

For the record, I am NOT BJones, I don't even live in the same country as he does. But we can dance all night long bro.

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Originally Posted by michiganteacher
A couple things to think about:

1. I agree with Morodiene that reading intervals is very important! Your daughter should first learn to recognize steps (is it going up or down?), and then skips of a 3rd, and then larger skips. She should learn to recognize immediately how each interval looks.

2. Sometimes I like to use note-reading flashcards with my students. There are some with one note on each, and some with intervals. I think both are useful for some students. Definitely doesn't hurt!

3. Practicing sight-reading is also a good thing. I have a few of my students practicing reading simple, brand new pieces each day. I just give them books to borrow (it is important that these pieces are at a lower level then what the student might normally play!) The idea here is not to work on perfecting the piece, but to play it through, and then let it go. There are good habits to strive for also - such as scanning through the music before starting, and going slowly.

4. As your daughter continues lessons and grows older, it would be good for her to learn some music theory, too. When I sight read music, I am not reading individual notes at a rapid speed, but rather am recognizing intervals, chords, scales, and cadences on a broader level. So much of this is due to my knowledge of music theory. I have currently been using the Keith Snell theory books with my students.

Good luck! It sounds like your daughter has some talent. smile


Thank you for the great advice. She is turning 7 in March which is why I'm raising the bar for her a little bit. I think she has a solid head start compared to some kids (I didn't play until age 9!), so I think 7 is a great age to be on a regular routine of playing and practicing (which includes scales, drills, and sight reading practice.)


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Originally Posted by Wombat66
...our little Okker Wizard ...from Down Under...
sings: Is he an Aussie, Lizzie, is he, is he an Aussie, Lizzie, ay? etc

Wombat, I don't think Wiz is.


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I am a dad helping my three children with piano playing, and found that Piano Adventures by Faber and Faber are great for sight reading, among many things. Start with the primer level and have her proceed through the levels, even if the material seems too easy for her. It is the gradual mastering of easy tasks that will make things such that sight reading effortless.

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Originally Posted by Wizard of Oz
I bet if Rach or Mozart or Beethoven were alive today and played some of their works, it would sound somewhat different each time. They would be altering and changing the dynamics depending on their mood. Musicians do this all the time.


I doubt that. The composers have gone out of their way to make specific sheet music indications despite that they're things they would change all the time? Why would they do that?

And so, musicians do it all the time? Unless these musicians were one of those you listed, or near to their musicianship, I fail to see how that is relevant. Maybe they do such things because their musicianship is actually lower than any of those who you listed...?

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