Hi All,

I'm surprised that this is the first time this issue has come up with my students--more than one, all of a sudden! Several students just mentioned that they spend half of the week with one parent, and half with the other, and that one has a piano, and the other doesn't, or has only a small keyboard (toy). I think students have been reticent to volunteer the information because they don't feel comfortable talking about their home life so much, unless it has to do with their pets or toys...

Is it unreasonable to expect both parents to have a real piano? I don't want to make going back and forth between homes even more stressful for the students, but some of them are getting really frustrated because they aren't making progress. They think it's something wrong with THEM when they can't learn their new pieces or techniques, and so they just automatically assume they are "bad at this."

Should I insist that each house has either a real piano or a good digital? How have you dealt with this?

Thanks in advance,

N

I've had this pop up several times this past decade, and it seems never to work out very well. The parents frequently are in a power contest and the kids are often the victims. One parent supports music lessons, the other supports a competing activity.

If the 2nd parent invests in a high end keyboard, not necessarily with bells and whistles, but one that emulates the piano as best as is possible these days, the student will probably survive.

However, I found that they actually needed two sets of music as well; but the set that came to lessons got marked up, the other set didn't. Sometimes sets would get mixed, and that was a problem in and of itself.

The best I can offer you is my best wishes, and for your student as well.

John

Athough my experience is not exactly what you are describing, I can comment on using both an acoustic piano and a much more inexpensive keyboard. I happen to have triplets who all started piano rather young. Our problem was a bottleneck at the starter acoustic piano. We didn't have the money of the space for another mammoth piano, so we opted to get a somewhat inexpensive keyboard (it was only 76 keys, not the full 88 keys). The boys quickly learned to alternate between the real piano and the keyboard. It wasn't a perfect solution but they boys managed to progress just fine. So, I can attest that kids can be adaptable to routine switching between a keyboard and piano without much difficulty.

In hindsight, we perhaps could have looked around much longer on Craigslist for a better, used keyboard (you know, full 88 keys, better weighted action) before just buying the current keyboard new. However, the one that we got worked out fine for us even now after 6 years of lessons. I would try to get as close to 88 keys as possible (alot of the really cheap ones are only 61 keys).

One interesting benefit of the keyboard, however, is that it really helped one of my sons in positioning of his hands when playing. He tended to really drop his hands while playing and constant reminders just never stuck with him. So, we put placed a cardboard tube that straddled across the keyboard just in front of the keys. This worked because of the way the keyboard stand is configured, it provided supports on either side of the keyboard that we can rest the tube. I adjusted the height of the tubes with wooden spacers. He had to elevate his hands over the tube to play the keyboard. We put a rough texture on the top of the tube (the rough side of a velcro strip that had an adhesive backing) so he couldn't just rest his hands on the tube (at the very least it provided some tactile feedback to "please raise your hands"). Well, after about 6 months (and he would alternate between the keyboard and piano), he began to more naturally keep his hands higher when playing on the acoustic piano (it's not perfect but certainly better).

So, I just wanted to chime in that if you had to go with an inexpensive keyboard, while not perfect, as John mentioned above, it isn't the end of the world and the kids can probably make it work.

Mr. Peabody

P.S. Just a couple more useful points about keyboards. They usually allow for easy recordings of the playing, which can be useful in providing feedback. And headphones are good for late night.

Good question, but IMO whatever is going on in the family and for each parent easily takes precedence over this. Leave it totally up to the student to make an issue of it or not, on his/her own initiative. I say assume the piano situation to be just part of the lay of the land; don't take it on yourself to make an issue of it, and try to avoid expressing much frustration about it yourself, because if you do, whether you intend it or not, in a small way you'll be siding against one of the parents.

I feel terrible for kids like this. My niece was one of them, and she never stayed with any instrument because the parents would never get on the same page about practicing and having an instrument.

I have twice interviewed a student in this situation, and in both cases it never got past the interview stage. I think that's because I wanted to meet both parents. I told the parent who brought the child that if he/she was spending half the week with the other parent, I would want to talk with that parent as well so to please give them my info to schedule a meeting. Both times I never heard back.

I just wouldn't take a student on unless the parent/guardian in each home was equally committed to helping the student make progress, and yes, that means having at least something like a Yamaha P-85.

I've had the issue come up once, between mom and grandmom, where child spent much of her time. I begged them to get a keyboard, and there were many promises, but they never followed through. I think they liked having the excuse not to practice! The child did eventually quit - after 2 years and little progress.

I have an unused keyboard upstairs (it's my son's, and he doesn't have room for it right now.) I'm seriously thinking of renting it out - kind of a force-rental - until student's parents get their act together.

That sounds awfully limiting for the poor kids who don't get lessons because of this, and I feel bad for them. But it's understandable if you don't want to get mixed up in something like that.

In my work (psychiatry), the situation very often is limited by such "lays of the land." I feel we should help the people however we can, in the context of their situation, unless the context is such that it prevents any good work. If we don't want to, we don't have to -- but then we're denying help to people who are looking for it.

Yes Mark, as I wrote it I realized it sounded kind of harsh! I never really thought about it as a firm policy before. But the more I think about it... I just think that at least having the opportunity to speak to both parents in this situation is necessary before taking on the student. If they are not both on board, then learning the piano is just not going to work in my opinion whether I give lessons or not. As the original poster described, the kid will wind up frustrated at his/her lack of progress. The lessons are likely to be a negative experience if the proper support at home isn't given. If it really is a 50/50 thing, then not having that support 50% of the time is what's going to limit the kids, not the fact that I won't teach them.

(At least that what I tell myself to feel better about it!)

Just my two cents but I think that Rachel is on to something here that is separate from the purely economic issue of having an instrument in two different locations. From my observations of friends/colleagues who have kids and are divorced, there is sometimes a dynamic of one location/parent being viewed as more "disciplinarian"/strict than the other location/parent. Rachel is probably correct that learning piano is hard enough for kids that if they are not getting consistent encouragement/guidance from both parents/locations, they can falter. Her insistence on meeting both sides makes sense to me (I think it would require a very dedicated, mature-beyond-their-years child to excel without support from both parents).

Certainly, I do know that the kids of divorced parents sometimes will also play one side against the other for all sorts of things. So, if there was any doubts/wavering in the child learning piano, this situation is a convenient out. And there is a competition of sorts that can happen between the parents for the affections of the child. It really requires an amicable and coordinated effort of both divorced parents to make these things work (which sadly among my observations do not seem to happen often enough).

On the economics of it all, I realize the piano lessons, the instrument, tunings, etc. can really add up in costs and are therefore very difficult for those with very tight budgets (this is largely why my wife was unable to take piano lessons as a child despite a desire to learn. Do you think we are overcompensating with our boys? At least, they have the opportunity...you can lead a horse to water...). In a piano forum, sometimes I think we need to remind ourselves that those who have the opportunity to take lessons are already very fortunate.

Mr. Peabody

Thanks Mr. Peabody for your thoughtful post! You put the situation much more eloquently than I was able to. I was not even thinking about the economics. In the two cases I was presented with, the economics did not seem to be an issue, but the interest on the part of the other parent was a barrier.

I find these situations of joint custody quite sad. I think that in the majority of cases (though I don't want to generalize) the child does suffer from the lack of consistency in their lives. I know that was true for my niece.

....and after my post, I thought maybe I'd been too harsh to you.

I can easily see it both ways, but to the extent possible I try hard to give help even when the circumstances are limiting. And I'm sure you do too.

As an adult student, I am in a similar situation of being in two locations (although not by fractions of a week). I have a six foot grand piano in my primary location, and a fairly good 88 key, graded hammer digital in my second location. I find that the digital is adequate, although not desirable. It certainly helps me appreciate the grand piano when I return! Digital pianos of this quality can be had for under $1000 new, and for most people contemplating lessons, should not be a huge barrier (since the lessons themselves will likely equal or exceed that amount annually).

Rachel,

I went to your website. I was very impressed.

Hop

Thanks Mark and Hop.

I think you are right but rather then sending them away. Find a guitar teacher you can recommend and explain that pianos are not well suited to a transient lifestyle but that even a small child can carry a 3/4 scale guitar with her.

So after you've made the assessment that the child will not be able to learn piano it might be good then to suggest an alternative instrument that can be hand carried.

Excellent point, Chris, and one I hadn't considered.

Again, the two times I was presented with this situation, I had simply asked to speak to the other parent, and I never heard from them again. If they had continued the communication with me, we might have worked something out!

This thread gives me lots of ideas for how to handle the situation in the future.

Since most students don't practice on their piano all week long, I'm not sure I understand why there's an issue if a student spends half a week with one parent and half with the other. So spend your time practicing while you're with the parent who has the piano and take a break while you're with the other parent. Am I missing something?

I understand that it's nice to have both parents being supportive of the student's musical education. But even if one parent is not, isn't it still better to have the lessons than no lesson at all, even if the progress may be slower? I'm not sure why the teacher should require the cooperation of both parents. I know it'd be nice, but why is it a MUST? As long as expectation is set with the one supportive parent that progress will be twice as slow as normal and that parent agrees, what's the harm? It's not the student's fault that his/her parents are divorced and now you'd be making him/her feel worse because he/she gets rejected because he/she is a divorced kid.

My daughter has a student who can only take lesson every other week on the weekend that she's with her dad. But as long as the student wants to continue to take lessons and is not frustrated with the slower progress, and neither is her dad, my daughter is OK with keeping her, even at the expense of not being booked for that time slot every other week.