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If you are not going to be able to find a fixed time for a lesson, you are probably not going to be able to find time for daily practice.

I think you should show yourself the discipline of trying to find and keep a fixed time for the lesson just by putting any date and time into your calendar now and seeing how many obstacles come up in your life in the next 60 days that will cause a conflict. You have to try to keep the time a priority and reschedule the other competing event.

Also, you have to find time in your schedule when you would be practicing at your piano. If you can't schedule a half hour to an hour for practice daily, then you are not going to be making progress to your advantage, you're going to be making excuses to your teacher and yourself.

So set it up as though you are the student entered in the program and see exactly what kind of a problem you are.

Then reverse this idea (an exercise not a real thing) and have someone schedule an appointment with you at a different time then your lesson would be scheduled for any purpose you want to conceive and see how often you are able to meet with this person who wants to see you. Are you letting him down over and over by not being there? You choose the location and they meet you and that puts you in the place of the teacher waiting for his/her student to arrive. Did your student remember to call you and tell you he wasn't coming today?

This is now 2 appointments per week you are trying to make.

Is it as hopeless as you think? Or, is it doable?

Betty

Betty, thanks for your inputs. I was just wondering if there’s such thing as a flex schedule for adult students and is it ok bi-weekly. Anyway, to answer your questions, here’s what my week is like right now.

Monday – Friday: Get out of work between 5/6. Pick up Son. Wife gets home a bit later so can’t fit lessons in during weekday. (Babysitter doesn’t sit much later than 6 or 6:30)

Saturday: Cleaning, mopping, laundry, babysit etc… Wife works everyday so I’m pretty much stuck with all the household chores and the kid all weekend. Of course I can fit in a lesson early but I’d have to bring son along or find a 2-hour-baby sitter + budget for sitting expenses.

Sunday: After Church, I can definitely drop him off at his Grandmas, but this isn’t always fixed. (Some Sundays they aren’t available, others, they may be out grocery shopping and whatnot).

Regarding practice, yes, I’m very discipline with my daily practice. Everynight when wife and son are asleep, no matter how late or tired, I always put in at least 1 hour before I go to bed.

And yes, I definitely think it’s doable. I was hoping for teacher's opinion about a flex schedule. And what you think of bi-weekly? In order for me to stay fix, I’ll definitely need a babysitter for an hour or 2 plus sitting costs.

Sunday is my best option. I just can’t ask mom or mom-in-law for a fixed time slot.

Like I said, I don’t think it’s fair to ask you this question. But before I decide to either do it or not, it’s helpful to hear your advices.

If you really think it's not fair to ask for a flex schedule and bi-weekly lesson, then I'll either have to work on asking both moms for a fix sunday time slot, look for a part-time babysitter, or quit the idea altogether and just keep on doing my nightly one-hour self-learning.

Nguyen, I think it depends on the teacher. One who has a full studio of (mainly) children, and a tight schedule probably wouldn't be able to accommodate you, unless you could come in the daytime when (typically) the children can't come. Someone like me possibly could - I have a fairly small number of students, and mostly adults. I need them to be flexible too because I do a lot of accompanying work and we work out lesson times between us at busy times of the year. Teachers who have a full studio of children, for example, simply can't do this. All you can do is talk to the teacher and see what they say. They may be able to refer you to someone else who does more flexible scheduling.

Everyone has things they have to manage into their time. I had 5 children at home when I started teaching in 1971 they were between the ages of 2 and 9 years old. During those years I had between 10 and 40 students so being there at the piano took up a lot of my "extra" time. I was also much of the time paying someone to come in and be availabe during the time I was teaching to be there and do things with the kids for a few hours an afternoon. The older kids helped the younger kids. In a few years it wasn't necessary to have someone there for them. Seldom was I interupted and if so, then it was for an important reason.

If I could find time to teach with a busy household such as I had, and I know a lot of other women who have done the same by combining piano teaching, family, and home management, then I think any one can find time to have a one hour lesson per week and find time to practice daily. I feel the same about women in college courses with families, home and maybe a job to manage. "Where there is a will there is a way."

If you don't have the passion to commit to lessons and to the teacher then you won't find the passion to find the babysitter or ask the wife or the grandparent for her support in finding time for your piano activities.

We all have the same 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year with which to fill however we want to with activity.

I'm not sure that you actually now do a one hour nightly self teaching sesson, but if you do, then I commend you for that. But, I think you have more options then you might be seeing.

The more room we have to make excuses about why we haven't started or can' start our piano lessons, then the longer the decision is going to drag on. For many busy people, there is no optimum time, but they plunge in, get committed, follow through, and make progress.

We all have to work out how we will spend our time for ourselves.

I don't think a part time schedule is helpful to a piano student of any age or level.

Betty

My daughter who's a piano teacher had a pay-as-you-go policy when she started out teaching, but that very quickly fell apart because she had to deal with excessive last minute cancellations and no-shows with no notice. People who are no-shows think they shouldn't pay you because they didn't receive that service, but they don't realize that the time you set aside for that lesson for them is lost at your expense because you could have planned it for something else.

The only way pay-as-you-go will work fairly is if payment for that planned lesson is made in advance with no refund. But even then, it's not fair when you must turn away other teaching opportunities for that weekly time slot, and you're still at the student's whim whether they want to do a lesson that week or not. Not to mention the hassle of requiring payment for every single lesson up-front.

So very quickly afterward, she instituted a new policy that requires students to commit to book and pre-pay for a set of 4 lessons at a time. I explained that policy in detail in the other thread on this forum about "Excessive Absences". It's since worked out wonderfully well for her.

Last year I had a busy teen student whose parents asked me for an hour lesson every other week instead of 30 mintues per week. At first glance, this seems okay. But there were pitfalls, and I wouldn't do it again.

First, this tied up two 30 minute weekly time slots. The only way I could break even would be to find another student who was willing to take the hour on the in-between weeks. You know that's not going to happen.

Second, it very quickly became "We can't come this week, so we'll come next week instead." In other words, they expected me to have that hour available for them every week, even though they were only coming every other.

Keeping track long term of which weeks the student was supposed to be there was not easy. Some months have 4 weeks, some have five. So it wasn't a matter of just remembering "2nd and 4th Tuesdays" or whatever.

And when the student knew she wasn't going to have a lesson this week, she put off practicing. A student who comes weekly, and "crams" for lessons at the last minute might make some progress. A student who is only cramming every other week will make less.

It wasn't fun for either of us, and I wasn't surprised when she quit.

I have set very clear parameters about the time I am available to teach -- between 3:30 and 7:00 every day. I occassionally have someone - usually an adult - who wants me to make an exception and teach them later in the evening, or on weekends. That's not what I do.

At the moment I have only one adult student. She misses a fair number of lessons - other obligations, sick kids, etc. However, she pays tuition, as do my other students. So I think she just evaluates if she thinks the number of lessons she gets is worth the money she is paying. Apparently she thinks it is. You might consider doing something like that. Find a time you think might work best for you, and do all you can to get there. If you pay, for example, $80/month, and get there for 4 weeks, it's $20 per lesson. If you only make two of those lessons, then it's $40 per lesson. Teacher gets his/her scale, and you get your lessons, albeit at a higher price. Only you can decide if it's worth it to you.

I really admire what you did with 5 children at home, Betty, but I don't quite buy the "if I could ... then anyone can ..." argument. I've probably used that line myself at times but people are not all the same in their coping abilities even with identical situations. We can all say what we think, and I think that none of us can actually tell Nguyen what he is or isn't capable of doing. He really has to work that out for himself. If he finds he can't manage lessons at the moment for family reasons, then I don't want to put the "you could have done it if you'd really wanted to" guilt trip onto him.

I think I've given him something to examine his intentions by, Currawong. I have trouble when people are so clearly stating they want to do something but they can't because. I have heard so many excuses in my life and I don't listen to them anymore. I'd encourage him to make it happen if he wants it. But not to blame anyone else ever for why his dreams aren't happening. Wouldn't it be wonderful if his wife wanted to find time to be at home so that he could move forward. I wonder if she knows his ambitions and would want to work with him to promote it. Has he asked. I often think excuses are in someones head and haven't been verified with the other people in the equation. "Ask and ye shall receive" point of view. Obstacles perceived, or obstacles completely based in reality. Maybe he feels he shouldn't have these dreams for himself. Who knows. But, I'd like to see the effort made without all the criteria he thinks needs to happen first. Confront the issue entirely with the people involved and see what kind of cooperation he can get to pursuit his dream.

I think I'm affected by how many times with my 5 kids and husband I put myself last in the pecking order of things because.....there was always an excuse that explained why I couldn't or shouldn't when I really wanted something. There was always something else competing for priority. Sometimes you just have to stand up and get it for yourself because it doesn't matter much to anyone else but you. He has such a long list of things like mopping, etc. I'm in empathy to his feeling locked in, I think.

Betty

Nguyen
I would be the kind of teacher who could accomodate you, so there must be others out there if you look. I'm not able to teach an absolutely full schedule, I keep the numbers down to 25 or 30 at most if I am doing relief teaching for another teacher, or helping with the exam preparation of other teachers' students. This is paid back to me in the flexibility students give me if I have a large performing or composing project on.

I have 2 students who have flexible "one at a time" lessons, and one child who has bi-weekly lessons with flexibility. I use off-peak time slots for these students, it works well. It would be crazy and impossible if all students fitted this category (unless teaching was something you did only a little of, say as a sideline to a performance career).

One of these students has a serious chronic illness and I have have done my very best to make sure she understands that she can cancel as often as she needs with as little as one hour notice. I admire her commitment and progress against some of her challenges! She pays a higher rate, and regularly passes me wonderful organic home grown food My teaching is valued, and she and her husband make it very clear that my flexibility is appreciated.

And the bi-weekly child changed to weekly after a few years (it was a theory and composition lesson, not his main instrumental lesson). For children in the first few years of piano, probably twice a week would be better for their development, so it's important to explain to parents how much ground they lose if lessons are any less than weekly. So weekly lessons (minimum) are better value for the money spent. Those early years are so valuable as a window to set many skills in place.

Nguyen, as the others have said, it's absolutely fair to look for a teacher who will accommodate a flex schedule or biweekly lessons. For every teacher/student who has told a story on the forum where it doesn't work, I've read stories from others where it has worked out well. The trick is to start asking for referrals to teachers who specialize in or currently have several adult students.

Incidentally, unlike Betty, I believe you completely when you say that you practice an hour every night. Your obvious passion for and commitment to piano shine through in your posts. I am impressed by your motivation to keep playing despite your very busy schedule. The good news is that as your son grows older and is better able to entertain himself, you will have more time for piano.

Nguyen,

I don't fully know your circumstances, or the age of your son, but might it be possible to find a teacher, willing to come to your home at weekends?

I'll do it for $1,000,000! And not a penny less.

eweiss, you know I always like you ideas, but not this one. No, honestly, I always enjoy your sense of humor.

Thank you Betty, Currawong, Volusiano, Lollipop, Canonie, Monica K., and R0B.

Though in disagreement, you all are very encouraging. It opens my eyes hearing both side of the arguments. I sometime post and join in the hilarious comments with others but usually not ask questions. I have thought about this for at least 2 weeks already, and fortunately saw this thread today and decided to ask. It doesn’t hurt right?

Thanks Betty. I understand your point. It makes me quit complaining and just go do it. Regarding my one hour nightly, yes, I do and with a passion too. I started last April and almost done with the Alfred Adult All-in-One Book One. I do, I really do. I can’t tell 10 years from now, but for the time being, I love Piano and practice, honestly.

Volusiano, Lollipop, your ideas and suggestions have never crossed my mind. Thanks.

Currawong, Canonie, Monica K. and Rob, you’re very encouraging. I appreciate the positive enforcements. What do down students like me do without you right? Monica, you have a great point. My son is 18 months, will grow and can probably be good at lessons in 2 years

I will do it. I will call the teacher and schedule a time to talk. I’m going to ask the 2 grandmas, hope they don’t think I’m selfish Asking wife isn’t a good idea. She’s trying to build her business. She’ll kick my you know what if not thinking I’m selfish and insensitive

Based on all your suggestions, I will scratch bi-weekly. I will commit weekly. Hopefully she’s flexible. If not, I’ll just pay for the absences or perhaps see if she knows other teachers familiar with flex schedule.

Don't know what John would say if he sees this. I wonder if he will blast me or encourage I know you're a great teacher Mr. Brook, and always respect your 2 cents.

Thank you,
Nguyen

Nguyen, good luck on finding a great teacher that you can work well with. In fairness to John I have to point out that he did say -

If you respect a teacher's choices to offer flexibility/alternative arrangements, or not, I'm sure you can find someone who suits you. Let us know how the search goes if you like

I'm one of the guilty parties that teaches on a lesson-by-lesson basis. Of course I only have two adult studetns with whom I have a great working relationship. If anyone has to cancel so be it. We're not out to set any goals unless they want to. One of my students is doing very, very well and I am impressed with his diligence at his practicing.

Just prior to the Christmas holiday, he was taking two lessons a week. This worked out for him, and we went about it with the caveat that he may or may not have the time to make the progress he was hoping to make. In the end we ended up stopping the twice a week lessons, and he's back on his regular schedule. This in part was due to my tight schedule with my upcoming audition and exams at the time. If I were to take on any new students, I would allow the flexible schedule they need since I can work out this into my schedule as well.

Given that this time of year is sketchy with the nasty New England weather, I am more than flexible with these people, particularly since I travel to their house and one of them works and travels on occasion.

Granted that this may not always work if there are more than a mere handful of students, but I work with what works for everyone.

John

With some students, I have to be flexible, and it is no problem for me.

For instance, I have a couple of adults, who have 'fly in, fly out' jobs, and can only take lessons in the weeks that they are home.

They fully understand that the situation is not ideal, but are learning purely for pleasure, and I am happy to fit their lessons in, when I can.

These teachers DO exist. I am an adult beginner, and I have one.
He mostly teaches adults, and offers a lot of flexibility because he knows that for many of us piano comes secondary to a paycheck. Some of his students, like me, take weekly lessons, but occasionally need to cancel when we are on travel or have to work long hours. As long as we give him sufficient warning he has no problem with that. But he has other students that come bi-weekly, once/month, or even just call him up when they want to go work through something with him. He only takes payment at each lesson - doesn't want the hassles of bookkeeping that go along with paying in advance.

Like you, many of us can only get our routine practice in during times most teachers aren't teaching (my daily practice is usually at around 5:30am - and then I get in a second practice session in the afternoon, but the time varies widely by day depending on my schedule). I have been able to keep my piano lesson schedule pretty well, but occasionally I've had to switch it to another day of the week. Again, no problem as long as I give advance notice.

I fully understand why most teachers do not want to work like this, and I can definitely understand why teachers might not want to have a mix of pre-paid and pay-as-you-go students. But for teachers who do offer that flexibility, it can work out very well for everyone involved.

It sounds like while different teachers have different levels of tolerance in schedule fluctuation, income predictability, and student commitment, there's an underlying common theme. Teachers want students to respect their time.

The policies all seem to be written to keep students from abusing flexibility. Some teachers demand a certain level of seriousness in piano study, and that's reflected in their policies. Other teachers cater to students who do not have piano as the top priority. But it does sound like just about all teachers have some level of understanding that at times, other things in life do get in the way of piano.

Nguyen, I think I may have missed something here. We were discussing parents who do not bring children to lessons regularly, and how to deal with that particular problem. Irregular lessons are a disaster for children (students) - compared with regular weekly lessons for which the child is well prepared - and teachers need some mechanism to encourage good parental behavior, or at least, constructive parental behavior.

Over the years I've been on this forum, I've discovered that quite a few adult students read our posts, which are primarily referencing how to deal with school-age student problems, and then internalize them as meaning that's how we deal with adults. And then take offense. Of course, none in meant, because we were not thinking about adults in our discourse.

Generally, most piano teachers probably have a child to adult student ratio of something like 10-1, 15-1 or 20-1. The problems we have dealing effectively with a wide range of parents and societal situations makes this a highly useful forum for discussing and solving these problems.

For adults, I charge almost exclusively by the lesson; I strongly encourage weekly lessons for those who are elementary/intermediate students. For students who have reached the advanced level, monthly lessons are fine, if that works in their schedule. Like many have pointed out, and for very obvious reasons, we cannot reserve a time-slot for a once a month student or a twice monthly student - unless you pay for it.

Good luck in your teacher search.