I'm using Behringer Truth B2031's for my DAW and Behringer Truth B2031a's for V-Piano. What is the optimal distance that these (or any) monitors should be located from the wall.

Since the monitors in both configurations are angled towards me (sweet spot), I'm really asking how far should the corner of the monitor that is nearest the wall, be from the wall?

Lawrence

A couple of meters perhaps ....

Seriously? That's 6-1/2 feet (in unit of measurement that I can understand).

It depends on whether the speaker has been designed to remove a common bass response feature or not - the so-called "baffle step compensation", or BSC.

BSC is a step in the frequency response graph - a step in the downward direction with decreasing frequency, in the bass region. It is caused by the woofer radiation going from half space to full space. At higher frequencies the wavelengths are short enough that they can only "see" the face of the speaker baffle they are mounted in, and so are mainly influenced by it. At lower frequencies the wavelengths are long enough to "see" the entire speaker enclosure, including whatever it is sitting on, nearby walls, etc.

Anything that limits full space radiation will reduce the step, which will result in stronger bass response. If your speaker has BSC and is placed near a wall, or worse a corner, the bass will likely be too strong. BSC speakers are usually placed on tall stands away from walls. If your speaker does not have BSC then the bass may seem anemic if not resting on a table, or placed near a wall. Personally, I prefer speakers with no BSC, since compensating for it generally lowers efficiency, and makes placement more problematic.

That said, I'd put them wherever the mids and highs sound the best, and EQ the bass to taste. If the port is in the back you will need some space between the back of the speaker and the wall. If the port is in the front or there is no port (sealed), then they can be placed flush against the wall if you like.

The BSC issue is why I don't want to build any more full range speaker cabinets. For bass reinforcement you want the woofer on the floor near a wall or walls for efficiency and minimization of room modes, and for the higher frequencies you want the drivers up near ear level since they tend to be beamier. And the lowest frequencies can be mono since long wavelengths don't meaningfully participate in the stereo image. Hence the popularity of the single sub / twin satellite systems in all kinds of sound systems.

Some good, reliable info here:

http://www.massivemastering.com/blog/index_files/Basic_Room_Setup.php

I don't find this terminology in the manual, however, there are switches on the monitors for Room Compensation which "compensates low frequency boost due to monitor placement". Available settings are 0, -2, -4, -6. (Zero is the default).

I *think* there are ports on the front of the monitors, although technically I don't actually know what a port is. (A smoke, a drink? No wait, that's being covered by another thread!).

I also emailed my engineer to get his views on this topic. Here is what he said:

"As far as speaker placement, the further away from the wall the better. I would start at least 12" to start and just listen to some music. If there are some resonances try moving them away from the wall more 2-3" at a time. Are they on the length or width of the wall? Do you have some good speaker stands? That will also have an effect on the tone of the speakers."

I'm not sure what he means by "good speaker stands". I'll have to follow up with him.

I have seen ads for "The Recoil Stabilizer" ( http://www.primacoustic.com/recoil-home.htm ) and will also look into those.

Right now for my DAW position, the monitors are sitting on short monitor stands which are placed on the table that I'm working from (computer keyboard, mouse, LCD monitor etc. The DP monitors are on tall stands. Both pairs of monitors are at the correct height - my eyes are approximately level between the tweeter and woofer.

Thanks. I will thoroughly check it out later. I did take a quick look, and was greeted with the first sentence:

"If you can't trust your room, the greatest monitors in the world are worth a bowl of warm sinus fluid."

Now that's expressive writing!

Sounds like a variable baffle step compensation to me. Place them where you will and adjust to taste.


If it's a hole or slot into the box, then it's a port.

And any port in a storm - oops, I should probably restrict that comment to the drinking thread. Speaker discussions make me rather frisky. :-)

Yep. Two slots on the front of the monitor - one either side of the tweeter. I assumed, but have learned not to make assumptions over the years, especially where technology is concerned.

Lawrence

PS - I do plan to upgrade my monitors, at some point, but am presently trying to squeeze out the best possible audio from what I've got.

You should be OK then to shove them up against the wall and play with that switch.

Oops, there I go again. Pardon me...

These have been suggested to me as "good" monitor stands:


http://www.hometracked.com/2006/11/27/home-made-diy-monitor-stands/

http://www.soundanchors.com/

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SS42/

http://www.atacama-audio.co.uk/nexus.htm

The "angled towards me" parts is called "toe in" in audio circles and you don't want much of it. If they are completely facing you you have way to much. Start with zero toe-in.

The classic geometry is to make an equilateral triangle with the two speakers and your head and zero toe in. But that is just the basic starting place.

As for distance from the wall. at least one foot. The wall will seriously reinforce the bass and the effect if even bigger if there is a corners near by. The reinforcement is not even and picks up a certain series of frequencies and reduces others.

You said "optimal". Few people have the room for that. Under ideal conditions you'd like the speakers about 1/3rd of the way into the room. Well away from any reflective surfaces. But as a practical matter people hate having to walk around the speakers that are practically in the middle of a room. So you might move then for critical listening or treat the walls near the speakers.

Ignore all of the above if these are musical instrument speakers directly connected to a DP. If this is the case. Find a large console type DP you like and copy it. You will likely find it has a combination of speakers aimed either directly up or directly down and designed so the sound reaches your ears by some indirect path. You might find you need two air of speakers to better copy the DP you like

That's the first I've heard of this. Where should they then be firing? Beside me, that is PAST my head/ears, for example? Can you provide a link that would should appropriate diagrams of this?



Agreed. I have already discovered that at 1 foot, things start to get cramped. (I've comprised at 8-1/2", but need to experiment further to see what I think of the sound.) They were about 1" from the walls before, so even at 12" it starts to feel like I'm hanging out in the middle of the room. (It does make for easier access to the cables, though . . . )

The goal of stereo is that the sound should seem to come from a line that connects the two speakers. And not from the two speakers. the volume level of the sound sources soul sound even all across the line. That's the goal reaching it may not be easy. When you listen to a real system the may have gaps in the center or at each end


Zero toe-in should give a wider sound stage and a larger suit spot. But if the disperion from each speaker is not good it could sound like there is a hole in the center. Toe-in wil fill the center gap but reduce the width of the line


Extreme toe-in when the speakers are pointed directly to the listing spot should make that spot very small. to the point where you can't move even a foot sideways without changing the sound and even then the separation would be reduced.

So you compromise. Quality classical music recording are a good test. The strings and flutes and solo piano should allsound like the sound is comming from the correct direction. Can you point to a soloist with your finger? Does the percusionist sound like he is to the rear and in the right place? Pop music is a poor test because it is made in a studio and the space you here is made up by an engineeer so you don't know what is correct even if you can hear it.

Just start with the "basic" setup, a 60-60-60 triangle with zero toe-in and then adjust from there.

My room is asymetric. So for best sound each speaker hadto be a different distance out and a different toe-in.


Google "speaker placement"
Here some good ones
http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/speakerplacement.html

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-rB0VX4fOmiz/Learn/learningcenter/home/nonHTspeak.html

Pointing the speakers directly at you is the ideal. If they are any good at all your speakers were designed to have the flattest frequency response on-axis, and not off-axis. Also, the largest sweet spot for an individual listener will result with them pointing straight at you. But if the highs are too bright for your taste, feel free to point them straight out, or somewhere in-between.

Play with the speaker placement until it sounds good, then use EQ to get it right. If you have any kind of analyzer (SPL meter & test CD is the least expensive) please use that.

I'm getting a headache!

Lawrence

Thanks. I'll do my homework and read these.

You might want to apply large amounts of alcohol, not necessarily restricted to the site of the injury. Perhaps then it will make more sense (or will at least matter less).

Read carfully. I said if the dispersion is poor you may have to turn them in. He said turn them in because the frequency responce is not flat off axis. We are saying the same thing.

In the ideal case you have very good speakers with near perfect dispersion, no "early reflections" and you'd be able to have zero toe-in. In the real world you have cheap speakers and an even poorer room and they are to close to the walls so you will need to toe them in some to compensate for those defects.

The best approach, I think is to start out assuming everything is perfect. Set up in the classic geometry and then listen for defects. Address those defects by moving the speakers, room treatments or whatever.

if you are mixing music for others to play. You want your monitor speakers to be as close as possible to the "standard". So start with the standard and move away from it in increments only so far as required. You will need some toe-in.

I've been doing some more experimenting with the monitor location. The distance from the wall does indeed make a remarkable difference. I've eliminated some troublesome resonances - some that I was hearing, and perhaps some that I was less aware of. I guess walls are evil as far as monitors are concerned!

I've also re-located them not quite so far apart. I should post some photos.

Lawrence

Actually, if the speakers were mounted so that the baffle (front of the speaker) was flush with the wall, the baffle step issue, as well as many other reflection issues, would disappear.

Of course, the monitor would have to be designed specifically for that particular type of mounting.