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#135653 - 02/20/09 08:58 PM Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
Claudia - Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 51
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
Hello everybody,
I am in a serious process of buying a baby grand piano for me..
I tried many brands and many pianos.
I have found today a Bosendorfer that sounds VERY good, the action is excellent, as well as the responsiveness.
It is a brand new Bosendorfer 170 (about 5.8')polished ebony, but the year built is 2000. It has been at the dealer's showroom... for 9 years!!! This dealer became now an only-Steinway dealer, so he is liquidating all pianos in his stock that are not Steinways.
He says that the retail price for this Bosendorfer is US dollars 101,000.
(I know that is not what he paid for it in 2000, so the first lie is that the $ 101,000 could be the retail price for a 2009 Bosie 170).
Anyway, the piano is in excellent condition. It is new definitely.
Now this is what I could negotiate:
For the piano + taxes + matching bench + shipping + first tuning = US $ 42,000

How that does it sound to you, friends? Am I getting a price I should not resist? Or is it something average under the present circumstances of economic recession?

I am ready to buy it if I can determine that I am getting a price I will not find anywhere.
If not, I am willing to fly to California to try a Hamburg Steinway "O" built 2005, that has been used for rental. They ask US $ 60,000
I was always crazy for a Hamburg Steinway new or almost new (I don't want vintages, rebuilts, or older ones more than 10 years old), but as you know, it is very difficult to find in the USA.

So... should I buy this Bosendorfer right away? (I really liked it). Or should I put under risk that while I cross the country just to try the Hamburg Steinway O someone would buy it?

Help please!

Claudia
_________________________
Pianist for all events - Music beyond words
http://www.PassionatePianist.com
Piano Player Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

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#135654 - 02/20/09 09:14 PM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
TLuvva Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/24/07
Posts: 394
Loc: Athens, Georgia
Relax. And take the risk! It enhances your position. Meanwhile, make a reasonable offer. It might not be refused or could become an excellent negotiating point for a 9 year old new piano. A Bosey would be so much more fun than a Steinway. The excitement of a imminent deal is often too much to subdue, but try to remain calm. It certainly seems to be a buyers market.

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#135655 - 02/20/09 09:20 PM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
Claudia - Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 51
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
Answer for TLuvva: the seller started with a price of $ 45,500 + 6 % taxes = $ 48,230 (shipping and tuning included) and I had to pay for the bench (about $ 650).
I offered $ 40,000 everything included... they came to $ 42,650. I offered $ 41,300 and everything ended with $ 42,000 and this is the final price after a hard negotiation (I mean: really hard), so I know it is $ 42,000 or nothing else, ALL included.

Why is that you said that a Bosey would be so much fun than a Steinway?
_________________________
Pianist for all events - Music beyond words
http://www.PassionatePianist.com
Piano Player Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

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#135656 - 02/20/09 09:38 PM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
TLuvva Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/24/07
Posts: 394
Loc: Athens, Georgia
I don't know about prices like most. Wait for their input. Both would be fine, but while Bosey and Steinway are both top quality, Bosey is well... not Steinway. More to talk about!

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#135657 - 02/20/09 09:46 PM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
Claudia - Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 51
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
Thanks! I will wait for inputs, but remember... I am not talking about a New York Steinway (I just wasted my time trying many, many, many of them in the dealers', I would not pay even half of the price they ask for any of them). I am talking about a HAMBURG Steinway... a totally different animal...
_________________________
Pianist for all events - Music beyond words
http://www.PassionatePianist.com
Piano Player Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

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#135658 - 02/20/09 09:58 PM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
Rich D. Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/27/01
Posts: 1218
Loc: Rehoboth Beach De. USA
I also think you could negotiate a better price for the 9 year old Bose. However I think you may be limiting your possibilities by not looking at pianos older than 10 years. For example, see link below. I've played that particular Bose 170 and it not only plays and sounds wonderful but is in flawless condition. Just so you know it's being sold by my former tech (when I lived in the DC area) and I have no financial interst in the instrument whatsoever. Good luck.

Rich

http://www.jamescolwell.com/ForSale.htm
_________________________
Retired at the beach (well maybe not completely)

"Life is like a piano....what you get out of it depends on how you play it"
Anonymous


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#135659 - 02/20/09 10:08 PM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
CD131 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 103
Loc: Canada
I would be curious as to why that Bosey didn't sell in 9 years. Something smells a little fishy. If it hasn't sold in 9 years, then, what's the rush? I'd do more research, check out more instruments, and, like Rich D. I think your're limiting yourself by ruling out pianos 10+ years old.
_________________________
Steinway D, Pramberger 185, pianist-teacher

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#135660 - 02/20/09 10:34 PM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
Barbara G Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 495
Loc: N. Texas
A year and a half ago the best that I could find a Bose 170 for was a very beautiful mahogany one for $50,000. It also was a few years old, in the northeast US, and never had sold. The reason is that the 170 is small for a Bose and there is not much demand for them. However they play and sound very wonderful. It is just that most people with that much money want a bigger grand. Also the fancy case Bose seem to be harder to find a buyer for them than ebony ones. I guess that the same is true in other brands also. \:D

I also don't believe that a Hamburg Steinway will sound and play much different than a NY Steinway. If you love the Bosendorfer then I would not guess that you would love a Hamburg Steinway. But of course I'm really talking about my tastes.
_________________________
Master of Music, School Teacher, Church Musician- See "Our Adventure to a New grand" thread... http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/18212.html

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#135661 - 02/20/09 11:38 PM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2011
Loc: Belgium
Claudia,

A few days ago I posted this: http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/25881.html#000000

A 2006 privately owned but piano dealer sold Bösendorfer 170 Johann Strauss Edition @ $ 50,000. and found this a good deal.

Your offer, a regular 2000 Bosie 170 - never sold before - @ k$ 42 looks more than a fine proposition to me then supposing youy also have full dealer warranty support etc.

In Europe - I know difficult to compare - a used 170 sold by a dealer and in excellent condition from around 1980[/b] will typically sell for about k$ 35.

Irrespective of price, for me if money was no issue, a Bösendorfer 170 would be my first choice. On equal level would be the Bösendorfer CS200, although a bit less expensive I could not accomodate it because of it's length.

schwammerl.

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#135662 - 02/21/09 12:16 AM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
Claudia - Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 51
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
My answers:

To Rich about "I think you may be limiting your possibilities by not looking at pianos older than 10 years":
Since I do not want a restored piano, in any part of it, that is why I am not looking at pianos more than 10 or 15 years old.

To CD131 "I would be curious as to why that Bosey didn't sell in 9 years. Something smells a little fishy."
Of course I asked the seller that question. He said that at the retail price of $ 101,000 people would buy any other instrument (they were Yamaha dealers until 2 years ago at the same time they had this Bosendorfer). Then they became only-Steinway dealer and reduced the price for the Bosendorfer in March (last year). So again my question was: how is that in 11 months you could not sell this piano if the price is so great? And he said: because if a customer had that amount of money, at that price range we pushed to sell him Steinways instead.

To Barbara G "I also don't believe that a Hamburg Steinway will sound and play much different than a NY Steinway.":
You have to experience for yourself what feels like to play a Hamburg Steinway. They are literally like a total different piano compared to the New York cousin. I have played them (not in the USA) and they have no relation except for the word "Steinway" regards to touch, action and sound. Still, it has to do with personal taste. I know there is an "american sound" and an "european sound" for pianos.

To Schwammerl: The whole thing you have said helps me a lot! Thanks!
_________________________
Pianist for all events - Music beyond words
http://www.PassionatePianist.com
Piano Player Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

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#135663 - 02/21/09 12:17 AM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
alx Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 88
Loc: USA
Two years ago I was looking at the same size bosie. I found a new one in the northeast for about $53,000. I found a demo model in the south USA for about $52,000. This model was used for a few concerts and was about a year old. So I think this is a very good price. If you like it, go for it. The quality and workmanship on both were superb. Good Luck.

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#135664 - 02/21/09 12:41 AM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
Claudia - Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 51
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
Thanks Ark!
_________________________
Pianist for all events - Music beyond words
http://www.PassionatePianist.com
Piano Player Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

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#135665 - 02/21/09 02:18 AM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
tucsonpianist91 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 76
Loc: Tucson, AZ
 Quote:
Originally posted by Claudia -:
Hello everybody,

So... should I buy this Bosendorfer right away? (I really liked it). Or should I put under risk that while I cross the country just to try the Hamburg Steinway O someone would buy it?

Help please!

Claudia [/b]
It's been on the show room floor for nine years. My guess is that you would be safe to let go for another couple weeks to look at another piano.

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#135666 - 02/21/09 02:22 AM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
Claudia - Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 51
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
I will give it a good thought, Tucsonpianist91. Thanks for your advice!
_________________________
Pianist for all events - Music beyond words
http://www.PassionatePianist.com
Piano Player Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

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#135667 - 02/21/09 02:57 AM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
Chris H. Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2837
Loc: UK.
If this is now a liquidation sale then I'm not sure it is safe to let it go for a couple of weeks. It seems like the dealer really needs to shift this piano which does put you in a good position. However it also means he will be doing everything possible to move it on now. What about agreeing to leave a refundable deposit? You are 90% sure you want it but just need a little time to think it through. I'm sure that if you told the dealer you would give him a decision in a couple of weeks he would be willing to accommodate you.
_________________________
Pianist and piano teacher.

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#135668 - 02/21/09 04:44 AM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
AJB Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 3655
Loc: Surrey, England
Claudia

The dealer knows he has an interested customer who is potentially serious after 9 years.

Never never NEVER leave deposits. Very bad negotiating tactic.

If you really like the piano still, after having viewed the Hamburg Steinway, I would give a written offer to the dealer of not more than $40,000 all in, take it or leave it, with 24 hours to make up his mind. Make it clear that this is your final offer.

Ignore all previous negotiations. They were merely skirmishes and are now history, and you can say that if you want.

I very much doubt that the dealer will let you walk away if you stay firm.

Good luck

Adrian
_________________________
S&S Hamburg D, Yamaha CLP 280


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#135669 - 02/21/09 04:48 AM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
AJB Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/05
Posts: 3655
Loc: Surrey, England
Another thought - have you considered importing a Hamburg from the UK or mainland Europe yourself. There are some decent pianos around, less than 10 years old, and for much less than the currency equivalent of $60,000.

Import is not a difficult process, but you do have the issue of trying the pianos of course. That can be helped by a reputable search agent to weed out the dross.
_________________________
S&S Hamburg D, Yamaha CLP 280


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#135670 - 02/21/09 06:31 AM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
Paul H Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/08/09
Posts: 24
Loc: Golborne, Warrington
The title of your post makes it sound as if you're selling rather than buying. However, maybe it would be useful for you to imagine you already had the piano and were selling it. Would you regard $42,000 as a good price to get for it?
_________________________
Paul
_ ________________________________________ _

Sauter Master Class 130

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#135671 - 02/21/09 07:00 AM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
PoStTeNeBrAsLuX Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 2618
Loc: Geneva, Switzerland
Barbara G:
The reason is that the 170 is small for a Bose and there is not much demand for them. However they play and sound very wonderful. It is just that most people with that much money want a bigger grand.

Indeed.

Claudia, let me first commend on your choice of manufacturer \:\) , but do you really have only the room for a 170cm piano? Most spaces that will fit a 170 would also easily fit a 200 with a bit of imagination ;\) . Of course I am biased[1], from both the size and CS v. Black series points of view, but I would strongly recommend at least playing and considering a 200CS as well.

Personally I found the bass response and general character of the 214 size to be so different from a 200, that it was a no-brainer to go for a 214CS instead of a 200 (perhaps used for not too different money), or even less for a 200CS. I would imagine that the change from 170 to 200 is similar, if not more so. I'll admit that the only 170 I've ever played was quite an old one and sounded very 'small' and insubstantial to me, but that was immediately after playing a new Fazioli 212 and 228, a nearly-new Hamburg B and two 214CS examples, so it was up against some strong competition, and was not a like-for-like comparison with anything else.

Of course, it also depends on your musical preferences and general domestic situation. I play classical and for my choice of repertoire and playing style, grand pianos in general start sounding 'interesting' (for want of a better word) from ~190cm upwards, in terms of treble/bass balance, tonal quality and overall sonority. Many smaller grands I have played sounded and felt no better (and some a lot worse) than good quality uprights. But of course the furniture and style aspect of a baby grand is a personal choice compared to any upright.

If this particular Bösendorfer 170 is what you have set your heart on, then go for it; I am sure it is a beautiful instrument. Just be sure you have looked at (and listened to!) all the other options out there, before giving over what is still a large chunk of change in anyone's book...

Best of luck in your decisions.


Michael B.
[1] And arguably have room for an Imperial where my 214CS sits (5m free lengthways), though that would be too much sound for the space when giving it full carrots... er, and I and the family would only be able to afford to eat carrots for next 20 years ;\)
_________________________
There are two rules to success in life: Rule #1. Don't tell people everything you know.

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#135672 - 02/21/09 08:01 AM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
David-G Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/17/06
Posts: 1227
Loc: London
Claudia, I really can't advise you, but I wish you a wise decision. I would just say - make sure that you really love the piano. It's more important than loving the price.

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#135673 - 02/21/09 08:31 AM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19096
Loc: New York City
 Quote:
Originally posted by Rich D.:
I also think you could negotiate a better price for the 9 year old Bose. However I think you may be limiting your possibilities by not looking at pianos older than 10 years. For example, see link below. I've played that particular Bose 170 and it not only plays and sounds wonderful but is in flawless condition. Just so you know it's being sold by my former tech (when I lived in the DC area) and I have no financial interst in the instrument whatsoever. Good luck.

Rich

http://www.jamescolwell.com/ForSale.htm [/b]
A 20 year old used Boesendorfer should cost a lot less than a 9 year old new one!!

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#135674 - 02/21/09 08:37 AM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
Konzert Patrick Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 790
Loc: The Netherlands
If you like the piano, buy it! It seems like the deal of the year to me. I would love to own that piano \:D It will last you a life time.....

Don't let people talk you into a bigger piano, with this piano in your house you will be able to play it with the lid open and enjoy the full Bosendorfer experience. If the piano gets to big for the room, you need to keep the lid down and that would be a shame!

Good luck and do post the pictures when it arrives in your home ;\)

Kind regards from one jealous PW member \:D
_________________________
Schimmel Konzert 189 Tradition

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#135675 - 02/21/09 08:43 AM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19096
Loc: New York City
 Quote:
Originally posted by Claudia -:

He says that the retail price for this Bosendorfer is US dollars 101,000.
(I know that is not what he paid for it in 2000, so the first lie is that the $ 101,000 could be the retail price for a 2009 Bosie 170).
[/b]
It's not a lie to say the retail price is 101K because dealers don't have separate selling or MSRP prices for pianos bought one year and the same make/model bought later or earlier(except in special cases like this one in terms of the selling price). Fine's latest MSRP for this model is about 90K, but this may not have included the latest price increase.

I don't know what discount is possible on Boesendorfers, but it seems like you have somewhere between 50-55% so I doubt many would say this is a bad deal.I don't think it's important if it's the absolute best deal possible. The main thing is, as has been said in many threads, "don't buy the deal, buy the piano".

Have you tried longer grands?

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#135676 - 02/21/09 08:53 AM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
Stevester Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/03
Posts: 2851
Loc: New Jersey
At the very least I would give Rich at Cunningham's in Philadelphia a call and ask him what he has available. He sells new and used Bosie as well as other major brands (Estonia, M&H, etc...). Rich calls me on occasion with a good and he will probably sell me my next piano.

Regards,
Steve Ries
_________________________
"The true character of a man can be determined by witnessing what he does when no one is watching".

anon

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#135677 - 02/21/09 02:26 PM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
Marty Flinn Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 2604
I am puzzled by the post. You have done your diligence. You have found a piano you like. You entered into "hard negotiation" and earned a price that looks to be at or nearly at the wholesale price of the instrument. Why would you do that unless you were ready to buy? Tying up an instrument with a refundable deposit while you continue to shop is foolish for the dealer. It is bad business. One phone call to the rep. for Bosendorfer with the serial number and he can confirm if the piano is in fact new. That done, fish or cut bait. Great piano. Great price. Don't look for reassurances after you have worked a deal.
_________________________
Co-Author of The Complete Idiot's Guide To Buying A Piano. A "must read" before you shop.
Work for west coast dealer for Yamaha, Schimmel, Bosendorfer, Wm. Knabe.

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#135678 - 02/21/09 05:59 PM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
SHPiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 246
Loc: S.Central Texas
It sounds like a pretty darn good price if it is really new. If it has never been sold, then (as I understand it) Bösendorfer should treat it as new and you'll have your 10 year Bösendorfer warranty. On the other hand, as a practical matter, over the years that it has been in the showroom it might have been played enough so that it has some wear and tear (e.g. compacted hammer felt). Since you're serious about this piano, I'd recommend having an independent tech take a look and make sure that it doesn't have any appreciable wear.

Finally, I agree with others that if you love the tone and touch of this instrument and you feel good about the price. . . go for it! I'm probably biased, but I really, really like Bösendorfers. Every day I play mine, I discover new wonderful subtleties that make me want to play for hours.
_________________________
Bösendorfer 225 My New BÖSENDORFER Arrives
Blüthner Style 9 My 1926 Blüthner Arrives
Shoninger upright
Roland FP7
Yamaha EZ30

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#135679 - 02/21/09 06:17 PM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
tangledfingers Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 38
Loc: missouri
 Quote:
Another thought - have you considered importing a Hamburg from the UK or mainland Europe yourself. There are some decent pianos around, less than 10 years old, and for much less than the currency equivalent of $60,000.
AJB,
Do you have some examples?
thanks

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#135680 - 02/21/09 07:05 PM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
rapide Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/05
Posts: 76
Loc: uk
Hi Claudia,

In my opinion Bosendorfers don't have to be big to be beautiful. I had a 200 which I preferred to the previous and subsequent 225.

I think Von Karajan had a 170, which seems a pretty good recommendation to me.

A Hamburg B is, or at least was, substantially different to a New York B. I have heard that Hamburg is now using American wood for their soundboards so the difference may not be so noticeable in future.

It really is a tough decision to choose between Bosendorfer and Steinway. Personally though I find the Bosendorfer tone more enchanting

Best wishes in your decision making.

John

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#135681 - 02/22/09 03:32 AM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
Claudia - Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 51
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
FINAL OUTCOME

Dear fellow musicians TLuvva, Rich D., CD131, Barbara G, Schwammerl, Ark, Tucsonpianist91, Chris H., AJB, Paul H, Postenebraslux, David-G, Pianoloverus, GC1Patrick, Stevester, MartyFlinn, SHPIano, Tangledfingers and Rapide

First of all, I have to thank everyone of you that spent time reading my post and answering it.
I cannot tell you how helpful you have been in my final decision.

I also put this same post in the “Piano Tuner-Technician's Forum”, since I really thought that both branches would have something very useful to advice me. And they really did.
You can check the answers I received in the other forum here: http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/3/4730.html#000011

As I said I was going to do, following the advice from the Piano technicians, today I got not just an RPT and PTG, but this man is also an specialist in Bosendorfers, and has been trained in Austria, inside the Bosendorfers factory!!! Can you believe how lucky I have been, to find such a person, and that he was willing to come and check this piano on a Saturday evening? This is an experienced tech. for more than 40 years now!!! Add to that that this man has nothing to do with the dealer. Awesome.
His diagnosis about this piano: it has never been used or repaired. It is everywhere and everything original. No scratches. Nothing changed or restored. He said this piano must have been played a maximum of 10 hours during the whole 9 years. He said is perfect in every detail. No doubt it was sitting at the showroom the whole time. He suspects it has been tuned about 3 to 4 times a year, so it is in the perfect point that it does not need the initial period to “break – in”. It is in the point of the full potential.
I asked him how much he would appraise it, and since he does not sell pianos (another good thing, he didn’t try to sell me one of his inventory) but has done in the past (more good things, so he knows how to evaluate these facts) this piano should be appraised at the same level of a model 2009, due to the perfect and original condition in what it is.
I paid him the $ 150 he asked (more than any other technicians I contacted), but due to his expertise, particularly with Bosendorfer, it was worth every penny.
And of course, I asked so many questions to this technician. He was a Maestro. He showed (and taught me) every little detail about how he inspected this piano, to the point that I almost feel myself able to diagnose the condition of a piano!!! ;-) He is literally a Maestro, and better yet, a Bosendorfer Maestro.
So thanks to people and specially technicians of the forum who insisted on this task to be performed. This is something I would not have think without you. Too bad for the tech. who answered first, saying that this was not a question for the technicians forum. If I could have been able to delete my post (what I tried unsuccessfully) I would have never gone to get this done. Now I have peace of mind.
So just a little suggestion for the technicians: don’t diminish a question from someone who asks a type of help that seems not to be directly related to their work... You may be wrong...

I had in mind those who told me “get a bigger piano (for that same money)”.
Well… honestly the SIZE is never a matter for me (in every sense you want to imagine, musically or not). What is really important for me is the quality (again, in every sense).
I understand that in most pianos the size means a better harmony, a more powerful sound.
But in the case of a Bosendorfer, these instruments are made with such a high quality, that they can produce harmonics that other brands of the same size cannot. And I experienced these for myself, trying many different brands and sizes.
Regards to the power, the room where this piano is going to be nested does not have the size to receive too much power sound. It has double ceiling height, but relatively small surface dimensions. Having a bigger piano there would force me to play it with the lid closed, and then I will really lose harmonics, and clarity.
When I was a young student (this is many, many years ago) I had an August Forster upright, and even for my daily practice I opened the upper lid, as well as I took apart the whole front of the piano. I wanted to listen the direct sound. So why should I want to play now on a grand with closed lid, being so easy to just open the lid!?
So regards to who they told me that for the same money I can get a bigger grand, I really believe it can be true, but it will not meet my desires.
In fact, this same dealer has another Bosenforder in the clearance section: a 214 (7’) CS (Conservatory serie) which price is $ 5,000 less than the 170 (5’8”) I have been talking in this post.
Of course I tried the 214 CS, and I didn’t like it. I would preferred to pay more for the 170 (it is NOT a CS serie) than for this huge 214 CS. I really think that there is a difference between the CS series and the other (better) ones, as it is not the same sound quality with the C series and the S series of Yamahas.

After trying this Bosendorfer 170 for the first time yesterday, I went directly to a Yamaha dealer, just to try them. I always had a crush on Yamahas (that is before I discovered the Hamburg Steinways). I had a particular obsession with the C7. And yes... I played one yesterday... What a shock... It meant nothing for me. So I have been thinking yesterday night... is it because after playing this Bosendorfer, the Yamahas means nothing for me any more (except the CFIII)? Does it mean that this Bosendorfer is something really special?
So discarded the Yamahas, I have been thinking of testing the Shigeru Kawais... but as I have been advised here (in another post)... Shigerus will still be Kawais, and although it is not a bad brand... they are not at the same level of Steinways, Bosendorfers, Grotrians, Bluthners... and the list goes on...

Now regards to my obsession with the Hamburg Steinways, the only relatively new one I found in the USA is this one I mentioned in San Francisco... Should I fly there, from Pennsylvania, just to try it? What if it does not sound and feels the way I want, and in the meantime I lose the Bosie? I have asked this dealer that has this Hamburg, 5 days ago, pictures of it as well as the serial number, and I gave him my phone numbers for him to call me to talk about this piano... He said literally through his e-mail: “Sure, I’ll have somebody take a few pictures for you. Please just relax patiently until that joyful day, however”. He never sent me pictures, called me or provide me the serial # of the piano. Should I have made the trip without seeing pictures, verifying that the arm is rounded, so it is really a Hamburg (and not a New York) Steinway? This is not a joke. It is a trip that takes me 3 to 4 planes. Besides, his lack of information (or interest to sell it really?) didn’t smell good to me. This piano is being used for rentals... Who knows if he is serious about selling it?
Besides, the technician who evaluated the Bosendorfer told me that Bosies are made almost equally as the Hamburg Steinways, are the closest to them, and used to have this rich European sound (that is what I have been looking for, not easy to find in the USA).

To answer to those who suggested me to import a Hamburg Steinway from Europe: of course I tried it. I was in touch with a dealer in Spain, and the price to put a M model in the USA was 52,000 euros plus importation taxes and shipping. And the New York Steinway dealer asked me US $ 78,500. And of course, I am not going to buy blindly a piano… I have to travel MYSELF to Europe to choose it… Each piano is different (unless you buy one made in serie). So I have analyzed this idea of bringing one from Europe… but it is sooo expensive… compared with this new Bosendorfer 170, new, for $ 42,000

As Marty Flinn recommended me: I got the serial number and I called another Bosendorfer dealer, and confirmed it is built in 2000.

Regards to those who advised me here to leave a refundable deposit for the Bosendorfer and continue shopping around... no way. It keeps me psychologically tied. And I love freedom more than any other thing in life... It is a personal belief. As some of you said here:
“Never never NEVER leave deposits. Very bad negotiating tactic.”

About to leave it for 2 weeks and then write the dealer an offer for $ 40,000: that is not ethical from my part, the way I negotiated the deal. I know at where we started, I know how hard I was to get to the point I arrived (the $ 42,000 everything included), I got information that he is not financially in a hurry... You provided me information in these forums (and after that I got mine through some phone calls and Internet) about what is the real price in the market for these pianos, and also the wholesale price. I knew I didn’t have room to get it for less.
So I thought: I have a deal. Now I have to buy the piano.
And in this aspect, what Pianoloverus said “don't buy the deal, buy the piano” really helped me with directions in my process of thinking and analyzing.

I asked myself: Is this a piano I am going to regret not to buy, if I lose it for continuing shopping around “just in case”? And my answer was: yes, this is something I will regret.

So bearing in mind, as David-G said here: “make sure that you really love the piano. It's more important than loving the price” is that I went there this Saturday evening with the technician. Then I tried the piano (and other pianos again)… and I really liked the piano. The more I played, the more I liked it.

Then, you see… following Marty Flynn “You have done your diligence” (and believe me, I did everything, as I have explained here) and then “That done, fish or cut bait”

So… guess what… I did it… I fished it…
A few hours ago I bought the Bosendorfer 170 PE new from year 2000 at $ 42,000 what includes taxes, artist bench, shipping, grand piano lamp, first tuning and 10 years warranty.

For what I heard in these forums, it sound too good to be true. But it is true!!

Now, if someone wants to hear something also hard to believe, this dealer has 2 other new Bosendorfers in the clearance process:
- 214 CS (7”) ebony satin, from year 2001, never sold (althought it has been used for a few concerts in the showroom)
- 170 (5’8”) model Yacht (what a beauty!), 2001 or so (a higher # serie than mine)

If anyone wants to contact the seller, send me a private message. I will be happy to share my good luck of finding these jewels, as well as referring to the seller of the store who was very honest with me.

Thank you everyone again, you have been wonderful. These forums at pianoworld are terrific!
Have a great Sunday and week, and from my part… I will wait for my Bosie to arrive, hopefully on Tuesday!

Warm hugs!
_________________________
Pianist for all events - Music beyond words
http://www.PassionatePianist.com
Piano Player Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

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#135682 - 02/22/09 04:50 AM Re: Am I getting a good price for this Bosendorfer?
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2011
Loc: Belgium
Claudia,

Congratulations with your Bösendorfer 170, a beautiful instrument indeed; enjoy it for many years to come. \:\)

And thank you for your most genuine testimonial.

I also hope you will continue posting here as from your buying experience there will be lots you could share with others in future.

schwammerl

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