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Originally Posted by John Frank

Ah yes - how refreshing that the snobbish elite are always so dependable in their offended reactions and can always be counted on to take advantage of every opportunity to sniff indignantly, scoff sarcastically and generally look down their long, upturned noses at the mere mention of this "trite, overplayed and overrated populist piece of hackneyed music". smile


JF


JF, I really appreciate how you defend this masterpiece time-and-time again. I don't think it's never been criticized on the ABF, but I've seen it criticized in other places as exactly what you state: "trite, overplayed and overrated populist piece of hackneyed music". Anyway, it's a big deal for some of us adult beginners to learn and it's a great "intermediate study" of how to really play classical music.


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stores:

You seem to really know your "stuff." My response to the Elise question was based on what Herhsey Felder (who spent several years researching Beethoven's life, and who is currently appearing in a one-man musical play called: "Beethoven, As I Knew Him" - across the country to rave reviews.) He has also "done" Chopin and Gershwin to the very same reviews.

After Felder's performance in the Beethoven play, someone in the audience asked him who Elise was. And his answer was basically what I wrote. I know just a little about Beethoven's life athough I am a big fan of his music. But I had to reply on Mr. Felder's knowledge, considering all the reasearch he had done.

If you don't mind, I would like to post this topic in the Chopin thread because perhaps Dr. Kallberg can shed some light some the subject even if he is known as THE expert on Chopin.

Kathleen

Last edited by loveschopintoomuch; 01/27/10 09:06 AM.

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Originally Posted by Nikolas
if you hit alt+numbers you get all the different symboles you need:

é: 131
ù: 151
ö: 148
etc, etc... (the above with the alt pressed down and then releasing).

FùÖ¥Ær Elise! laugh

There's no number pad on my laptop, I use Character Map.
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Is this Elise?

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Originally Posted by stores
Originally Posted by loveschopintoomuch
You might be interested in knowing that that piece was not written "For Elise." There was no such person in Beethoven's life. Because his writting was so sloppy and difficult to read, the publishers just took a guess at what the title was. They very well just made it up for something to call it.

Kathleen


While Beethoven's penmanship, did, leave much to be desired, there's no evidence supporting this theory at all. It's long been thought that Therese Malfatti (to whom Beethoven proposed), was the intended dedicatee, but no one really knows for certain, and the manuscript itself has long been lost (all that now exists is a sketch fragment). There is a theory that Elise, was, Elisabeth Roeckel (soprano and wife of Hummel). At the christening of Roeckel's first child, her name is given as, "Maria Eva Elise". It's known that she and Beethoven had a close relationship at least at one time. The Beethoven-Haus, apparently, will be publishing an article this year expounding on the theory. While it will probably never be known for certain, who, exactly Elise, was, one thing is for sure...Beethoven, would be an incredibly wealthy man, if he were alive today and drawing royalties off his bagatelle.


Here's the only thing Grove Music Online has to say on this (from the works list):

WoO59 Bagatelle 'Für Elise' 1808/1810 Lost autograph possibly inscribed 'Für Therese' i.e. Therese Malfatti.


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it's a gorgeous piece.


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Originally Posted by Crippy
Is this Elise?


Yes, that's her.


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Not only WAS there an Elise, student of Beethoven, but there were TWO ELise's who were his students. They were cousins - and because their parents were both twins, they were 'identical cousins' and Beethoven had the darndest time telling them apart. At first he had them wear color-coded dirndles, but they got a kick out of mixing them up - and mixing Beethoven up but the Maestro could usually tell them apart once they started playing.

Now it was an especially cold and snowy winter in Vienna that year (which year?) and the girls had to bundle up to keep their hands warm on their way over to Beethoven's place. If their fingers froze and became stiff they knew they were in for it from Ludwig who would scold them mercilessly on their slovenly playing. One of the Elise cousins took to wearing a fur muff on her hands, and the other would carry steins of hot chocolate to her lesson - both to try and keep their hands warm. The short piece which Beethoven wrote for the 'fur' Elise - by which he could tell from the difficult runs in the middle who she was - has survived. THe other short piece "Schokolade Elisa' has sadly perished in the mists of time.


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Quite the interesting history lesson Schubertian! wink

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Originally Posted by Schubertian
Not only WAS there an Elise, student of Beethoven, but there were TWO ELise's who were his students. They were cousins - and because their parents were both twins, they were 'identical cousins' and Beethoven had the darndest time telling them apart. At first he had them wear color-coded dirndles, but they got a kick out of mixing them up - and mixing Beethoven up but the Maestro could usually tell them apart once they started playing.

Now it was an especially cold and snowy winter in Vienna that year (which year?) and the girls had to bundle up to keep their hands warm on their way over to Beethoven's place. If their fingers froze and became stiff they knew they were in for it from Ludwig who would scold them mercilessly on their slovenly playing. One of the Elise cousins took to wearing a fur muff on her hands, and the other would carry steins of hot chocolate to her lesson - both to try and keep their hands warm. The short piece which Beethoven wrote for the 'fur' Elise - by which he could tell from the difficult runs in the middle who she was - has survived. THe other short piece "Schokolade Elisa' has sadly perished in the mists of time.


That's all correct. Furthermore, given the high mortality rates of that age, the families were stricken with a deep concern lest one of the Elises should tragically succumb to one of the many ailments that rampaged throughout the populace. By agreeing to name both girls "Elise", the two families found a hedge of insurance against the unthinkable prospect of being bereaved of an only Elise.


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Not only could the musical cousins wear the same clothes, but since they had the same names, they could pass in the same homework, eat the same birthday cakes, and date the same boyfriend! A darker note is suggested when Viennese driving records show that Fur Elise made Chocolate Elise pay the fine when she got caught on a DUI citation.


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Originally Posted by Schubertian
A darker note is suggested when Viennese driving records show that Fur Elise made Chocolate Elise pay the fine when she got caught on a DUI citation.


Driving what? A coach and four?

Or driving Beethoven mad?

Short trip.

One way.

JF


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Originally Posted by currawong
Originally Posted by keyboardklutz
I always find an umlaut and paste and copy viz Ü. I'm not sure I'd bother for that piece though.
With a Mac an umlaut is option-u, then type the letter you want the umlaut on (u,a,o) ü ä ö smile


Thanks, you just saved me the trouble of typing that. laugh wink


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Originally Posted by Schubertian
Not only WAS there an Elise, student of Beethoven, but there were TWO ELise's who were his students.


great history lesson. ha


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Ladies and Gentlemen:

I have in my possession a CD that might shed some light on the history of this piece, as well as settle the song vs. piece debate. The CD is entitled "Beethoven's Wig: Sing-Along Symphonies," which I purchased yesterday to help the youngsters in my group music classes learn about classical music. Sing the following lyrics to the theme of Für Elise:

Here's a short Beethoven piece
He wrote this piece just for Elise
It's all about a fellow named Maurice
Who came from Greece with a valise
Maurice loved Beethoven's piano piece
He loved this piece more than Elise
And nobody could keep it from Maurice
He fleeced Elise and took her piece
He did her wrong, he took her song
It's all he cared for all along
And when Elise saw that Maurice
Had fleeced her piece she called the police
They found the piece in the valise
They all went to the Justice of the Peace
Who sent Maurice right back to Greece
It was all right to her delight
Elise can play her piece all night
And if you hear Beethoven's piece
Played by your nephew or your niece
Nephew or niece perform this piece
Please tell them to remember that this piece
This little piece is for Elise.


That should clear up the matter.

Sincerely,

Heidiv, PhD*
(Purveyor of humorous Deceit) wink

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Gosh, all I can add is that I have been wonderfully informed and highly amused. But, in the end, I still hate that piece. mad And I don't give a darn how to spell it. smirk

All all you are super!

Kathleen


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heidiv: this was AWESOME! LOL!

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Originally Posted by Nikolas
if you hit alt+numbers you get all the different symboles you need:

é: 131
ù: 151
ö: 148
etc, etc... (the above with the alt pressed down and then releasing).

FùÖ¥Ær Elise! laugh


Wow, how about that. Nikolas, would you know where to gind a listing of these all of these sorts of symbols?

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Did Maurice from Greece take the piece from the furry Elise or the chocolate Elise?


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Originally Posted by landorrano
Originally Posted by Nikolas
if you hit alt+numbers you get all the different symboles you need:

é: 131
ù: 151
ö: 148
etc, etc... (the above with the alt pressed down and then releasing).

FùÖ¥Ær Elise! laugh


Wow, how about that. Nikolas, would you know where to gind a listing of these all of these sorts of symbols?


Just google ALT character and you'll find whole sites providing numerical sequences
All the best...Storesâ„¢ haha



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