Nachtschatten, CA111 is old, the CA63 and CA93 have a new really inspiring piano sound, I like it very much, and I had the opportunity to test drive both CA51 (sound is the same as CA111) and the CA63. Also the RM3 is a real improvement over the already great keyboard action of CA111. Regarding the sustain test: Here Kawai still fails heavily, which I do not understand at all since it should be quite simple to get this done right.

These are the limitations / flaws I identified with CA63:

1) Crackling / polyphonic flaw
--> corrected in the most current firmware!

2) Sustain test failed!
--> This definitely needs to be fixed since I can hear it on some of my songs!

3) Volume of reverb effect not adjustable.
--> It would be very nice if the effect strength would be adjustable (like it is possible for the other effects like chorus, wahwah etc.)

4) It seems that damper resonance and string resonance is still not recorded when DP is played using external MIDI data
--> Needs to be fixed!

5) No silent keypress possible. There is always a sound produced even if you press down a key extremely soft
--> Should be fixed, although not such a big deal (for me)!

6) Key off samples are very subtle, and when you hear them (with setting 10/10), not very convincing
--> not a big deal, neglectible

7) String resonance is very nice, but after pressing about 10 keys (I didn't actually count the number) in a serial order to produce resonance, the production of a string resonance sound suddenly stops. You have to raise the key and press it down again so that resonance is again working
--> This is a more academic problem, since you would only in extreme songs press so many keys to produce string resonance. Neglectible

8) Another string resonance issue: The very high notes which are not dampered at all also produce string resonance when depressed. This is not like a real acoustic, because all of these high notes should be resonate when a key is pressed, because they are not dampered all the time
--> Nice to have, but neglectible

9) I don't know if this is possible , but this would be really great: The sustain time of all keys is too short, this should be at least 25-50% longer, that would be perfect! Even better would be to have a dedicated adjustment like "sustain length" that can be adjusted from 1-10 (whereas 5 is like current setting)
--> VERY nice to have!!

Other than that I really love my CA63, and I'm playing the piano with great joy!

To be honest, my information about their reputation is very outdated (several decades old!), so maybe you are right. However, I think, just to try the CA63, it doesn't really matter what their reputation is... you probably have already more knowledge about DPs then most salespersons and if you don't like their service, price or reputation, you just use them to audition the DP only and buy it somewhere else

kawaian, thank you for posting this list - some interesting suggestions there.

As noted previously, if you believe there are serious issues with the CA93/CA63 that need to be resolved, please feel free to send me a PM.

Kind regards,
James
x

Is it normal to hear the Piano goes out of tuned then back in tuned with pedal down? Last night I was practicing and there’s a portion of the piece with G chord duration of 3 syncopated whole notes with pedal down. Well, when I struck the chord and pedal depressed, I could clearly hear the chord went out of tuned for a second or split second, then back into tuned. It bothered me for awhile but then I thought, maybe that’s how it is on an acoustic with strings?

I must say I’m inexperienced and have only practiced for almost a year on an old Viscount. I never heard this before on the Viscount. Is this how it is on an acoustic? Or is something not quite right with my DP?

I'm not the expert but I think this is how it works...

I think on an acoustic piano if the pedal is down and you play a C. Other strings will also ring, certainly the other Cs will, but I think any string that shares a harmonic overtone with the C you played will as well. As your C decays in sustain it become more "pure" with fewer overtones and therefore excites fewer unrelated notes.

So I think it is not in/out of tune but you hear at first many unrelated notes.

Also there is a slight effect on any stringed instrument that if you pluck, hammer, pick or strum a string you just have to increase the tension on it in order to play it. Then as it rings the tension goes back. You can really notice this effect on a guitar if you have an electronic tuner. But I doubt this is what you heard

It could also be due to voice overlapping with the sustain pedal down. In order to create the slight "swelling", and the subtle change of timbre between successive notes, it is probably allowing previously struck notes to continue to sound. So, it is, in effect, playing simultaneous recordings of the same note, played at different times. If the pitch of the notes changes over time (which can happen - I think the notes typically start off a bit sharp, and then fall in pitch - I think this is what Chris is saying), you will hear the slight "beating" between the different notes.

Obviously, this voice overlapping isn't completely authentic. However, it usually works very well IMHO. It is a very simple way for them to enhance the sound with the sustain pedal down.

If you depress the sustain pedal, and play just ONE chord, does it sound out of tune? If it sounds ok, I feel more confident that the problem is due to the above.

Greg.

As mentioned in another thread, the amount of sound coming from the keyboard and action when being played with headphones can be significant enough to keep people from sleeping or even to cause problems with downstairs neighbors.

It would be very useful to try to take the relative sound produced into account when evaluating different models, especially for those who are buying a digital for reasons of peace in the house.

Perhaps someone can find a store that is not crazy with noise and use a db(A) meter to measure the relative sound produced?

I know what you mean. But this is not necessarily about the noise level in the same room, but with resonances that go through walls and floors. I had my old masterkeyboard upstairs, and people wanted to sleep downstairs. When I played you could hear all the time this annoying "thumb, thumb thumb, thumb...". They could tell exactly what piece of music I was playing...

Is that when you gave up Prokofiev?

Good point, though.
This kind of "contact sound" can be reduced by de-coupling the piano from the floor with a raised platform on rubber.

Not sure how we could measure the degree to which a de-coupling already takes place in the relative construction of the instruments.

kawaian said :



CA-63 and CA-93 are not yet available in France, so I can't try them. Does anyone know if the CA-93 presents the same flaws as the CA-63 ? Has anyone tried them both side by side ?

I tried them side by side but did not check for these flaws. But I guess they have exactly the same firmware built in except for some additional sounds of CA-93. Everything else is 100% identical.

Has anyone been able to compare the CA93 version of the RM3 keyboard with escapement next to the HP-307 versus the CA63 version without?

Yes, I did. See my dedicated thread for this specific comparison.

Im not too much used to escapement because I'm mostly playing acoustic uprights. So the additional escapement of CA93 is not a big deal for me when comparing both of them, but it's noticeable when you play very softly.

Generally I clearly prefer the action of the CA series.

I mean anyone besides you, silly.

Thanks to all on this topic for being civilized! A breath of enthusiastic fresh air on a smoggy internet.

Oops, meant that for a different thread (but applies here too)!

For thumping noise, whether from Prokofiev or others, has anyone tried the speaker isolation pads sold for recording studio monitors? You would need to lower your stand by the thickness of the pads.

some quick, NON-ENDORSED googled links:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/251857-REG/Auralex_MOPAD1_MoPAD_Monitor_Isolation.html

http://www.futureproducers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199228

http://www.vibrasystems.com/?EC=Products&CategoryID=11

There are a number of complaints that come up from time to time after people have used their digital instruments for a while. These include:

- hard bottoming out of the key motion causing pain and repeated stress injury
- keyboard becoming loose or irregular
- keys becoming very noisy and disruptive for other people
- keys becoming sluggish or less responsive

- long exposure to sound leading to evaluation of sound becoming artificial or dead sounding
- irritating ringing or harsh sound, particularly individual notes or mid-section making practice annoying
- pedaling and polyphony not acting authentically

It would be very interesting getting any feedback from Yamaha CLP & AG, Kawai CA and Roland HP users if they have experienced or are experiencing such issues.

- oh yes, my CA63 does that (so I suspect the CA93 does too), see this thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...tml#Post1387821

I've come to get used to it, though every now and again it still stops me in my tracks.

Here is another direct comparison between the CA93 and the HP307:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1401918.html#Post1401918

Question for those familiar with both the Kawai and the Roland:

Is my understanding correct that the Kawai lets you record directly to USB both MIDI and MP3/WAV while the Roland does not?

It is my understanding that Kawai CA63 and CA93 records MIDI internally and that it is able to render MIDI to MP3 after the recording was finished.
Now Kawai normally doesnt use string resonances while playing from MIDI or from the internal recorder.
So it is also interesting if string resonances will be rendered to WAV or to MP3.

Peter

CA63/CA93: You can play live and immediately record it to USB in both MP3 and WAV format. All effects will be recorded (WYHIWYR = what you hear is what you record).

Thanks for the information.
So far I can see from the manual it asks: "Save to USB?" when the recording is finished.

So if it records WAV and if it saves afterwards then it must have a lot of internal storage. How much is this? What is the limit of recording capacity?

I already recorded a WAV file with more than 30 minutes length, I don't think it has that much internal storage capacity, so I guess it stores to USB stick already during recording. But at the end of the recording it asks if you would like to keep the recording, and what name you wnat to choose, so this is more like a finalization or a deletion of the already stored piece.

There is also not much difference in storing duration regardless of what you answer to the question "save to USB Y/N?".

Thank you very much.

Peter

Can anyone confirm that what Kawaian confirmed for the Kawai is NOT possible on the Roland?

Yes, kawaian is correct. The MP3/WAV recorder saves the audio to a temporary file on the USB device, which is then (re)named accordingly following the user's input.

With the current software it is not possible to convert a MIDI file to WAV/MP3, however songs stored in the internal recorder (i.e. user songs) can be converted.

Cheers,
James
x

James, to be more precise, it's not possible to store the MIDI data that is received by MIDI-In directly to an MP3/WAV.