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#1364181 - 02/02/10 04:55 PM Would you read music from the Apple iPad?
squeaky88th Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 146
Loc: NY
One not exactly mainstream use of the iPad would be for pianists.

You wouldn't have to carry around heavy books, say like volume I of Beethoven's sonatas. You could bring your whole collection with you anytime.

Page turns are easier if the video showing how that's done is accurate, although repeats would require workarounds.

If lighting is bad, no problem, the screen is backlit. You don't need the whole desk.

I know some people don't like backlit screens and having the thing crash on you if you're performing is not good, but I'm getting one, and this is one of the first things I'm going to try with it.

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#1364193 - 02/02/10 05:12 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: squeaky88th]
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17952
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: squeaky88th
[...]
If lighting is bad, no problem, the screen is backlit. You don't need the whole desk.

I know some people don't like backlit screens and having the thing crash on you if you're performing is not good, but I'm getting one, and this is one of the first things I'm going to try with it.


... and if it doesn't work to your satisfaction for reading music, do you have some other practical uses to justify buying the product?

Regards,
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#1364203 - 02/02/10 05:21 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: BruceD]
bitWrangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1789
Loc: Central TX
This has come up before. The biggest issue is likely to be the small size of the screen. Related to this is that it can only show one page at a time (unless your eyes are _REALLY_ good) which also translates into twice the number of page turns.

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#1364205 - 02/02/10 05:26 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: bitWrangler]
D4v3 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 501
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
A big no on this one. I don't know of any serious musician that doesn't mark up their scores. Can't do that on an iPad; also on a side note apple doesn't support flash. Oddly enough I'm typing on my iPhone.


Edited by D4v3 (02/02/10 05:27 PM)
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#1364209 - 02/02/10 05:32 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: D4v3]
Gary001 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 201
Loc: UK
I think i'd rather have a tablet that runs Windows (or Linux or MacOS for that matter). Then you could run musicreader on it and hook up a wireless pedal for page turns.

I'd also want a tablet with a slightly bigger screen size and resolution.

The final reason though, would be that Apple are too into locking down their hardware that I'd rather have something more open.

Later this year products should start hitting the shelves that use Pixel Qi's new display tech. Which allows the backlight to be optional, you get the benefits of having an LCD style display as well as reflective (like eInk) display without the poor refresh rate current eInk displays have. Assuming the size/resolution is there, a reflective based display would be much nicer to read scores from than a monitor (although that's what I'm using atm).
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#1364212 - 02/02/10 05:36 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: D4v3]
bitWrangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1789
Loc: Central TX
Originally Posted By: D4v3
A big no on this one. I don't know of any serious musician that doesn't mark up their scores. Can't do that on an iPad; also on a side note apple doesn't support flash. Oddly enough I'm typing on my iPhone.


I would assume the ability to "mark up" documents is coming soon (if not already present in the book reader app) since Apple appears to want to target the educational market and one of the biggest gripes about using the Kindle in this environment is the painful way it handles "notes".

Even barring that, one of the "beauties" of the iPad is that some enterprising developer could write an app geared specifically towards musicians to do said markup. Off the top of my head, having the ability to do annotation in "layers" would be very useful (e.g. each layer can be a specific lesson date so one could track progress by "peeling" the layers as well as turning off older layers as those comments no longer apply but yet they are still there for reference).

Then there is the always vexing issue of page turning.

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#1364214 - 02/02/10 05:38 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Gary001]
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 1549
you need a 24 inch screen for a 2 sheet(side by
side) if they ever come out with a book reader
that's actually styled like a book..left and right pages..then they'll be useful..until then I'll use a real(fake)book...

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#1364215 - 02/02/10 05:39 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: bitWrangler]
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17952
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: bitWrangler
[...]
Then there is the always vexing issue of page turning.


Some of us have been turning pages for years without ever becoming vexed!

Regards,
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#1364222 - 02/02/10 05:53 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Bob Newbie]
bitWrangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1789
Loc: Central TX
Originally Posted By: Bob Newbie
you need a 24 inch screen for a 2 sheet(side by
side) if they ever come out with a book reader
that's actually styled like a book..left and right pages..then they'll be useful..until then I'll use a real(fake)book...


That 24" iPad is likely to weigh a bit more than the current 1.1 lbs! (hope that music desk is reinforced) Actually I think one could get away with a single page display if you went with a more creative approach such as have a vertically scrolling score and do away with the page turning motif altogether. This is just one example, I'm sure that there are other ways around it as well without having to resort to simply physically representing a full open book.

edit:

One of the nice advantages of the iPad is pricing, you could in theory buy two (or more) of them and with software support, have them emulate the pages in a book and the overall cost wouldn't be too extreme.

Originally Posted By: BruceD

Some of us have been turning pages for years without ever becoming vexed!


I am vexed by your lack of vexing!?!


Edited by bitWrangler (02/02/10 05:58 PM)

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#1364227 - 02/02/10 05:58 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: bitWrangler]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13779
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I find it very difficult to go from backlit screens to the keyboard to looking at others in the ensemble. The contrast is too jarring, and it seems difficult to switch focus.
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#1364229 - 02/02/10 06:00 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: BruceD]
squeaky88th Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 146
Loc: NY
I was going to write marking up your digital scores is another problem. I think since the publishers own the music, they have the legal right to come out with an application for notation unless someone made an agreement with them.

I personally would have the scores I have that have already been marked up and bring them in as photos and use the photo app to flip through the music.

To read music with it is a nice to have, but I will be using the iPad primarily for other purposes.

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#1370782 - 02/11/10 08:16 AM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: squeaky88th]
mbmleone Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 4
MusicReader is preparing an application to display sheet music on the IPad: http://www.musicreader.net/index.php?target=news&mode=details&news_id=38

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#1370927 - 02/11/10 12:09 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: BruceD]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19734
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: BruceD
... and if it doesn't work to your satisfaction for reading music, do you have some other practical uses to justify buying the product?

I have trouble understanding it altogether.

SNL did a great little "news report" on it: "Apple unveiled its new product, which does stuff that its other products do."
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#1370943 - 02/11/10 12:48 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Mark_C]
Frozenicicles Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/09
Posts: 1324
Loc: Canada
...Or I could just memorize my music and save $500. I really don't see the appeal of this device at all - it lacks the portability and discrete appearance of the iPod touch and iPhone but doesn't have as much functionality as a laptop. The only market for this would be die-hard Apple fans who have to get every single one of their products. Apple has been pretty innovative so far but it looks like they're losing their touch.

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#1371089 - 02/11/10 04:14 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Frozenicicles]
Fredil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/25/08
Posts: 216
And the iPad was obviously named by males. Really stupid males. ha

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#1371209 - 02/11/10 07:19 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Fredil]
jtattoo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 321
Loc: Austin TX
I posted interest in the music reader. I can't memorize anymore, just too old. However, my eye sight is good, the recital coming up is going to utilize pages reduced to 64%, so I won't need a page turner.(Some thing I really would like to avoid!!!) As for markings, if the music reader will let me download files such as pdf, I will simply scan the marked music into the iPad. The only doubt I have is the page turning ability. I don't want a foot pedal, have enough problems with the two I use..............So I would want the efficiency of the touch screen to be as good as the iPhone. Will proceed with caution. Jim
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#1371328 - 02/11/10 11:10 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: jtattoo]
Oz Marcus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/23/09
Posts: 457
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I think I am going to stick to the good old fashioned page turning technique. The iPad will be for reading in bed, playing games and surfing the net - possibly flicking through this forum (as long as Frank doesn't insert any Flash content) and watching TV shows in bed.

M
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#1410238 - 04/03/10 07:46 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Oz Marcus]
DaveRobertsJazz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/08/09
Posts: 74
Now that the iPad is out, it's much appreciated if someone could let us know whether it's large and sharp enough to display a page of music. I'm interested in knowing the readability of both classical pieces and those in jazz fake book style.

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#1410640 - 04/04/10 12:01 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: DaveRobertsJazz]
EJR Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 861
Loc: Bristol, UK
Perhaps I'm missing something but what's so special about the iPad? Isn't it just Apple's version of a "tablet Pc" which have been around for years and years and years.

Why not use a tablet PC with Music Reader software? The software allows you to save multiple different versions of the same score all individually marked and highlighted. It's available for a trial... and there's Adverts for the Air Turn at the top of this page.
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#1410641 - 04/04/10 12:04 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Fredil]
EJR Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 861
Loc: Bristol, UK
Originally Posted By: Fredil
And the iPad was obviously named by males. Really stupid males. ha


Awesome! maybe its the next thing from Apple the "Apple iTamp"
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#1410646 - 04/04/10 12:15 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: EJR]
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5576
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
The combination of MusicReader and AirTurn gives you hand-free page turning forward and back, and even 1/2 page turns (bottom of one, top of next).

I have the setup and have been experimenting with it using my laptop. I actually turn the laptop on it's side and use portrait.

MusicReader also give you the ability to mark up the music on screen.

I think it would be logical to use it with the iPad.

Full disclosure, I liked them (MusicReader & AirTurn) so much, we now sell them in our online store ...

MusicReader & AirTurn
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#1410651 - 04/04/10 12:38 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Piano World]
Mattardo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1306
I tried Music Reader - I don't think it's worth $100 - no way. I can get the same functionality using Adobe Reader (except for all the notations, but even that's possible with Adobe).
Adobe goes full-screen, unlike Musica Reader (which still keeps a sliver of it's menu in the upper-left hand corner, despite it's promise that is has true full-screen).
It requires far less clicks of a mouse to use Adobe, than with Music Reader - having to minimize the menu constantly is annoying, and the library function (while a nice idea) is horribly done, in my opinion. Add to that the fact that you have to wait 10 minutes for the program to convert pdf files, and it's very aggravating.

Personally, I use a simple 23 inch monitor hooked up to a computer running Adobe Reader. It's just a shame that Music Reader is so badly made, or I would consider purchasing it. I really wish the Library worked much better. Oh well, I'm still on the trial of it, but I don't see my mind changing anyime soon unless they release a major update to the software.

Airturn is nice, but again - something that can be done for cheaper with a wireless keyboard or mouse setup with some slight modifications.

As for the I-Pad - it would only display on page comfortably. I prefer a display that will act like a book, not half of a book. All these tablets and e-readers are still on the wrong path, I think, none of them resemble a book - just a stack of paper.


Edited by Mattardo (04/04/10 12:39 PM)

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#1410655 - 04/04/10 12:49 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Mattardo]
EJR Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 861
Loc: Bristol, UK
Mattardo,

<<get the same functionality using Adobe Reader >>

Isn't one of the key features the way that music reader "Knows" to display whole staves and not split the display over/on a stave (which is why it converts PDFs). I guess with a 23inch monitor this just isn't a problem?
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#1410659 - 04/04/10 12:52 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: EJR]
Mattardo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1306
Originally Posted By: EJR
Mattardo,

<<get the same functionality using Adobe Reader >>

Isn't one of the key features the way that music reader "Knows" to display whole staves and not split the display over/on a stave (which is why it converts PDFs). I guess with a 23inch monitor this just isn't a problem?


I'm not sure what you mean...
My monitor displays music exactly as a book would - 2 pages. Could you be more specific?

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#1410662 - 04/04/10 12:58 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Mattardo]
MarcoM Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 246
this app was mentioned on gizmodo a little while ago

http://www.forscoreapp.com/

but it does not seem to support notes directly on the score for fingerings etc.

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#1410665 - 04/04/10 01:03 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Mattardo]
EJR Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 861
Loc: Bristol, UK
<<My monitor displays music exactly as a book would - 2 pages. Could you be more specific?>>

Yep, if using a smaller screen and displaying less than a page MusicReader won't split the display through the middle of a stave/chunk of notation, whereas Adobe will (since it has no "knowledge" of the contents that its displaying). When MusicReader converts PDFs, it 'looks' for these breaks/data.

Clearly, you won't be getting these issues with your 23inch monitor, but they are likely on Tablet PC and iTamps <g>.
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#1410680 - 04/04/10 01:15 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Mattardo]
Chris G Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 737
Loc: Portland, Oregon
For me the ideal music reader would not try to to be just a device for displaying a printed page on a screen. I'd like to see an app that could take music from a notation program (Sibelius or Finale) and display a few lines on the screen in a large font (the user could select the font size).

Instead of jumping to a previous page when you hit a repeat sign it would show the start of the second repeat after the end of the first repeat. The music would scroll vertically so there was never a page jump and there would be a way to speed up or slow down the scrolling speed. It would have a built in metronome for practicing and when the metronome was on a pointer would show you where you were in the music.

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#1410771 - 04/04/10 04:18 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: EJR]
Mattardo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1306
Originally Posted By: EJR
<<My monitor displays music exactly as a book would - 2 pages. Could you be more specific?>>

Yep, if using a smaller screen and displaying less than a page MusicReader won't split the display through the middle of a stave/chunk of notation, whereas Adobe will (since it has no "knowledge" of the contents that its displaying). When MusicReader converts PDFs, it 'looks' for these breaks/data.

Clearly, you won't be getting these issues with your 23inch monitor, but they are likely on Tablet PC and iTamps <g>.


Ah okay - I see. Yes, I wouldn't be interested in making my music scores any smaller and more difficult to read than they already are.
My view on ebooks is: if it doesn't feel like a book, or look like a book, it's not a good replacement for a book.

I love piano books, the only issues I have with them are turning pages, books that are stubborn and will not stay open, books that are very old and crumble to dust, and available light to see by. I am very bad at memorizing pieces, so I spend a lot of time playing from books. I curse Clara Schumann everytime someone suggests I should memorize a piece - if playing from a score was good enough for Mozart, Beethoven, and all their friends, it's good enough for me.

So basically, my aim is to almost exactly replicate a book, it's size, etc. I would love to find a tablet in a diagonal 22-23 inch size - that would be perfect!!

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#1410772 - 04/04/10 04:19 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: MarcoM]
Mattardo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1306
Originally Posted By: MarcoM
this app was mentioned on gizmodo a little while ago

http://www.forscoreapp.com/

but it does not seem to support notes directly on the score for fingerings etc.


Oh yeh, I saw that too. Looks like a nice app, except for the whole I-pad thing..
I suppose it won't work on pcs..

Can't you edit fingerings in a PDF-Editor, if the file is PDF?

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#1410774 - 04/04/10 04:21 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Chris G]
Mattardo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1306
Originally Posted By: Chris G
For me the ideal music reader would not try to to be just a device for displaying a printed page on a screen. I'd like to see an app that could take music from a notation program (Sibelius or Finale) and display a few lines on the screen in a large font (the user could select the font size).

Instead of jumping to a previous page when you hit a repeat sign it would show the start of the second repeat after the end of the first repeat. The music would scroll vertically so there was never a page jump and there would be a way to speed up or slow down the scrolling speed. It would have a built in metronome for practicing and when the metronome was on a pointer would show you where you were in the music.


What about a program that is able to monitor you, if you're using a midi-enabled piano? That would be very nice... set the program to turn the page during the last measure.
Music-Reader claims to do something simiilar, but I don't think it works by monitoring the actual notes - that would be the ideal solution, I think.

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