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#1364181 - 02/02/10 04:55 PM Would you read music from the Apple iPad?
squeaky88th Offline
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Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 146
Loc: NY
One not exactly mainstream use of the iPad would be for pianists.

You wouldn't have to carry around heavy books, say like volume I of Beethoven's sonatas. You could bring your whole collection with you anytime.

Page turns are easier if the video showing how that's done is accurate, although repeats would require workarounds.

If lighting is bad, no problem, the screen is backlit. You don't need the whole desk.

I know some people don't like backlit screens and having the thing crash on you if you're performing is not good, but I'm getting one, and this is one of the first things I'm going to try with it.

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#1364193 - 02/02/10 05:12 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: squeaky88th]
BruceD Online   content
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Originally Posted By: squeaky88th
[...]
If lighting is bad, no problem, the screen is backlit. You don't need the whole desk.

I know some people don't like backlit screens and having the thing crash on you if you're performing is not good, but I'm getting one, and this is one of the first things I'm going to try with it.


... and if it doesn't work to your satisfaction for reading music, do you have some other practical uses to justify buying the product?

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#1364203 - 02/02/10 05:21 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: BruceD]
bitWrangler Offline
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Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1789
Loc: Central TX
This has come up before. The biggest issue is likely to be the small size of the screen. Related to this is that it can only show one page at a time (unless your eyes are _REALLY_ good) which also translates into twice the number of page turns.

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#1364205 - 02/02/10 05:26 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: bitWrangler]
D4v3 Offline
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Registered: 10/07/09
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Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
A big no on this one. I don't know of any serious musician that doesn't mark up their scores. Can't do that on an iPad; also on a side note apple doesn't support flash. Oddly enough I'm typing on my iPhone.


Edited by D4v3 (02/02/10 05:27 PM)
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#1364209 - 02/02/10 05:32 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: D4v3]
Gary001 Offline
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Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 201
Loc: UK
I think i'd rather have a tablet that runs Windows (or Linux or MacOS for that matter). Then you could run musicreader on it and hook up a wireless pedal for page turns.

I'd also want a tablet with a slightly bigger screen size and resolution.

The final reason though, would be that Apple are too into locking down their hardware that I'd rather have something more open.

Later this year products should start hitting the shelves that use Pixel Qi's new display tech. Which allows the backlight to be optional, you get the benefits of having an LCD style display as well as reflective (like eInk) display without the poor refresh rate current eInk displays have. Assuming the size/resolution is there, a reflective based display would be much nicer to read scores from than a monitor (although that's what I'm using atm).
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#1364212 - 02/02/10 05:36 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: D4v3]
bitWrangler Offline
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Loc: Central TX
Originally Posted By: D4v3
A big no on this one. I don't know of any serious musician that doesn't mark up their scores. Can't do that on an iPad; also on a side note apple doesn't support flash. Oddly enough I'm typing on my iPhone.


I would assume the ability to "mark up" documents is coming soon (if not already present in the book reader app) since Apple appears to want to target the educational market and one of the biggest gripes about using the Kindle in this environment is the painful way it handles "notes".

Even barring that, one of the "beauties" of the iPad is that some enterprising developer could write an app geared specifically towards musicians to do said markup. Off the top of my head, having the ability to do annotation in "layers" would be very useful (e.g. each layer can be a specific lesson date so one could track progress by "peeling" the layers as well as turning off older layers as those comments no longer apply but yet they are still there for reference).

Then there is the always vexing issue of page turning.

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#1364214 - 02/02/10 05:38 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Gary001]
Bob Newbie Offline
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Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 1549
you need a 24 inch screen for a 2 sheet(side by
side) if they ever come out with a book reader
that's actually styled like a book..left and right pages..then they'll be useful..until then I'll use a real(fake)book...

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#1364215 - 02/02/10 05:39 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: bitWrangler]
BruceD Online   content
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Originally Posted By: bitWrangler
[...]
Then there is the always vexing issue of page turning.


Some of us have been turning pages for years without ever becoming vexed!

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#1364222 - 02/02/10 05:53 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Bob Newbie]
bitWrangler Offline
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Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1789
Loc: Central TX
Originally Posted By: Bob Newbie
you need a 24 inch screen for a 2 sheet(side by
side) if they ever come out with a book reader
that's actually styled like a book..left and right pages..then they'll be useful..until then I'll use a real(fake)book...


That 24" iPad is likely to weigh a bit more than the current 1.1 lbs! (hope that music desk is reinforced) Actually I think one could get away with a single page display if you went with a more creative approach such as have a vertically scrolling score and do away with the page turning motif altogether. This is just one example, I'm sure that there are other ways around it as well without having to resort to simply physically representing a full open book.

edit:

One of the nice advantages of the iPad is pricing, you could in theory buy two (or more) of them and with software support, have them emulate the pages in a book and the overall cost wouldn't be too extreme.

Originally Posted By: BruceD

Some of us have been turning pages for years without ever becoming vexed!


I am vexed by your lack of vexing!?!


Edited by bitWrangler (02/02/10 05:58 PM)

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#1364227 - 02/02/10 05:58 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: bitWrangler]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13776
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I find it very difficult to go from backlit screens to the keyboard to looking at others in the ensemble. The contrast is too jarring, and it seems difficult to switch focus.
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#1364229 - 02/02/10 06:00 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: BruceD]
squeaky88th Offline
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Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 146
Loc: NY
I was going to write marking up your digital scores is another problem. I think since the publishers own the music, they have the legal right to come out with an application for notation unless someone made an agreement with them.

I personally would have the scores I have that have already been marked up and bring them in as photos and use the photo app to flip through the music.

To read music with it is a nice to have, but I will be using the iPad primarily for other purposes.

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#1370782 - 02/11/10 08:16 AM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: squeaky88th]
mbmleone Offline
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Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 4
MusicReader is preparing an application to display sheet music on the IPad: http://www.musicreader.net/index.php?target=news&mode=details&news_id=38

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#1370927 - 02/11/10 12:09 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: BruceD]
Mark_C Online   content
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Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: BruceD
... and if it doesn't work to your satisfaction for reading music, do you have some other practical uses to justify buying the product?

I have trouble understanding it altogether.

SNL did a great little "news report" on it: "Apple unveiled its new product, which does stuff that its other products do."
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#1370943 - 02/11/10 12:48 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Mark_C]
Frozenicicles Offline
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Registered: 09/02/09
Posts: 1324
Loc: Canada
...Or I could just memorize my music and save $500. I really don't see the appeal of this device at all - it lacks the portability and discrete appearance of the iPod touch and iPhone but doesn't have as much functionality as a laptop. The only market for this would be die-hard Apple fans who have to get every single one of their products. Apple has been pretty innovative so far but it looks like they're losing their touch.

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#1371089 - 02/11/10 04:14 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Frozenicicles]
Fredil Offline
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Registered: 12/25/08
Posts: 216
And the iPad was obviously named by males. Really stupid males. ha

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#1371209 - 02/11/10 07:19 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Fredil]
jtattoo Offline
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Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 321
Loc: Austin TX
I posted interest in the music reader. I can't memorize anymore, just too old. However, my eye sight is good, the recital coming up is going to utilize pages reduced to 64%, so I won't need a page turner.(Some thing I really would like to avoid!!!) As for markings, if the music reader will let me download files such as pdf, I will simply scan the marked music into the iPad. The only doubt I have is the page turning ability. I don't want a foot pedal, have enough problems with the two I use..............So I would want the efficiency of the touch screen to be as good as the iPhone. Will proceed with caution. Jim
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#1371328 - 02/11/10 11:10 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: jtattoo]
Oz Marcus Offline
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Registered: 06/23/09
Posts: 457
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I think I am going to stick to the good old fashioned page turning technique. The iPad will be for reading in bed, playing games and surfing the net - possibly flicking through this forum (as long as Frank doesn't insert any Flash content) and watching TV shows in bed.

M
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#1410238 - 04/03/10 07:46 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Oz Marcus]
DaveRobertsJazz Offline
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Registered: 08/08/09
Posts: 74
Now that the iPad is out, it's much appreciated if someone could let us know whether it's large and sharp enough to display a page of music. I'm interested in knowing the readability of both classical pieces and those in jazz fake book style.

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#1410640 - 04/04/10 12:01 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: DaveRobertsJazz]
EJR Offline
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Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 861
Loc: Bristol, UK
Perhaps I'm missing something but what's so special about the iPad? Isn't it just Apple's version of a "tablet Pc" which have been around for years and years and years.

Why not use a tablet PC with Music Reader software? The software allows you to save multiple different versions of the same score all individually marked and highlighted. It's available for a trial... and there's Adverts for the Air Turn at the top of this page.
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#1410641 - 04/04/10 12:04 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Fredil]
EJR Offline
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Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 861
Loc: Bristol, UK
Originally Posted By: Fredil
And the iPad was obviously named by males. Really stupid males. ha


Awesome! maybe its the next thing from Apple the "Apple iTamp"
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#1410646 - 04/04/10 12:15 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: EJR]
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5576
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
The combination of MusicReader and AirTurn gives you hand-free page turning forward and back, and even 1/2 page turns (bottom of one, top of next).

I have the setup and have been experimenting with it using my laptop. I actually turn the laptop on it's side and use portrait.

MusicReader also give you the ability to mark up the music on screen.

I think it would be logical to use it with the iPad.

Full disclosure, I liked them (MusicReader & AirTurn) so much, we now sell them in our online store ...

MusicReader & AirTurn
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#1410651 - 04/04/10 12:38 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Piano World]
Mattardo Offline
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Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1306
I tried Music Reader - I don't think it's worth $100 - no way. I can get the same functionality using Adobe Reader (except for all the notations, but even that's possible with Adobe).
Adobe goes full-screen, unlike Musica Reader (which still keeps a sliver of it's menu in the upper-left hand corner, despite it's promise that is has true full-screen).
It requires far less clicks of a mouse to use Adobe, than with Music Reader - having to minimize the menu constantly is annoying, and the library function (while a nice idea) is horribly done, in my opinion. Add to that the fact that you have to wait 10 minutes for the program to convert pdf files, and it's very aggravating.

Personally, I use a simple 23 inch monitor hooked up to a computer running Adobe Reader. It's just a shame that Music Reader is so badly made, or I would consider purchasing it. I really wish the Library worked much better. Oh well, I'm still on the trial of it, but I don't see my mind changing anyime soon unless they release a major update to the software.

Airturn is nice, but again - something that can be done for cheaper with a wireless keyboard or mouse setup with some slight modifications.

As for the I-Pad - it would only display on page comfortably. I prefer a display that will act like a book, not half of a book. All these tablets and e-readers are still on the wrong path, I think, none of them resemble a book - just a stack of paper.


Edited by Mattardo (04/04/10 12:39 PM)

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#1410655 - 04/04/10 12:49 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Mattardo]
EJR Offline
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Registered: 10/20/06
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Loc: Bristol, UK
Mattardo,

<<get the same functionality using Adobe Reader >>

Isn't one of the key features the way that music reader "Knows" to display whole staves and not split the display over/on a stave (which is why it converts PDFs). I guess with a 23inch monitor this just isn't a problem?
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#1410659 - 04/04/10 12:52 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: EJR]
Mattardo Offline
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Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1306
Originally Posted By: EJR
Mattardo,

<<get the same functionality using Adobe Reader >>

Isn't one of the key features the way that music reader "Knows" to display whole staves and not split the display over/on a stave (which is why it converts PDFs). I guess with a 23inch monitor this just isn't a problem?


I'm not sure what you mean...
My monitor displays music exactly as a book would - 2 pages. Could you be more specific?

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#1410662 - 04/04/10 12:58 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Mattardo]
MarcoM Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 246
this app was mentioned on gizmodo a little while ago

http://www.forscoreapp.com/

but it does not seem to support notes directly on the score for fingerings etc.

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#1410665 - 04/04/10 01:03 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Mattardo]
EJR Offline
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Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 861
Loc: Bristol, UK
<<My monitor displays music exactly as a book would - 2 pages. Could you be more specific?>>

Yep, if using a smaller screen and displaying less than a page MusicReader won't split the display through the middle of a stave/chunk of notation, whereas Adobe will (since it has no "knowledge" of the contents that its displaying). When MusicReader converts PDFs, it 'looks' for these breaks/data.

Clearly, you won't be getting these issues with your 23inch monitor, but they are likely on Tablet PC and iTamps <g>.
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#1410680 - 04/04/10 01:15 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Mattardo]
Chris G Offline
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Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 737
Loc: Portland, Oregon
For me the ideal music reader would not try to to be just a device for displaying a printed page on a screen. I'd like to see an app that could take music from a notation program (Sibelius or Finale) and display a few lines on the screen in a large font (the user could select the font size).

Instead of jumping to a previous page when you hit a repeat sign it would show the start of the second repeat after the end of the first repeat. The music would scroll vertically so there was never a page jump and there would be a way to speed up or slow down the scrolling speed. It would have a built in metronome for practicing and when the metronome was on a pointer would show you where you were in the music.

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#1410771 - 04/04/10 04:18 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: EJR]
Mattardo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1306
Originally Posted By: EJR
<<My monitor displays music exactly as a book would - 2 pages. Could you be more specific?>>

Yep, if using a smaller screen and displaying less than a page MusicReader won't split the display through the middle of a stave/chunk of notation, whereas Adobe will (since it has no "knowledge" of the contents that its displaying). When MusicReader converts PDFs, it 'looks' for these breaks/data.

Clearly, you won't be getting these issues with your 23inch monitor, but they are likely on Tablet PC and iTamps <g>.


Ah okay - I see. Yes, I wouldn't be interested in making my music scores any smaller and more difficult to read than they already are.
My view on ebooks is: if it doesn't feel like a book, or look like a book, it's not a good replacement for a book.

I love piano books, the only issues I have with them are turning pages, books that are stubborn and will not stay open, books that are very old and crumble to dust, and available light to see by. I am very bad at memorizing pieces, so I spend a lot of time playing from books. I curse Clara Schumann everytime someone suggests I should memorize a piece - if playing from a score was good enough for Mozart, Beethoven, and all their friends, it's good enough for me.

So basically, my aim is to almost exactly replicate a book, it's size, etc. I would love to find a tablet in a diagonal 22-23 inch size - that would be perfect!!

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#1410772 - 04/04/10 04:19 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: MarcoM]
Mattardo Offline
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Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1306
Originally Posted By: MarcoM
this app was mentioned on gizmodo a little while ago

http://www.forscoreapp.com/

but it does not seem to support notes directly on the score for fingerings etc.


Oh yeh, I saw that too. Looks like a nice app, except for the whole I-pad thing..
I suppose it won't work on pcs..

Can't you edit fingerings in a PDF-Editor, if the file is PDF?

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#1410774 - 04/04/10 04:21 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Chris G]
Mattardo Offline
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Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1306
Originally Posted By: Chris G
For me the ideal music reader would not try to to be just a device for displaying a printed page on a screen. I'd like to see an app that could take music from a notation program (Sibelius or Finale) and display a few lines on the screen in a large font (the user could select the font size).

Instead of jumping to a previous page when you hit a repeat sign it would show the start of the second repeat after the end of the first repeat. The music would scroll vertically so there was never a page jump and there would be a way to speed up or slow down the scrolling speed. It would have a built in metronome for practicing and when the metronome was on a pointer would show you where you were in the music.


What about a program that is able to monitor you, if you're using a midi-enabled piano? That would be very nice... set the program to turn the page during the last measure.
Music-Reader claims to do something simiilar, but I don't think it works by monitoring the actual notes - that would be the ideal solution, I think.

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#1411329 - 04/05/10 10:55 AM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Mattardo]
Stanza Offline
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Registered: 01/18/02
Posts: 1458
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I don't understand the need for the display of a whole page at a time. No one reads more than a measure or two to a line at a time. Like Chris said, you could set the magnification and scrolling speed to your liking.

Also page turning could be easily done with tap to anywhere on the screen...easier than grabbing paper. So I could see the use of the iPad for this and more so for lead-sheets.


Edited by Stanza (04/05/10 10:55 AM)
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#1411380 - 04/05/10 12:16 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Kreisler]
ahvat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/19/08
Posts: 125
I love my books. I love the classical feel. The only technology I'm using is the Clavinova. hehe

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#1411438 - 04/05/10 01:25 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Stanza]
Mattardo Offline
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Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1306
Originally Posted By: Stanza
I don't understand the need for the display of a whole page at a time. No one reads more than a measure or two to a line at a time. Like Chris said, you could set the magnification and scrolling speed to your liking.

Also page turning could be easily done with tap to anywhere on the screen...easier than grabbing paper. So I could see the use of the iPad for this and more so for lead-sheets.


Old habits die hard - I prefer a 2-page book because that's how I learned, it's how I've been playing for years. We tend to associate books, lines with parts of the music, eyes go more quickly to where we know we are. It can be quite confusing focusing on a single line, that is constantly changing every 5 measures.

That's just how I feel about it - if I have to give up that because a new piece of technology can't deal with it, I'm not interested in that technology at all. Technology should accomodate itself to humans, not the other way around - and far too often companies rely on humans accomodating themselves to technology, rather than making improvements or going that extra mile.

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#1411505 - 04/05/10 02:34 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Stanza]
Horowitzian Offline
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Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Originally Posted By: Stanza
I don't understand the need for the display of a whole page at a time. No one reads more than a measure or two to a line at a time. Like Chris said, you could set the magnification and scrolling speed to your liking.

Also page turning could be easily done with tap to anywhere on the screen...easier than grabbing paper. So I could see the use of the iPad for this and more so for lead-sheets.


That would be extremely hard to get used to....I'd much prefer my eye do the movement rather than the medium. sick

I could see myself knocking the damn thing off the music desk by doing that.

Ultimately, I think the iPad is too small to be a good music reader. It may be just right for holding and reading, but not IMHO for reading music on the piano. Don't get me wrong, I like the latest gadgets as much as the next geek, but there are some things that all the technology in the world cannot replace. smile


Edited by Horowitzian (04/05/10 02:35 PM)
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#1411558 - 04/05/10 03:33 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Stanza]
BruceD Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Stanza
I don't understand the need for the display of a whole page at a time. No one reads more than a measure or two to a line at a time. Like Chris said, you could set the magnification and scrolling speed to your liking.
[...]


And what happens if you've set the display to show a few measures at a time, so it's large enough to read comfortably, and you come to a long accellerando or ritardando or a pausa lunga?

Or, even worse, what do you do if there is a tempo change in the score? Here I am, barreling merrily along through the first movement of Beethoven's Op 31, No 2 and there it is; at measure 93 there are 6 measures of Largo before the Allegro begins again. It gets even more complex at measure 143 : 6 measures of Largo, three measures of Allegro, one measure of Adagio, 6 measures of Largo, then the Allegro begins again.

Surely, you don't want to have to stop and adjust the scroll speed to the change in tempo.

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#1411762 - 04/05/10 08:40 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: BruceD]
ProdigalPianist Offline
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Posts: 1049
Loc: Phoenix Metro, AZ
If I was that interested in reading music from a computer screen (which I am not), the smallest thing I would want to read from would be my Apple Cinema display...that would fit nicely on my piano desk wink

I am old school. Books don't break. They don't require an electric plugin, and they don't become obsolete making it necessary for you to buy all your music *again* in a few years.
_________________________
Adult Amateur Pianist

My only domestic quality is that I live in a house.

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#1412176 - 04/06/10 11:46 AM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: ProdigalPianist]
ahvat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/19/08
Posts: 125
I just hope in the next 25 years there will not be any hologram books.

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#1412225 - 04/06/10 12:43 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: ahvat]
Mattardo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1306
Originally Posted By: ahvat
I just hope in the next 25 years there will not be any hologram books.


Or hologram keys, like some of those laser instruments that don't have actual strings, but lasers... Eek!

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#1412374 - 04/06/10 04:51 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Mattardo]
DaveRobertsJazz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/08/09
Posts: 74
I understand the love affair with traditional printed music. But I prefer reading music from a screen for several reasons:
1) The music is larger and easier to read.
2) I can turn pages by stepping on a mouse with my left foot, allowing for continuous playing.
3) I have instant access to thousands of pieces of music (tens of thousands of pages) without having to get up from the piano. This leads for more eclectic playing, trying pieces and composers I might never think of otherwise and going deeper into a favorite composer's literature.
4) I don't have to fight the hard copy pages, which too often refuse to lay flat or, worse, come out of the binding.

I fear that the iPad is not large enough to provide readable classical music. But I'm interested in getting one because I think it might be OK for jazz fakebook charts. That would allow me to bring it on a gig and be able to play just about any request (I've got a DVD with thousands of songs on it).

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#1412406 - 04/06/10 05:41 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Mattardo]
Theowne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 1099
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: Mattardo
What about a program that is able to monitor you, if you're using a midi-enabled piano?


Problem is, making an odd mistake, skipping a note, or things like this, would screw the whole execution (assuming it just tracks

Originally Posted By: BruceD
Surely, you don't want to have to stop and adjust the scroll speed to the change in tempo.

Regards,


If such a program existed it would be fairly trivial to have it change scrolling speed on its own at key points through the score.


Edited by Theowne (04/06/10 05:44 PM)
_________________________
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#1412420 - 04/06/10 05:50 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: DaveRobertsJazz]
Mattardo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1306
Originally Posted By: DaveRobertsJazz
I understand the love affair with traditional printed music. But I prefer reading music from a screen for several reasons:
1) The music is larger and easier to read.
2) I can turn pages by stepping on a mouse with my left foot, allowing for continuous playing.
3) I have instant access to thousands of pieces of music (tens of thousands of pages) without having to get up from the piano. This leads for more eclectic playing, trying pieces and composers I might never think of otherwise and going deeper into a favorite composer's literature.
4) I don't have to fight the hard copy pages, which too often refuse to lay flat or, worse, come out of the binding.

I fear that the iPad is not large enough to provide readable classical music. But I'm interested in getting one because I think it might be OK for jazz fakebook charts. That would allow me to bring it on a gig and be able to play just about any request (I've got a DVD with thousands of songs on it).


I think you are absolutely correct with all your reasoning! I agree.
I think the Ipad does not, a substitute book, make.

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#1413370 - 04/08/10 01:30 AM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Theowne]
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17949
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: Theowne
[...]
Originally Posted By: BruceD
Surely, you don't want to have to stop and adjust the scroll speed to the change in tempo.

Regards,


If such a program existed it would be fairly trivial to have it change scrolling speed on its own at key points through the score.


If, as you say, such a program existed .... So, I have to learn - and then remember - that I have to check every piece I'm going to play and make sure that I program the scroll speed to match the tempo changes.

Wouldn't it just be much easier to turn the page when I'm ready to do so?

Regards,
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#1470462 - 07/08/10 12:14 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Mattardo]
Hugh Sung Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/06
Posts: 376
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Hot off the presses! AirTurn is working on a Bluetooth page turner for the iPad, to be available Q4 2010. This video shows a working prototype:



I have to say, it's really cool having a device with a battery that lasts longer than I do in a given day wink Readbility is surprisingly good for such a svelte, lightweight device, and that's thanks to the excellent screen resolution. MusicReader does a great job of automatically cropping borders around sheet music to maximize screen real estate.

For more details on the Bluetooth AirTurn and all our other hands free automatic page turning systems, please visit www.AirTurn.com
_________________________
Hugh Sung
Co-Founder, AirTurn Inc.

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#1470498 - 07/08/10 01:11 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Hugh Sung]
PlebiousPianist Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 28
I think it could work quite well if iBooks was expanded for music. I suppose you could use its PDF functionality. There's probably better, dedicated systems out there though.

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#1470513 - 07/08/10 01:25 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Chris G]
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2622
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Originally Posted By: Chris G
For me the ideal music reader would not try to to be just a device for displaying a printed page on a screen. I'd like to see an app that could take music from a notation program (Sibelius or Finale) and display a few lines on the screen in a large font (the user could select the font size).

Instead of jumping to a previous page when you hit a repeat sign it would show the start of the second repeat after the end of the first repeat. The music would scroll vertically so there was never a page jump and there would be a way to speed up or slow down the scrolling speed.

You can do much of this right now on your laptop. Mine is a Mac.

Method 1:
Save your music as pdf files.
In the Acrobat toolbar, under the "View" dropdown menu, click on Zoom to set the magnification you want. For me the ideal magnification displays 2-3 piano staves.
In the "View" menu click on "Automatically Scroll"
Your music will now begin to scroll vertically at a comfortable slow speed.

Method 2
Save your music as pdf files.
Copy and paste 2-3 piano staves per slide into a Powerpoint presentation.
Set the timings per slide in your Powerpoint presentation: In the "Slide Show" dropdown menu select "Slide Transition". Check the box "Advance slide automatically after....seconds"
View Show
Pages will turn automatically after a predetermined number of seconds per page.

Neither method is perfect but it's hand/foot-free and doesn't require that you buy anything if you already have a laptop with Acrobat and Powerpoint installed.

(Of course you will get greater control and flexibility if you buy an AirTurn!)
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#1470796 - 07/08/10 08:24 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: jazzyprof]
Canonie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 1941
Loc: Australia
Jazzyprof
Those methods must be great for sight reading! As good as a teacher with a big stick beating time on the floor and shouting "Look ahead, look ahead, don't stop. No hesitating!!"
laugh

Thanks Hugh for your experimentation with the technology, and for the update.
_________________________

Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.

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#1470813 - 07/08/10 09:05 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Canonie]
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2622
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Canonie, you're a genius! I must confess I hadn't actually thought of this in terms of sight reading drill but I can see how it would help. I have used the Powerpoint presentation method to make flash cards for jazz chord drills.

Other tips for automatic scrolling (from Acrobat help):
To change the scrolling speed to a specific speed, press a number key (9 for fastest, 0 for slowest).
To increase or decrease the scrolling speed, press the Up Arrow or Down Arrow key, depending on the direction of scrolling.
To reverse the direction of scrolling, press the minus sign (-) key.
To jump to the next or previous page, press the Left Arrow or Right Arrow key.
To stop automatic scrolling, press Esc or choose View > Automatically Scroll again.
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#1476996 - 07/19/10 10:40 AM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: jazzyprof]
Hugh Sung Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/06
Posts: 376
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Engadget, one of the web's top tech sites, has just picked up the story about the AirTurn and it's upcoming Bluetooth hands free page turner for the iPad:

AirTurn Story on Engadget

Cool beans! Time for a happy dance! laugh
_________________________
Hugh Sung
Co-Founder, AirTurn Inc.

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#1477490 - 07/19/10 11:06 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: squeaky88th]
Brooke Taylor Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 161
Loc: Citrus Park, Tampa, FL
Yes, I do use my iPad to read music! It's very nice, I just set it to the bookmarks bar, and I can just access it very easily! I recommend it!
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Currently working on - Ballade No.1 in G minor Opus 23 by Chopin and Un Sospiro by Liszt

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#1477504 - 07/19/10 11:50 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Brooke Taylor]
DadAgain Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 365
Loc: Brisbane, QLD
All very interesting - and I LOVE the idea of electronicly displaying music - but for MY needs I want the following so it can work not just personally but in orchestral settings:

1) Network a series of devices together for an orchestral setting so that a section leader can mark bowings and EVERYONE can see them immediately - no more leaning over to see whats marked on someone elses part!

2)Allow individual desks to add their own 'layer' of markings on top of the 'section layer' - in case players want to add their own unique hints (or amusing 'grafitti')

3) Less important - but a really nice tool for first off playthroughs - a scrolling cursor indicating where you are on EVERYONES screen! A full orchestra of clueless fools blindly being shown exactly where they are - no excuse to get lost again! (and handy when you've got 128 bars of the same stuff repeated!)

4)Use of "Picture-in-Picture" technology to show the conductor on screen next to the music. Some people (typically those less experienced) struggle to 'look up' when concentrating hard on the music. Putting everything 'in view' could only help - and would eliminate tricky line-of sight issues you get sometimes with concerto soloists (who would also need a PIP display), or with odd 'off-stage' instructions in some works.

One of the great things about this kind of system would be the end of dog-eared defaced parts with decades of scribble from a dozen different orchestras doing the rounds. Instead every orchestra could start with a clean 'blank' set of parts, none would be lost and orchestral librarians wouldnt have to relentlessly pursue orchestra members for that 3r Trombone part that Dave took home and gave to Barry... or that myteriously vanished 9th Cello part thats gonna cost $30 to replace.

The downside? Of course amateur orchestras generally struggle to have enough cash to rent a hall to practice in so getting 50 networked tablet PCs with appropriate software is, at least for the time being purely a pipe-dream.
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#1477607 - 07/20/10 03:45 AM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: DadAgain]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7793
I am assuming it is only a matter of time (and not a lot of time) before music racks themselves are LCDs, with some sort of slide-into-place protective cover for those times you use a score on paper. Ideally, most electronic scores will be in some sort of notation app, so that scanned score would be needed only for rare stuff not available otherwise.

Think of this possibility: Beethoven sonatas in which you could instantly switch between multiple editions to try out different fingerings, select the fingering from each you wanted, and compile it into your own personalized edition. That would be cool. Or, you could shift enharmonic notation for certain measures in a piece to see if they were easier to read. For example, some measures of Ravel's Le Gibet are easier to grasp that way. And just this evening I was reading through the last movement of Alkan's concerto and thinking how nice it would be to shift the notation in once section from F# major to Gb.

There is a lot of potential, but I will admit I am not particularly eager to get rid of paper scores.

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#1477688 - 07/20/10 08:54 AM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: wr]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13776
Loc: Iowa City, IA
There is a lot of potential! Personally, I'm waiting for an alternative to Acrobat Reader or MusicReader software. Acrobat just doesn't have the features, and Music Reader feels buggy and has a dated, difficult user-interface. (The awkward button/menu system, blocky scroll bars and

I think once there's some competition, things will get a lot better. Right now, Music Reader is pretty much the only electronic music-reading option. eBooks didn't really take off until there were a number of hardware options and formats. Project Gutenberg was started in the 70's, and online sales of eBooks didn't really take off until the 90's.

The hardware is definitely ready - Tablet PC's, laptops, the iPad, and the AirTurn and a variety of other computer footswitches are easily available and up to the task. Hopefully the software will catch up!
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#1477693 - 07/20/10 09:00 AM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Kreisler]
Mattardo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1306
I'm hoping the same thing - I use Adobe Acrobat currently.
Have you tried any of the free alternatives to reading pdfs? Some of them are supposed to have a much easier interface, but I have yet to try one.

I only worry that this current eco-push to get rid of paper books will catch on. It seems as if every tech site on the planet bemoans paper books as useless, and a waste of trees. They insist that this is because people buy books and throw them away when they are finished. I don't know any of these people - I still have virtually all the books I have purchased. I try to go out of my way to get a hardcover edition, when possible - simply so they last my entire life. Some are better than others, the bindings.

Everything's going digital, nowadays, but I have yet to see any E-reader that acts like a book, and not like a tablet-pc displaying a book. There's something about the way one can turn pages in a book that is hard to replicate with a single display piece of metal with navigation buttons.

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#1478081 - 07/20/10 07:46 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Mattardo]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6114
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Mattardo
I'm hoping the same thing - I use Adobe Acrobat currently.
Have you tried any of the free alternatives to reading pdfs? Some of them are supposed to have a much easier interface, but I have yet to try one.


The Foxit reader is pretty good and you can mark up unprotected scores, but you have to pay for the ability to save it properly. (not an issue for me as I don't mark my scores anyway)

I just recently abandoned my paper scores and use my PC. My monitor is large enough to display 2 pages legibly. A footswitch would be handy for page-turning but since a don't perform from scores, it isn't necessary.
_________________________
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#1479279 - 07/22/10 03:31 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Damon]
jdhampton924 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 1009
Loc: Evansville, Indiana
Short answer is no, somedays you just need to throw your music.

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#1479299 - 07/22/10 04:08 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: jdhampton924]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13776
Loc: Iowa City, IA
You can still do that, it'll just be more expensive. smile
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1481111 - 07/25/10 11:58 AM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Kreisler]
jdhampton924 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 1009
Loc: Evansville, Indiana
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
You can still do that, it'll just be more expensive. smile


All kidding asside...I think for me there is always that computer's can and do occasionally freeze up, be kind of embarrasing midway through a piece. Sorry, cant continue Chopin for the moment, need to reboot!

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#1481125 - 07/25/10 12:20 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: jdhampton924]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Definitely no. Call me old fashioned, but I think we have enough electronics already without bringing that crap to classical music. Plus I think I, personally, can use a little less screen watching daily.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1481130 - 07/25/10 12:31 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Pogorelich.]
Mattardo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1306
The biggest benefit for me is the ability to play lots of music I would never have been able to find easily and test-run, and much I wouldn't have been able to afford - The Petrucci Library (and others) is a godsend.
It just gets expensive printing music out - those notes and staves use a lot of ink!

So it's nice to be able to try new music, and then make the decision as to whether a full edition should be purchased - if available.

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#1481335 - 07/25/10 06:19 PM Re: Would you read music from the Apple iPad? [Re: Mattardo]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
I've had the opportunity to use an iPad since posting above...it's totally awesome for casual browsing and reading. However, I confirmed my hypothesis that it is too small for reading music. At least for my tastes. smile
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