Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards The "Official" Top of Line Digital Piano Playoff Thread

Hi ChrisA, no, I didn't before. Like Nguyen said, I wasn't sure if I'd feel comfortable about posting such information of a high price purchase before. But the more and more I read of how people are just scared off with the AG's high prices, and with your prompting, I decided to put the money where my mouth is (when I said it should be much lower than list) and post it after all, in case it's of any help to anybody. I just made an entry there.

Shucks, Volusiano, you got a better deal than I got when I bought my Avant Grand, and I thought I did pretty good.

You sure drove a hard bargain...and it worked!

Pretty savvy.

Snazzy

OK, let me show MY brief rating. 1 is the best.

1. Realistic keyboard feel and action; pleasure to play; great for classical music; as good or better as upright for silent practice
1.CA93 2.HP307 3.CLP380

2. Responsive, expressive, dynamically responsive, realistic sound; "alive" sounding modeled(?), sympathetic resonance like real piano; Debussy proof
1.HP307 2.CLP380 3.CA93

3. Stability and strength; feels like real, solid instrument including real pedals
All of them seem good.

4. Realistic and versatile other voices
Sorry, I didn't check it.

5. Ability to record, layer and play one-man jazz ensembles with USB or CD
Sorry, I didn't check it.

6. Decent in built speaker system that can stand up to playing piano duets next to a grand
Sorry, I used headphones. I couldn't play them loudly with loudspeakers.

Snazzy, it was the first N3 ever at the dealership and the salesman (very nice guy, actually) said he wanted to claim to be the first person to sell the first Avant-Grand in the state, so he's going to try to get me the best deal he could. I thought it was just salesmanship talking, but he said make him an offer. So I offered $10K thinking it was a low-ball enough offer that he wouldn't take me seriously. But after a little haggling back and forth, I was surprised to see him come close enough to my offer so I couldn't say no anymore and the rest is history. I can't help but wonder maybe there's a behind-the-door incentive to the dealership for making the first sale of such a product (to get a bigger share in, or maybe some other form of bonus), but he was clear he wanted to make that first sale, and he was very pleasant to do business with. It wasn't like he was unhappy because I didn't let him make more profit. He even threw in a headphone after the purchase unsolicited, and arranged for delivery so fast I literally had it in my home the next day before my check even cleared.

As the official behind the official thread I would have no problem with Yamaha being given two slots: the CLP380 and the N2 thereby adding the Avant line to the comparison list. I think it will be very interesting to see how it stacks up to the others, particularly given the fact that many of us who are going the cabinet route already have acoustic piano(s) at home and are looking for a realistic silent practice tool that is other-half friendly and is allowed in the living room.

I do see your point.
However, at the moment I use a bargain basement Suzuki SS-90 with small speakers that does put out a lot of volume which has worked just fine for (early) practicing of duets; performance is of course another matter. I should have said "for practicing piano duets".

If the duets were higher up my priority list, I might go for a Yamaha U1/3 with factory MIDI Silent installed before I would choose the N2.

Actually, ideally, I would then buy a Grotrian-Steinweg or Steingraeber grand and let it spoon with my Kawai RX-2. But, that doesn't help at all with the need for silent practice and the appearance that not all discretionary income is going for pianos in order to keep peace in our home.

I think it is particularly valuable for purchases with list prices of $20000 that the prices paid thread be updated!!!

Thanks for your hands on and ears on feedback.

With regard to the Kawai, I was afraid you were going to say that.

Is it fair to say, assuming you are familiar with the superceded models, that the Yamaha 380 had a better sound than the HP207 but that Roland has now caught up/leap frogged?

And, that Kawai's sound remains its achilles heel despite an amazing keybed?

I personally would not rate the KAWAI CA-93 that bad regarding their sound expressiveness. I actually only tried the CA-63 (which is basically the same sound as the CA-93 on headphones), and I was quite pleased with the responsiveness of the sound, especially after adjusting the keys to my personal taste. This can be done individually by the virtual technician functionality.

My evaluation is based on testing the CLP-380 and CA-63 only but not the Roland.

So are you rating the Kawai ahead of the Yamaha on sound?

TheJourney,
sorry, this post becomes long.
As you know, there are so many factors to evaluate pianos. At first let me say it was a very hard task for me to summarize these factors to just a few ratings.
Let me describe what I did to make this rating. Yodobashi-Akiba had all these three models, so I could tried all of them side by side. I played following pieces for each model.

Fantaisie-Impromtu (Chopin)
Intermezzo op.118 no.2 (Brahms)
Jardins sous la Pluie (Debussy)
Clair de Lune (Debussy)
Autumn Leaves (ad lib)
Thriller (M. Jackson)
a Japanese rock
a Japanese animation song

Due to noisy environment, I gave up evaluating the sound from loudspeakers. I used my noise-canceling headphones.


At first I should say CLP380 and HP307 have different colors of sound. CLP380 has bright sound. HP307 has mellow sound. It is difficult to compare different colors. However...
I felt the CP380's change of tones in the range ppp-mp was good while HP307's was just a little insufficient. In HP307 they adopted the new technology to interpolate the sampling-layers called "SuperNATURAL" however I still felt CP380's change of tones around pianissimo was better. CP380 has 5 layers. Does HP307 have 4 layers?
On the other hand, I felt HP307's sound has higher resolution than CP380's. In other words, I felt more detail from the sound of HP307 than from CLP380. Finally I voted HP307.


About the heaviness of touch, I felt
my upright > CA93 > HP307 > CLP380.
So I voted CA93. I thought CA93 was good for practice for playing acoustic pianos.
However playing some rapid passage on the piano which has heavy touch becomes difficult. The number of repeated notes (on middle C) per second I felt easy to play was
my upright (9.5) < CA93 (10) < HP307 (10.5) < CLP380 (11).
So I thought CLP380 was good for recording rapid pieces.
About the sound of CA93, comparing to CLP380, I felt that the change of tones in the range ppp-mp was insufficient. And I minded the quality of the attack of sound. In acoustic pianos, non-linear and transient phenomena happen when a hammer strikes strings. These non-linear transient attacks make piano sound more realistic. However I felt CA93's attack was too smooth. In other words, I felt something like listening to someone who didn't pronounce consonants clearly. This was not improved by tweaking the parameter of hammer hardness.

However I thought CA93 was good for accompaniments. Easy to play constant backing. Last week, I listened to a singer played Kawai MP9500 while he sang. I felt MP9500 and CA93 has similar tendency of sound. And its sound supported the vocal very well.

Finally, what I wrote was just what I felt. I'm looking forward to other one's reviews. Many reviews will make the trustworthy statistics.

Yes, definitely for my specific taste. I like the smoothness and quite subtle and intimate sound of the CA-63, something I was missing with the CLPs I tested. The sound of CLP is sharp and clear, with lots of highs. You might get some fatigue of the sound over time.

mezzo-poor,
Great review. Thanks for all the time and dedication! One question, if you were to get one of the 3, which one would you get?

Nguyen, it's a very difficult question.

case 1) Since I like its touch, I get a CA93 and use software pianos.
case 2) Since I like its resolution of sound, I get a HP307.
case 3) Since I like its bright sound, which is my type, I get a CLP380.

All cases are possible.
# However CLP380 is so expensive that the case 3 has less probability.

Thanks mezzo-poor. That was very helpful.
Let's hope we get some more reviews in to compare.

@mezzo-poor and kawaian, I know this is slightly OT, but since the next Yamaha Avant Grand might get the new Yamaha SCM sound technology, I was wondering whether you were able to test play a CP1? Also have you had a chance to test the Avant Grand? How would you rate these two (CP1 + AG) in comparison to the CA93/HP307/CLP380?

Thanks!

Madshi, I have tried AvantGrand N3 in an other store. I tested the same menu in my previous post.

The touch of N3 was exactly the touch of a grand piano. N3's sound was closer to a grand piano's than any of CA93/CLP380/HP307. However, I felt somehow not-interesting because it was just a closer COPY of an acoustic grand piano.
And

• In N3, you can just adjust the touch and the reverb while you can tweak various parameters in CA93/CLP380/HP307.
• N3 has just 5 instruments (Grand piano 1,2, E-piano 1,2 and Harpsichord).
• N3's string resonance was a little insufficient compared to a C3 (acoustic grand) in the same store.

A Yamaha's staff secretly said "You can buy a silent grand with the price of N3". Of course a silent grand requires expensive maintenance but a silent grand + a software piano might be a better solution for me.

I haven't tried CP1 yet.

My preference would also be to buy a Yamaha C2 Silent above the Avant Grand (which is apparently where they got their idea for the instrument).

Beyond the real action, what most impresses one about the Avant Grand is the FORTE part of pianoFORTE, namely VOLUME, but the sound does not sound alive as it does from a real acoustic.

mezzo-poor thanks again. From a scale of 1-10, how would you rate the 3?

CA93 – Touch: Sound: Overall:

HP-207 – Touch: Sound: Overall:

CLP-380 – Touch: Sound: Overall:

If you need one for practice and leisure, all in one package, using its own built-in speakers and amplification, without software or additional gadgets, ignore its cost for now-meaning you can afford anyone one of them but not both or 3, which one would you get?

Again, I know it’s not an easy question, but that’s what I’m going to have to do in a few weeks when the HP-307 and CA93 are in stores here in the US. Based on your taste and preference, which of the 3 you would get and be happy to sacrifice what you’d miss from the other 2?

Nguyen, I assume you meant CA93 above...