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#1368812 - 02/08/10 05:30 PM Fantasie Impromptu Op. 66 ( Measures 11-12 and 33-34)
Zahza Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/07/10
Posts: 5
Greetings fellow pianists.

I've been currently working on Fantasie Impromptu 0p. 66 (Fontana Version) for the past month and a half but I've run into problems with the infamous measures 11-12 but also measures 33-34. I can play both hands seperately quite well but when I add them both together, the triplets in the left cause my right hand to freeze up thus creating an ugly mess when I play those measures. Even playing it slowly, my right hand freezes up. My guess is that the last two eighth notes in each triplet are causing me to freeze up because I'm hitting the first 4 notes accuratley with both hands while playing at a decent speed but when I force my left hand to play the last two eighth notes of each triplet together with the right hand, the right hand starts to stumble.

Any kind of help will be appreciated.


Edited by Zahza (02/08/10 07:36 PM)

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#1368929 - 02/08/10 07:49 PM Re: Fantasie Impromptu Op. 66 ( Measures 11-12 and 33-34) [Re: Zahza]
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2598
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
I've also been working on this piece for the past few months. My problem had been with measures 7 - 8. A change of fingering solved the problem.

Your problems with measures 11-12 and 33-34 could be rhythm related or fingering related. Since you say you can play each hand well (separately) and that the problems arise when you put your hands together, it could be that the fingering that works for you HS is not optimum for HT play. If you have no problems with measures 3-10 then I assume you have the polyrhythm thing down. What fingering are you using for 11-12? You might need to experiment with different fingerings.

If your problem is rhythm related you need to practice each hand over and over until it's automatic. Be sure that you have memorized those measures. When you put the hands together, first focus on the notes where the left and right hands play simultaneously. Simply make sure that those simultaneous notes are struck together. The rest should fall in place.
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#1368969 - 02/08/10 08:35 PM Re: Fantasie Impromptu Op. 66 ( Measures 11-12 and 33-34) [Re: jazzyprof]
Zahza Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/07/10
Posts: 5
Thanks for the tips jazzyprof. The fingering im using during measure 11 is 2121243215432132. For measure 33 its 2121254321321432 for measure 34 its 1212154321321432.

Practiced measure 12 by itself last night using the Fontana fingering and I didnt have any problems playing with both hands. The problems still persists though through measure 11.

If you look closely, measure 11's note pattern structure is somewhat similar during measure 33-34(both hands start together, the last note of the 2nd and 4th pair of sixteenth notes are played right after the end of the of the last eighth note in the left hand.

I've tried playing measure 11, 33 and 34 while only hitting the first note of each group of eighth notes while playing the right hand at the same time(Same method I used to get the polyryhthm and hand coordination down in all the other measures). It was effective seeing how now I know where I needed to make my transitions into another group of eighth notes but when I played the full arpeggio while playing the right hand at the same time, after hitting that 4th note, problems arose once again. I can easily play the measure without playing the last two notes of each group of eighth notes, but its not meant to be played like that.

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#1368978 - 02/08/10 08:46 PM Re: Fantasie Impromptu Op. 66 ( Measures 11-12 and 33-34) [Re: Zahza]
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2598
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
The fingering you use in 11 and 33 seems a bit odd to me. Instead of 21212 to start, I use 23212. I'll have to check the other fingerings. Just try playing these 5 notes in the RH with the 4 in the LH using this fingering and see how it feels. Do it slowly.
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#1368988 - 02/08/10 08:56 PM Re: Fantasie Impromptu Op. 66 ( Measures 11-12 and 33-34) [Re: jazzyprof]
Zahza Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/07/10
Posts: 5
Yes the fingering might be odd but I dont have to stretch much to reach the E in measure 33 nor the B in measure 11. I will give your fingering a try


Edited by Zahza (02/08/10 09:03 PM)

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#1369034 - 02/08/10 09:40 PM Re: Fantasie Impromptu Op. 66 ( Measures 11-12 and 33-34) [Re: Zahza]
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2598
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Originally Posted By: Zahza
Thanks for the tips jazzyprof. The fingering im using during measure 11 is 2121243215432132.

Zahza, I just tried out your fingering and I am sure that's where the problem lies. First of all you can't attain any velocity with the 21212 you use to start off the phrase. Then there is that awkward stretch from 2(D#) to 4(B) (ouch!). You should use 5 there. And in the last three notes I see you putting thumb on A#. Not good. Here is the fingering I use for that measure:

23212 5321 5431321

Give it a try. smile
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#1369338 - 02/09/10 09:55 AM Re: Fantasie Impromptu Op. 66 ( Measures 11-12 and 33-34) [Re: jazzyprof]
Rachel J Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 324
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
FYI, I do almost the same fingering as JazzyProf, and I agree that your fingering is undoubtedly causing you problems!

Here's mine: 23212 5321 5321 321
_________________________
Rachel Jimenez Piano teacher in Brooklyn, NY / Author of Fundamental Keys method
My professional website: FundamentalKeys.com
Latest blog post: "A marvelous pianist and mentor"

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#1369617 - 02/09/10 04:16 PM Re: Fantasie Impromptu Op. 66 ( Measures 11-12 and 33-34) [Re: Rachel J]
Zahza Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/07/10
Posts: 5
Tried your fingering, it's quite uncomfortable for me. My 4th finger can really stretch far (9 white keys)and it also has to do with my hand motions when I play through that phrase.

I somewhat solved the problem during measure 11 though. I've isolated the area where I make my mistake and its mostly caused by my 5th and 4th finger after jumping from that G natural to the E.

What I've tried to do is placing an accent on the E,D,C notes while playing boths hand together at a decent tempo. Its yearning some good results (My 5th and 4th fingers were skimming too quickly past those notes for some odd reason thus creating a mess when I kept on going).

I seem to be suffering the same symptom while playing measures 33-34, so placing accents there on E,D,D Natural ,C and B # should help to correct my problem there.

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated


Edited by Zahza (02/09/10 04:27 PM)

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