Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Argerich's Page Turner Mishap

And this why future pianos need to have an LED screen on the sheet music stand!

I had to page turn recently- during a festival competition without any warning whatsoever! It was stressful and I did lose my place in the score- luckily the lad nodded and all went well! Whew!

The last time I turned pages for someone, he was playing a Mendelssohn trio, and the piano part seemed to go at one page every twenty seconds. I did relatively fine on every part except those two pages he hadn't memorized.

I once paged turned for an organist (semi-well known in the UK) at a very well attended recital. The organ console was fortunately out of sight. Lo and behold, during one of the more treacherous Bach P&Fs (the D major if there are any organists here), he made a few highly exposed mistakes and then muttered the 'F' word.

In a house of God, no less.

Yep, that's about right! (or perhaps even less...)

Mark, you seem kind of high maintenance. I've turned many, many times, a few times for famous pianists. I've also had turners for myself in chamber and other collaborative concerts. I've never had any problems, save for one girl who turned for me waaay too early in a rhythmically taxing piece, multiple times. That was frustrating.

I'm not sure how you figure that the girl forgot the repeat-just as she stands up, Argerich waves her off (both times that figure comes around) And Martha is already turning herself by the time the girl's rear hits the chair again, so there goes the "too early" theory. How do you know whether she was about to mess up and turn forward instead of backward?

And really, I mean really, if you find someone standing up 10 seconds (8:05-8:15)or 7 seconds (9:08-9:15) prior to the turn (just as the last phrase of the page is begining) to be excessively early, I will never ask you to turn for me. I rather panic when turners wait until the last absolute moment, then fumble with getting one (and only one) page in their grip. I would far rather they stand slowly and gradually reach over, making sure they have only one page, and gently turn..rather than stand 2 seconds before the turn, sloppily grab, and rip the pages back noisiliy.

I still don't understand the "major mishaps," in other words. The girl was not standing at an inappropriate time; again, Martha's already turning her own pages by the time the girl has even had time to sit down again after being waved off.

I'll confess that butterflies can exist when turning for a big name, but really guys, I'm not sure about the whole "big deal, markings in the score to the half beat, exact science" thing. It's really not a very difficult job. If you're a pianist who can read fairly well, then the time to turn should be pretty obvious. The only special instructions that (I think) should ever be required are "yes, we're taking this repeat. Make sure you note the tempo change at the bottom of this page-be ready to turn early. I'd rather take this page turn myself." That type of thing.

edit-that said, I'll admit the girl's mouth thing and leg-crossing at the end was rather cringe-worthy.

Huh?
But thanks anyway for adding the smiley.


I'm not sure where you're coming from there. There is no doubt that the turner messed up somehow. The only question is how. And there are various possibilities, as you sort of hinted.

In my other post I only covered that particular thing in a simplified way, and so I didn't give all the possible details about it, which would have taken a lot more space in that already-long post. I'll fill in the rest if you're really interested and if you'll think openly about it, which I'm not sure you will, based on what you've said so far. If you wish, just ask for it, and I'll be glad to say more. But it looks like you didn't try very hard to understand what I did say, and if your main point is to reject all of it and say that she didn't necessarily mess up there somehow, you are mistaken.


Again, it seems that you didn't read my post well. One of the main things I said was that the performer and the turner need to confer in advance. Most performers don't wish you to stand up and reach for the page 11 seconds or even 7 seconds in advance, and Argerich obviously had a problem with it. (Right?) If you, as a performer, want the turner to get up and grab the page sooner, you can indicate that -- and you better, because it's unusual.

I gave all those details for YOUR benefit, since you had asked what was the problem. You're not appreciating the effort I made because of your question and on your behalf, and instead you're slamming it down.


I told you what they are. If you disagree that they were mishaps, fine -- but evidently Argerich thought so, and I can tell you that most people would have.


FALSE.
And she did it several times.


False as well.


Good for you. But that part was the least of it. If you feel like thinking a little more about the rest of the stuff, you might find value in it too.

Speaking of the Mendelssohn D minor: here's a guy who doesn't need help turning pages.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL2ftX-xC4w

I just want to say that Argerich , while somewhat eccentric, is a very gracious lady. She is notoriously generous with young people. I watched the clip but I got carried away with the music making and forgot to analyze the page turner..
The other daughters are Annie who lives in NY and Stephanie. They are not professional musicians .

Great video!

Here's another performer who doesn't need help with the page turns. I don't mean the Moonlight; start the video at 6:25.



-Jason

Very neat! I've turned my own pages in that trio but not nearly so deftly - more like a frantic whip-over.

Indeed. But she chooses her musical cohorts very well, and woe to those who do not measure up. This could include page turners. I would have done a better job, and kissed her backstage. (Methinks I'm young enough for her to be attracted to me... hehe, just kidding.)

Seriously, the other day I heard Argerich's recording of the Schumann Eb Piano Quintet back to back with Menahem Pressler's recording. It was almost embarrassing. Pressler is a very great chamber pianist, but at literally every juncture, Argerich just took him to the cleaners. Pressler plays the notes with an all-understanding efficiency, Argerich does that and more. She brings her unique genius to this music. Simply no comparison.

Yikes, why so touchy, Mark? I put a smiley, I didn't intend to sound brash! Based on my particular experiences (and preferences) I simply don't agree with the ideas you presented, but I didn't intend for you to take my statements as personal attacks or anything. Why the venomous response? Of course I appreciate your input, don't think otherwise.

Now, I really have to say I think you're wrong to gander that "it's very unusual" to be ok with a turner rising 7 seconds in advance. I'm sure you have your experience, too, but I've turned for countless pianists in countless concerts, and have never encountered your version of the norm; and I certainly seem to recall seeing my version in performance with other turners, both as audience member and performer We could be really nerdy and look up YouTube clips with average stand-time-to-tempo ratios to argue our versions, but you probably, like I, have better things to do with your time.

And I did read your post, don't worry. You don't have to get all huffy, now, and tell me "how it is" "for my benefit." I work in the industry too, you know. Maybe you're spot on with your explanation for Argerich's discontent, but it didn't add up to me. Shrug.

some years ago I was asked to turn pages for a pianist accompanying a violin recital - about 15 mins before the performance. I remember the pianist telling me "Don't worry it's easy" (I was not yet a music student). It was my first time.

He didn't tell me about the half pages. For some reason a few of the pages had their top halves missing and the score was such a "creative" construction of photocopied pages, staples and sticky tape that you couldn't see what was stuck on and what was a flap or half page. And he didn't mention whether they were doing repeats or not. So I was trying to be useful and he was slamming these flaps of paper back and forth, vigorously. Grrrrr.
It was way too easy to accidentally turn two, I mean one and a half, pages at once by grabbing the top corner. It_was_horrible.

My commiserations to all who have had page turn disasters. I was asked quite recently (on the spot) to turn for a musician well known in this country. I pointed to a friend (more conveniently dressed in black), said "ask her!" and ran away, hehe. Actually I really wanted to hear the concert from my seat and enjoy it.

Yes, but I have a better idea.



Wow, I didn't know the link was that long! The is the Army Land Warrior helmet. It has a small computer screen that flips down just in front of one eye and can present any data you need. Wearing this, you could have the entire repertoire on disc at your belt, and scroll as needed. It's portable, you can even use this in a parade.

HEre, maybe this link is better.

Well, if they don't work, google "land warrior helmet".

Nope. Sorry.

Ahhh, cyborg pianists. That's an amusing visual.

Here's why.

You saw a video where you didn't understand why Argerich was doing what she did. You made it sound not just that you disagreed with Argerich's reactions, but that you didn't know what the story was.

So, I explained it, in great detail and at some effort. Unless your initial question was just rhetorical -- i.e. if what you really meant was "Argerich is being wrong and unfair to the page turner" -- I gave you the answer you seemed to be asking for. I explained exactly what was going on. It so happens that I "agree" with Argerich's reactions, as I made clear, but never mind about that -- the main thing was that I was answering your question and giving details, with specific time references to the video. And you then rejected and argued against everything I had said, except a small footnote.

That's why.

Amusing, but disheartening.

Sooner or later, robots will have the ability to technically master any piano piece! Add emotional chips (such as Data in Star Trek) and they will be able to play Moonlight Sonata 1st movement to bring the audience to tears, and all collective pianists to destroyed careers

I don't know why more pianist don't use something like this.

AirTurn MusicReader

I've been playing with this system a little now, the more I use it the more I like it. To the point where Piano World has become an affiliate and I intend to sell it in our store.

Yes, I know, I'm promoting products after telling everyone the rule is no promoting on the forums.

But considering I support the forums (and Piano World) by selling products and advertising, you'll have to forgive me.

Besides, there has to be some advantage to being the Founder/Host/Owner :-)

Seriously though, the combination of the AirTurn pedal system (for turning pages) and the MusicReader (for displaying sheet music on a monitor) really impressed me.

While I am by no stretch of the imagination in a league with the likes of MS Argerich, I still hate dealing with turning pages.

This system lets me carry all my music in my laptop, and change pages forward and back (plus many more features, including making notations on the digital version of the music) at the click of a pedal.





Sorry for the commercial in the middle of your thread, but it seemed appropriate and I believe offers a viable solution to the issue.


AirTurn and MusicReader


Perhaps I should send this ad to MS Argerich?

That product would certainly hurt publisher revenues since it only supports digital versions of sheet music. I'm sure classical pianists (who would get their music from the Petrucci database) who also have a tablet computer could use that product well.