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#1382432 - 02/25/10 02:34 AM any JOY of Improvisation students?
saiman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 125
Hi there. was just wondering if there are any other people working through the book and what your experiences were.

I would be interested in how long it takes you to get through a lesson too

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Piano & Music Accessories
#1382504 - 02/25/10 07:50 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: saiman]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2995
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Saiman,

I have been on this method studying with Dave for over a year now, I am halfway through book 2. I spend 2 weeks per lessons.
We also do improvisation, composition, and imitation (singing along to solos). Often, I'll keep improvising on a tune for longer than 2 weeks.

Let me know if you have questions
++

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#1382511 - 02/25/10 08:07 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: knotty]
saiman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 125
oh ok, that great to know. So you can definitely say its worth the hard work? It takes me 3 weeks easily to do the lesson properly if I practice 1-2 hours a day. Was just wondering if that normal cos it seems long to me.

I noticed that it makes sense to work out a good fingering and write it down. Any thoughts on that?

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#1382513 - 02/25/10 08:09 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: saiman]
saiman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 125
oh something else, when you do the JOY line in all key, do you do it with the left hand chords. In other words do you also work out the left hand chords in all key and practice them with the line. That also takes me a while

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#1382517 - 02/25/10 08:33 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: saiman]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2995
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
yes, from playing the tunes, you get a couple of things. If your reading is not too good, you'll improve that just enough to play from leadsheets later on.
It's a good idea to write down the fingering.

You can do the solo patterns in all keys, but you don't have to. We don't do it. Dave told you on the other thread that you don't have to do it, you'll save a lot of time that way. But it can't hurt.

The important part is to sing the tunes. PLay LH chords while singing the lines. That's important, so don't skip that.
Also you can record yourself playing them and take them along wherever you go. That's an easy way to find time to practice the singing part.

Is it worth the hard work?
I'm pretty convinced Dave is one of the best Jazz teachers out there. I've never asked myself what to practice on since I started, I got plenty to do. And if I was ever playing more, he'd give me tons of other things to work on .

Above all, I'm really having fun with it. The singing part will pay off.

take care

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#1382528 - 02/25/10 09:07 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: knotty]
saiman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 125
thanks knotty. yes dave is awesome. I just listened to his charlie parker lesson. Also had a look at your blog. Great stuff. You dont even sound like you need lessons smile

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#1382614 - 02/25/10 11:17 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: saiman]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2995
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
haha, thanks, but I think I'm a student for life!

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#1382693 - 02/25/10 12:59 PM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: knotty]
davefrank Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 672
you're not transposing the tunes in all keys, are you? Just the jazzhanon:)

Dave Frank

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#1383531 - 02/26/10 04:32 PM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: davefrank]
saiman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 125
Originally Posted By: davefrank
you're not transposing the tunes in all keys, are you? Just the jazzhanon:)

Dave Frank


Oh no that would be crazy, I meant the solo pattern. Maybe I also worry too much about perfectionizing every piece. Its just that I never seem to be able to play a piece without messing up somewhere. So I keep practicing them over and over.

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#1383566 - 02/26/10 05:35 PM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: saiman]
davefrank Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 672
That's more of the classical approach. It's enough to learn the pieces, play them at a comfortable tempo, and try to get them 90%. The other 10% is gravy! In jazz, it's not about get everything note perfect, it's more about the process, the enjoyment, and the swing. Play the pieces a few times, sing them also, then forget em:)Go on.

It's so wonderful to have this music with you for your whole life. It snowed 20" today in NYC, I'm having a great day practicing in the great indoors on 52nd St. Endless improvisation, constantly expanding, a growing, intriguing, interesting and changing process, what a groove:)

Dave Frank

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#1383689 - 02/26/10 09:22 PM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: davefrank]
Riddler Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 615
Loc: Florida
I ordered both volumes in a burst of enthusiasm after watching the Charlie Parker program. They arrived yesterday, and I started on the first lesson today.

Not sure what I'll do about transposing the solo lines. I'm thinking I might try a compromise - transpose to two or three keys - the easiest ones, of course. I can do that on the fly, once I know the line, but I'm afraid that if I try to do all keys it will become one of those dreaded chores that sap my enthusiasm.

BTW, I absolutely love the early Louis Armstrong recordings. "Struttin' With Some Barbecue" - - what a magnificent performance!!!

Ed
_________________________
http://edsjazzpianopage.blogspot.com/

My fingers are slow, but easily keep pace with my thoughts.


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#1384686 - 02/28/10 10:44 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: Riddler]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2995
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Hey Riddler, welcome to the club. One thing I'm realizing is that nothing in this method should ever get boring. With each lesson, you have a variety from jazz hanons and voicings, to playing tunes, composing them, and improvising on them. And then, there's the singing along.

there's stutting, the first singing along I did. However, I didn't record the singing then, but now, I started doing that. Let them laugh wink
http://jazzitup-knot.blogspot.com/2009/02/back-to-pops.html

One thing that amazes me, more so with Bird than the others, is how when you slow it down, you start hearing things you never realized were there. In particular, how beautiful the lines are. And then, at full speed, it starts becoming more understandable.
I can't imagine the surprise of those who first discovered Bird on 52nd St.

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#1385213 - 02/28/10 11:30 PM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: knotty]
Riddler Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 615
Loc: Florida
Knotty,

Thanks for the welcome! And for the encouragement!

I know what you mean about finding great lines when you slow things down. I don't have any Slowdowner software (I suppose I oughta get some), but sometimes I slow down recordings with Windows Media Player. I notice that, even in Armstrong's recordings, if I slow it down I hear things I hadn't noticed - balance, symmetry, resolutions, twists and turns at a microscopic level, that somehow end up where they are supposed to.

BTW, I listened to a different recording of Barbecue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxGruxZVavM

Great stuff!

Ed
_________________________
http://edsjazzpianopage.blogspot.com/

My fingers are slow, but easily keep pace with my thoughts.


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#1405063 - 03/27/10 05:43 PM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: Riddler]
Riddler Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 615
Loc: Florida
I have always avoided transcribing because I assumed it would be painful, but I now find to my great surprise that it can be great fun. For me, the secret is to pick really great solos which you like to listen to (Dave has picked some winners for us) and to avoid notating.

What I'm doing with the Louis Armstrong recordings after I know the solo by heart (from singing along) is to record it on my computer in midi (by playing it on my piano keyboard), then playing it back at the right tempo and key, using a trumpet patch.

So here is my version of Louis Armstrong's solo on Got No Blues:

http://www.box.net/shared/i3xnu4nln6

Of course, there is a lot of expression in horn solos that you can't play on the piano or capture in midi, but hey, no way am I going to try to take up the trumpet!

Ed
_________________________
http://edsjazzpianopage.blogspot.com/

My fingers are slow, but easily keep pace with my thoughts.


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#1405074 - 03/27/10 06:14 PM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: Riddler]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2995
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
awesome!
Isn't it fun?

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#1405167 - 03/27/10 09:35 PM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: knotty]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2303
Loc: Sydney
I ordered JOI because Riddler did and I didn't want to be left out !
You have to put in the effort but it's worth it. I'm on Week 1 and have seen tangible benefits already.
1. I have a better feeling for swing which is my weakness.
2. I previously thought I wasn't good enough to do transcribing but the JazzHanons force you to start. I've discovered that I'm actually good at the JazzHannons.
3. My strength is harmony and my ear has picked up on nice patterns within and between chords.

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#1405170 - 03/27/10 09:42 PM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: davefrank]
ronmon Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 18
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
I'm thinking about buying these books. About how far along should you be in your piano studies in order to start and get something out of it?? Thanks!
_________________________
Ron

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#1405189 - 03/27/10 10:22 PM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: ronmon]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2995
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Ronmon,

I really don't think you need much background at all. The only thing you need is to keep at it, like any other method really. Just stick to it.
Basic note reading will help. Basic understanding of chord will help too, but you can get that knowledge easily for free.
You can take it at your own pace, there's no set tempo on how to play the hanons or tunes for example. Just find what's challenging.

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#1405196 - 03/27/10 10:39 PM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: knotty]
ronmon Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 18
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Knotty:

Right on!! Thanks a lot. I'm going to pick up this course and get started immediately. Can't tell you how pumped up I am to get back to playing some great jazz music. This forum has truly been awesome/inspiring!! Thanks again.

Ron
_________________________
Ron

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#1405230 - 03/27/10 11:37 PM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: ronmon]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2303
Loc: Sydney
Great stuff Ron, you won't regret

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#1405631 - 03/28/10 03:40 PM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: custard apple]
saiman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 125
I can't say exactly whether its helped my improvising but I'm really brushing up my sight reading and left hand chording. Its awesome for that. Only problem I have is locating the armstrong recordings. Where can you get them? Singing with the pro's is the only part of the method which I still need to get into. The other day I tried to sing some of joe sample's solos but I have trouble memorizing the lines in my head

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#1405885 - 03/28/10 10:52 PM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: saiman]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2303
Loc: Sydney
Hi Saiman, I'm getting the Louis Armstrong ones from you-tube.
You wouldn't believe it but I don't own any Armstrong albums. But I am soon going to invest. I didn't know how awesome trad jazz was until I started JOI.
I sing for 15 minutes a day before I touch the piano. Don't miss out this step. As Dave said in the intro, it is the method for connecting the ear to your hands.

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#1406897 - 03/30/10 07:02 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: custard apple]
PaulMac Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/29/09
Posts: 26
Loc: United Kingdom
Can someone give me a link to this method please?

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#1406956 - 03/30/10 09:25 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: PaulMac]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2995
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)

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#1407523 - 03/31/10 12:08 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: knotty]
PaulMac Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/29/09
Posts: 26
Loc: United Kingdom
Thanks, I have it on order.

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#1407574 - 03/31/10 04:03 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: PaulMac]
saiman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 125
hi guys. i got myself a Louis Armstrong CD. Its called Ken Burns Jazz Series: Louis Armstrong. I know its not the same recordings as recommended in Joy but I guess its better than nothing. The first song is called Chimes Blues. It has a nice solo in it which does not seem too complicated. However, Im still finding it hard to keep memorizing and singing the exact lines. Whats the best method of getting a solo into your ear?

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#1407694 - 03/31/10 09:56 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: saiman]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2995
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Saiman,

the way I do it:

I learn one phrase at a time. Louis doesn't have 16 bar lines, it's mostly 2-3 bars before you get a rest. So it's easy for me to split that way.
I play each phrase on the keyboard at the same time, it helps me narrow down on the exact pitch being played, and I can sing it slow and make sure I got it.
Each phrase would typically take me 5 to 10 minutes, repeating it as needed, maybe 30 times.
After I've done each phrase by itself, I go back to the beginning and do 2 phrases at a time.
Then 4.
Then usually the whole chorus.
I do this over a period of 2 weeks, when I have time.

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#1408470 - 04/01/10 10:10 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: knotty]
saiman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 125
thanks knotty. you always a great help

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#1408580 - 04/01/10 01:00 PM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: saiman]
Bonita Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1
Does anyone know of any software available that can transcribe a piece of piano music from an Mp3 file and create the sheet music for it? Thanks!

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#1408586 - 04/01/10 01:12 PM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: Bonita]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2995
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
look at Melodyne. It's supposed to do it.
from their website:

----
The New Power of Melodyne

Melodyne editor is the first Celemony product to offer the revolutionary Direct Note Access technology. This makes possible what had previously been considered impossible: access to individual notes in polyphonic audio material. Correct wrong notes in a piano recording; change the chords in a guitar accompaniment after the recording is over; refashion a sample lick. Melodyne editor lets you do things of which, until now, you could only dream. -

-------

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#1412612 - 04/06/10 10:55 PM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: davefrank]
ronmon Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 18
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Anybody know if my analysis of Leaf Line is correct? See below:

Bars 1-3 = II,V,I in B flat Major

Bars 4-8 = I, II of III, V of III, III in E flat Major

Bars 9-11 = II, V, I in B flat Major

Bars 12-20 = I, II of III, V of III, III, III, II of III, V of III, III, III in E flat Major

Bars 21-23 = II, II, V, I in B flat Major

Bars 24-27 = I, II of III, V of III, III in E flat Major

Bars 28-32 = II, V, I, V of III, V of III, III,III in E flat Major

I wasn't sure how to classify the suspended fourth chord so I labeled it as a V of III.

Thoughts??
_________________________
Ron

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#1412635 - 04/06/10 11:35 PM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: davefrank]
ronmon Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 18
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Follow on...Before I get into playing the various peices in the book, I want to analyze the tunes and then take a look at the Solo Pattern to figure out what scales are being utilized within it. I guess I like to know the "why" of what I am doing so it cements itself in my noggin!! I don't know if anyone is using this approach along with the lesson plan in the book, but it helps me tremendously.
_________________________
Ron

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#1412698 - 04/07/10 02:42 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: ronmon]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2303
Loc: Sydney
Hey Ron
Thanks for your interesting post. I don't think of the JOI tunes in terms of chord progressions/ scales. But I think I need to do so, in addition to my big picture approach.
I think of the jazz tune Leaf Line as
Bars 1 to 8: Theme A
Bars 9 to 16: Theme A repeated
Bars 17 to 24: Theme B, bars 21 & 22 build to climax
Bars 25 to 32: Theme A varied

I think improv is made up of both understanding the melodic idea (my approach) and understanding the harmonic structure (your approach).

For the sus chord I think of it as a beautiful chilled passing note which requires resolution. In Leaf Line, it's extra nice because the D7sus moves to a kind of tension note, the dominant 7, before moving to the home note G min/Bb maj.

Knotty et al: How do you approach the Jazz tune and the Blues tune ?

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#1412728 - 04/07/10 03:58 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: custard apple]
saiman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 125
hi ronmon. To be hundred percent correct the tune plays around in 2 keys, Bbmaj and Gmin. The chord changes are the same as Autumn leaves. For example

Theme A:

Cmin7, F7, Bmaj7, Ebmaj7 (2,5,1,4 in Bb)

Amin7b5, D7b9, Gmin6 (2,5,1 in Gminor)

The Gmin6 is stretches over 2 bars but what most people to is that they turn it into a dominant chord in the second bar so that it leads back to the Cmin7 for Theme A repeated.

Hope this helps.

In terms of the improv, I am a total beginner at Jazz but I think the point is not to overanalyse the tunes but to focus on phrasing and develop you inner ear by singing and playing. In my opinion Joy of Improv is an approach that focuses on immersing yourself into the music rather than analyzing and deconstructing it.

Maybe Dave can also shed some light here smile

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#1412732 - 04/07/10 04:04 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: saiman]
saiman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 125
i don't know what you man by the suspended chord but I think the part you talking about is some form of

Gmin7C7b9|Fmin7 B7b9| progression as you find it in the Autumn leaves (Bb) bridge (on the word "darling". After that it goes back to Eb, then a diminished chord and then back to the chorus.

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#1412750 - 04/07/10 05:28 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: saiman]
davefrank Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 672
in terms of the tune analyzation, Saiman wins the prize! (A year's worth of canned ham:)Each of the JOI jazz tunes is based directly on a standard. Leaf Line is Autumn Leaves, the key centers moving mostly between Bb Maj and G min, with a few bars of Eb towards the end.

In Book 2 there is a section called Basic Chord Progressions which explains this subject of tune analysis in detail. Ultimately it is really important to understand how the standards are basically made up of sequences of basic progressions.

It's never a problem if you want to analyze the chord structure when you tackle one of the JOI tunes, but Saiman is right that at the beginning immersion in the music is the basic focus; the theory knowledge can come sooner or later based on your interest in the subject. Definately by Book 2 you want to get into the subject, earlier if you can't sleep nights because you're trying to figure out why the C7 in bar 12 has a #11...

Watch out, my fellow tune detectives, some of the titles are double-puns instead of single puns (Froggy Day is Someday my prince will come:)

Blessings and keep swingin

Dave Frank

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#1412754 - 04/07/10 05:34 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: davefrank]
saiman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 125
thanks so much adding meat to this threat Dave. Let all keep sharing our experiences with this method and maybe even start posting some recordings. As soon as I have all the technical aspects sorted out Ill upload some stuff smile

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#1412777 - 04/07/10 07:44 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: davefrank]
ronmon Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 18
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Wow...I was way off on this one...lol. Thanks for setting me straight guys. I was so stoked to get after this material I guess I didn't really listen to the song and the changes before setting out on my "little adventure" in chord theory!!!

Great to have people out there that can help and are working through some of the same things. Probably just need to get out of my own way and just play!!

Thanks again everyone...gotta go to work for now!

Have a great day!
_________________________
Ron

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#1412793 - 04/07/10 09:17 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: ronmon]
davefrank Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 672
if you guys would like, if there's some way to hook up in a conference video call sometime (I haven't done that one yet but I'm sure there's a way to do it), we can all meet in cyberspace for a free group Joy of Improv party. That would be fun.


DF

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#1412802 - 04/07/10 09:30 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: davefrank]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2303
Loc: Sydney
Thank you Saiman and Dave. After your posts, I'm going to look at Autumn Leaves tomorrow.
I NEVER would have guessed the double pun for A Froggy Day. I'm going to bed now but when I get up, I'm going to go through the titles and see which ones I can work out.

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#1482610 - 07/27/10 05:23 PM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: custard apple]
flat13sharp11 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 119
Loc: Lancashire, UK
I'm trying to find a book that introduces you to improv. Is JOI a good place to start?

I was considering the Ligon books but maybe think that they'll be a bit too intensive for now. I have just been learning standard arrangements lately but want to start improvising, but it's knowing where to start!!

Thanks
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/timwood1987

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#1482796 - 07/27/10 09:53 PM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: flat13sharp11]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2303
Loc: Sydney
Hi b13 #11
You just can’t go wrong with JOI. I’m on Lesson 11. It will help you think melodically which is fundamental for composition/ improvisation. You will increase your jazz vocab through singing the JOI tunes composed by Dave Frank, Lester Young tunes, John Coltrane tunes etc.
You will learn cool jazz voicings in a fun way – in the context of songs. And develop the chops to execute by doing jazz Hanons.
Needless to say all the rhythm has swing !
If you look at the you-tube web-site for Knotty who has just finished the JOI course, he does all this awesome Charlie Parker stuff.

Further to the previous comments of jazzwee and Knotty, a great performer has articulated a technique and made it very “accessible”.

Let me know if you have any more questions

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#1483025 - 07/28/10 08:10 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: custard apple]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2995
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Hey b13,

JOI is a method that is intended to give you the foundations needed to improvise. I am not aware of any other method like this, with exercises given to you daily. I have completed both volumes in about 2 years.

It is best supplemented by lessons from Dave himself, who teaches around the world via Skype. If you're interested, send him an email. Dave's not only one of the best pianists today, he is a master jazz educator.
With his help, you will dig into improvisation at the pace that's right for you. The 2 books do not have any particular improvisation exercises, but we use them to create exercises. For example, we compose solos, which is very helpful in improvisation.
The path to improvising on any tune is well defined, the secret is in building blocks one at a time.

If you were a complete beginner in improvisation, you may just start with a Major 2-5-1 for a week, then a minor 2-5-1 for a week.
Then improvise over other short progressions, until you finally start improvising on Autumn leaves for example, and then other simple tunes.
Every time, you'd get feedback on what you need to correct.
At first, scales and chords are chosen for you, so you need only focus on the foundation. You play slow to ensure you are in control. Once that is master, you add more ingredients to the recipe.

Custard apple started a thread on JOI :
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1421126/1.html

you can take a quick look. The method in meant to be a balance of technique, theory and ear development. But even the technique exercises are fun.

Take care

(cus, thanks for the mention wink )


Edited by knotty (07/28/10 09:34 AM)

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#2067493 - 04/20/13 07:52 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: saiman]
Jean-Luc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 322
Loc: France
Hello, I posted my question in the beginner forum, but maybe more chances to have someone bale to answer me here smile

I just received my copy of Joy of Improv today from Amazon (volume 2, volume 1 should arrive on Monday) and I was surprised to see it arrive without CD (the box was perfect, no way it went missing during the travel) so I was wondering if it has to be purchased separately ? And if so, where ? (I live in Europe, and for me, Amazon was more or less the only option possible.
I will work alone (my teacher is REALLY not a jazz person (I live in a very small town, so no other option), so, the CD is kind of important :((
Thank you in advance for any information smile
_________________________
- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc

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#2067786 - 04/20/13 08:46 PM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: saiman]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2303
Loc: Sydney
Coucou Jean-Luc
My understanding is that the book should come with the CD attached on the back page.
It's a pity your book did not include the CD. The CD will be your best friend in getting you used to the swing feel of jazz.

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#2067873 - 04/21/13 05:31 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: saiman]
Jean-Luc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 322
Loc: France
Hallo Custard Apple,

I sent a message to Dave to see if he can help, maybe provide me with a link to download the CD if I provide him with the proof I actually bought the books. It is a brand new copy purchased from Amazon at a regular price so I do not understand why there was no CD. Amazon offered me to send back the books and get a refund, but that's not what I want, it took quiet a while for them to arrive and now I just want to use them smile It's not the first time I have this kind of issue with Amazon, but usually it's because you have a version with and without CD, here, according to Hal Leonard site, there is only a "with CD" version. It's most certainly not to be an annoying person, but I will be working without teacher (my teacher is not a Jazz person at all and I have no other choice in my tiny little place), so, as you said, the CD will be a must. I just felt very bad bugging Dave, he is already very generous of his time with the free videos he posts, it didn't feel right to annoy him with that kind of problems smile
(I just checked the cover of the book and no trace of glue at all, so I guess, at least on this one no CD, I should get book one tomorrow, I hope at least this one will have the CD, maybe they just remove them from the copy they send to Europe, don't know :()


Edited by Jean-Luc (04/21/13 05:33 AM)
_________________________
- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc

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#2067910 - 04/21/13 07:57 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: saiman]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2303
Loc: Sydney
Hey Jean Luc
So you're keen to start but amazon US takes a long time to ship to far flung destinations.
Did you see this Lesson 1 on Dave's web-site ?
Today you can start on Exercise 3 the voicings, you don't need the CD for that.

http://www.davefrankjazz.com/books_vid/binder.pdf

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#2067915 - 04/21/13 08:18 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: saiman]
casinitaly Online   blank

Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 5131
Loc: Italy
I've found Amazon to be pretty good when dealing with problems of any sort.

I mostly deal with Amazon.co.uk (because Amazon.it doesn't have most of the stuff that interests me!) and given the identical format of all the Amazon sites I've even been comfortable with using the French or German sites.

I try to avoid shipping costs and almost never order from Amazon.com for shipments overseas.

It is also interesting to note that the prices vary quite a bit from site to site (even taking into consideration any currency exchange rates, Italy is ALWAYS a lot more expensive..hence my ordering from the UK... I just make sure I am ordering enough to qualify for free shipping!)
_________________________
XVIII-XXXIV
Everything's too hard until you make it easy. Follow your teacher's instructions and practice wisely/much, and you'll soon wonder how you ever found it hard ;)-BobPickle
Performance anxiety: make it part of your daily routine and deal with it...Cope! zrtf90

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#2067917 - 04/21/13 08:20 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: saiman]
Jean-Luc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 322
Loc: France
Thank you Custard Apple smile Book one should arrive tomorrow (according to the tracking information) and maybe this one will have a CD. Anyway, I know it will be a very long journey (I started with the Piano last September, so each lesson - if I am able to do them - will take me probably more than two weeks). But luckily for me, I really like the music theory side of things so I hope it will help a bit, at least with the understanding. Jazz (and Bach) is the reason why I learn piano and even if I realize it's probably not an accessible one (especially without a good teacher), I will try smile
_________________________
- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc

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#2067924 - 04/21/13 08:40 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: saiman]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2303
Loc: Sydney
You're welcome Jean-Luc.
More than 2 weeks per lesson is fine.
Bach is awesome, I hope you will keep up Bach.

Yes I agree that JOI is best done with a jazz teacher.
If you like, you can post your recordings. I recorded everything so that Knotty could guide me through JOI.

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#2068470 - 04/22/13 05:15 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: saiman]
Jean-Luc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 322
Loc: France
The good news for me, is the fact that today I received book one of Joy of Improv and this one came with the CD attached to the cover :):):). So I will be able to start and maybe next time Dave visit the forum he will see my message and be able to help me (or give the green light to the nice member who offered me to help).
In the mean time, I started following Dave's "Beginning Improvisation using Modal Vamps w/Dave Frank" and I really, but I mean REALLY enjoy it :), it is very simple, but it's a first step, and it's really enjoyable.
@ casinitaly : In fact, Amazon offered me to return the book and refund me, which is not exactly what I want, I definitively want to keep it smile
@ Custard Apple : I think, it might probably be more than two weeks for each lesson, at least at the beginning. I will also keep up Bach, in fact, I can't remain a day without listening at least a few minutes to something by him, so I guess I have no choice smile.
This is a nice about the recordings, I will try to post when I get going, and if it's not too much bother I will surely appreciate the feedback.
_________________________
- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc

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#2068488 - 04/22/13 07:07 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: saiman]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2303
Loc: Sydney
Hey Jean-Luc
I'm pleased Book 1 has arrived with the CD.
Enjoy ! And that means not rushing through the lessons, some people take one month per lesson which is fine.

Another thing is that Dave plays at 120 bpm. Don't feel you have to play anywhere near that speed. JOI is to get your ears used to the jazz vocabulary, if that means playing at 72 bpm, that is fine too.

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#2085110 - 05/19/13 08:23 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: saiman]
saiman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 125
Hi Jean-luc good luck with starting joy of improv. I'm almost through the second book. Unfortunately I still have a long way to go to learning now to improvise but you making a good start...

@custard it's so awesome to see how you have progresses. Very inspiring to me. I have a lot to catch up

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#2085543 - 05/20/13 02:49 AM Re: any JOY of Improvisation students? [Re: saiman]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2303
Loc: Sydney
Hey saiman
Very nice to hear from you and congrats for nearly finishing. Yup it is a long course.

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