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Hi all,

I've recently became very interested in getting a Steinway, but I don't really know too much about them. I've spent some time playing on a few and I've been impressed by their tone and touch. Obviously a B is out of the question, but what would be your opinions of the smaller size models, and what would be the best year range to get? I've seen many for sale in the pre-depression years, but do they typically need too much work to make it worthwhile. When did the action finally evolve into what we'd call the "modern action"? And were there any important changes in design along the way that I'd need to look out for, either bad or good?

All of the above being said, I haven't ruled out an M&H or anything similar so I'm still considering something like an AA.

Thanks,
James

The best Steinway to look for is the one that most excites you when you play it. If two sound the same to you, go for the cheaper one.

If you are looking for vintage S&S, if you can find a "long A' (6'4") that is in great shape or well-restored (have it inspected) they can be really wonderful!

+1 sophial,

If you are falling short of a B, that AIII "long scale" is the one to be patient for and find restored properly.

The Steinway AIII, Grotrian 192, and Schimmel 189 NWS are my three favorite pianos in that size range probably in that order.

Maybe look for a 1927.

That was a pretty good year for New York as I recall.

I think a pre WW1 short A, 6'2" would be my vintage preference. I think the overall design is a bit more balanced and musical then the long A. I also feel the overall excellence in execution was at an all-time high during this era.

I would love to hear a long A done by piano works in Atlanta though. I played a 1918 M&H model A they had rebuilt that was simply magnificent.

James -

As far as Steinways go - avoid anything built between 1962 and 1981 when they were using the teflon bushings.

Avoid Mason and Hamlins built between 1930 and 1995.

In general, newer is better.

Carey

I'm not in the market for a Steinway, but the above comment (in bold) interested me. Does this apply to both US and Hamburg Steinways ?

Thank you Alex,

We're about to start on a pre-WWI short A for a customer and we have high expectations for that piano.

The short A is more balanced, but then the other two pianos on my list have a lot of personality, perhaps more than balance. I think those pianos may be more fun for the pianist than for the audience, but this is pure opinion.

With a serious interest in Steinway, you really should test drive some nice Mason & Hamlin pianos. They are different, but my experience is that they appeal to so many of the same desires of customers smitten with Steinway. There are other wonderful brands, but this thread will quickly get away from you if you go there.

Late model used & high level restorations from Steinway will generally be competitively priced in the same neighborhood. If it is not late model used, restored or new, you may want to re-examine why you choose to focus on Steinway.

I honestly don't know. However in the 2001 edition of The Piano Book Larry Fine states "If you are buying a used Steinway made between 1962 and 1981, you may not need to be as concerned with the presence of the Teflon bushings"..... "especially if your piano will be receiving only average use in the home. According to the technicians with extensive experience serving these pianos, there are usually few problems with these bushings after those that give trouble during the first few seasons are replaced."

Personally, if given a choice, I would simply avoid buying a Steinway from that era.

If you buy any piano more than 25 years old, condition becomes more of a factor than build quality. If you buy a rebuilt piano, or a piano for rebuilding, the quality of the rebuilder is more of a factor than the original build quality.

BDB hits the nail on the head.

I am not a subscriber to all the "golden era" nonsense about "good years" for Steinways. The best Steinway is the one that just rolled off the line today! If you can't afford the budget or space for a B look at the A or the M. Yes, there is a lot of talk about the lack of final preparation on new S&S. Yes, there is a lot of talk about consistancy issues. That has always been there. Steinway, like most progressive manufacturers, has continued to evolve their products.

IMHO, the only reason to consider a used rebuilt Steinway is price.

I think that my favorite piano that I have EVER played was actually an NY S&S model B from 1966. It had been rebuilt, by Steinway, so essentially it was brand new, and the Teflon was not reintegrated into the rebuild. I lost a lot of sleep over whether to pool several resources to buy it, and in the end, I didn’t have to think about it anymore because someone else bought it before me. I loved everything about it, even compared to the really new ones sitting right beside it.

All that to say, if one of the Teflon Steinways is rebuilt, the Teflon is probably gone. Just have a tech check it out.

Thank you all, these are great suggestions. I can't really quantify why I have an interest in them, I just do. My friend and former teacher has a 1915 A that is absolutely beautiful. Maybe that's why I like them. I grew up playing mostly his Steinway and a bunch of Yamahas in the shop that I worked in in high school (in the '80s). I've heard a lot of great things about the M&H, though, but haven't actually seen one in person. Phoenix seems to have a shortage of dealers (new or used).

I've seen several reputable rebuilders, some of which post here occasionally, and I'd be inclined to only deal with someone like that.

Bill Bremmer gave a great discertation on the whole "teflon" deal in a thread in the technicians forum last week and it explained a lot of things (I don't know how or I'd link it here). As I understand it can have problems in low RH, and since Phoenix is mostly dry dry dry dry dry, I think that it would be more of a problem here than in other places.

Ok, so I like the A, but what is the difference between that and the AII or the AIII, and would they be that much better than an M or O/L? What's the difference between the O and L? They both have the same size spec from what I can tell.

Thanks again for all of your replies,
James

Though I have had or have many many M,O or L(s) that are great, the AII at 6'1" /6'2" or the AIII at 6'4 1/2" is a physically bigger and longer piano so.... therefore has the potential to be a better piano.

In New York, the mdl. AII was first manufactured in 1897 and was discontinued in 1913, succeeded by the AIII in 1913. The AIII was manufactured till the late 30's and special order to the mid forties. In that the AII was discontinued in 1913 technically there is nothing one can salvage other than the case,harp and discretionary,the keyset. In other words in the end, a vintage AII (1897-1913) if remanufactured at a high level is only as good as the restoration or rebuild. One can't usually save the soundboard,bridges,ribs,damper action.pinblock etc.in a vintage AII.

Now in an AIII, it is possible to save some of the components(discretionary) such as the soundboard,bridges and ribs etc. n that,they were manufactured till 1945ish. Though the older ones (early teens)are in same condition as the AII.
Hamburg factory never manufactured the AIII. They always manufactured the AII even up till present whereas the NY factory now manufactures the 6'2" AII.

In that there were 3 different Steinway O's since their initiation they varied in size and scale since 1900. The earliest one had a straight bass bridge with no duplex bars. The later scale in the early 1900's had a curved bass bridge with no duplex bars. The present scale as of today has the curved bass bridge with duplex bars.
The O is round tailed. The L is square tailed like the newer AII,AIII,B,C and D.

You should do a search in the Piano-Tech forum of the Steinway O and L in that Larry B. did an accurate assessment on the sound variable difference between the two which I agreed with
The bass string scale is the same as for the L and latest O scale.

I could rattle on pages on end though the real difference is the finished end product. Finding that extrodinary rebuilding operation and the piano itself is the task at hand.
Steinway is a hand made piano so... every one can be different.

James...here ya go

Link to Bill Bremmers' statement on Teflon Bushings
Another post within that thread.

This may be the post pianobroker is referencing Steinway Models

James -

I also live in Phoenix (dry, dry, dry). I have a 2003 Mason and Hamlin BB, and will send you a private message regarding who carries M&H's locally.

Carey

Is it simply not cost effective to replace the bushings? Or does it alter the piano's sound too much and is just not worth the trouble?

Roxy - My understanding is that replacing the Teflon bushings requires replacing the entire action.

1902 Steinway C anybody?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDrCAnihstc

Im slowing but surely falling in love with this...

or this... one of my (if not the) model and age of Steinway I dream of!

1877 Steinway D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHs4SdJXj7g&feature=related