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#1385906 - 03/01/10 07:57 PM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9057
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
dewster, may I suggest that you devise a way to score each test in an objective fashion? For example, ten categories (stretching, looping, layer switching etc.) each assessed from 1 to 10, then a total percentage score.

Just an idea.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1385917 - 03/01/10 08:08 PM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: Kawai James]
kiedysktos. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 425
Loc: Europe, Poland
And everything in one place, it's hard to go through all the pages smile
_________________________
Roland FP-4

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#1385923 - 03/01/10 08:22 PM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4340
Loc: Northern NJ
Thanks to sandord over at http://forums.rolandclan.com we now have a DPBSD sample of the Roland K-RD700GX1 SuperNATURAL Piano Expansion card installed in a RD-700GX!

It tests pretty much the same as the Roland HP-307, which is good news. Again, many of the extra sounds like key up and pedal down aren't present in the DPBSD MP3 file for some reason.

Even though the file name indicates no sympathetic resonance, I do see and hear something like it in the DPBSD file. I assume it is the in-line effect built-in to the RD-700GX, which appears sophisticated as it has many parameters available to adjust.

---------------------------------------------
- Roland RD-700GX with K-RD700GX1 expansion -
---------------------------------------------
FILE & SETUP:
- dp_bsd_v1.4_Roland_RD-700GX_K-RD700GX1_SuperNATURAL-Grand_Piano_no_sympres.mp3
PROS:
- Beautiful long natural-sounding note decay (decay times on the order of Pianoteq).
- Large dynamic range (~47dB, vel=1:127).
- No audible looping.
- Visually, the notes look similar to conventional length attack samples seamlessly blended with something like long loop samples. Not clear what the process is.
- No visible or audible stretching, notes look random in the wave and phase views.
- No visible or audible velocity switching.
- Very smoothly blended timbre variation with velocity.
- Responds to partial pedaling, centerpoint of this effect is with pedal mostly down.
- Pedal up sounds like realistic string damping rather than a knock.
- Sympathetic resonance (in-line effect?).
CONS:
- Can't detect key up or pedal down sounds in DPBSD MP3 file for some reason.
OTHER:
- Probably good enough to realistically record solo.
- MP3 levels: peak @ -3dB, noise floor @ -81dB.
- Some gated digital bleed-thru at the noise floor that comes and goes (PC?).
- Date reviewed: 2010-03-01.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1385926 - 03/01/10 08:26 PM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster]
bkmz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 142
Loc: Belarus
Originally Posted By: dewster
In the "prices paid" thread someone bought one for $2390 USD in Minsk, Belarus.


It was me smile
Thanks very much Dewster. A few comments:
I can't say sample set is "smoothly blended" - actually layer switches are VERY audible and very annoying.
The damper resonance is not so unpleasant and fake to me, I like it, but it's a matter of taste.
I'm shocked about how short the samples are.
It would be very interesting to compare 330 with other models - 340/370/380.

And resulting sound is not so bad - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnzlmqJYVao but.. some things are annoying. 3 layers is too small and layer switching is too audible.
As I said, I'm planning to replace it, possibly with HP-307.
_________________________
ex-Yamaha CLP 330

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#1385927 - 03/01/10 08:27 PM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: kiedysktos.]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4340
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: kiedysktos.
And everything in one place, it's hard to go through all the pages smile

Everything here in terms of MP3s, pictures, and text in Courier font is at MediaFire.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1385941 - 03/01/10 08:51 PM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: bkmz]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4340
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: bkmz
It was me smile

Oops!

Originally Posted By: bkmz
Thanks very much Dewster. A few comments:
I can't say sample set is "smoothly blended" - actually layer switches are VERY audible and very annoying.

Hmm. Here is the frequency view of the layer test:



It does kind of look like the high frequency content levels off, then increases somewhat quickly. But after I make all the notes the same volume and listen to it it doesn't sound abrupt or anything.

Originally Posted By: bkmz
The damper resonance is not so unpleasant and fake to me, I like it, but it's a matter of taste.

Perhaps it sounds better from the built-in speakers?

Originally Posted By: bkmz
I'm shocked about how short the samples are.

Yes, rather short by DP standards, I was somewhat shocked myself. I kind of expected more with the Clavinova line. My wife played on one many years ago and really liked it.

Originally Posted By: bkmz
It would be very interesting to compare 330 with other models - 340/370/380.

If someone sends me an MP3 and I'll definitely do so.

Originally Posted By: bkmz
As I said, I'm planning to replace it, possibly with HP-307.

Whatever you replace it with, I would be interested to know what you like or dislike about it compared to the CLP330.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1385965 - 03/01/10 09:17 PM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4340
Loc: Northern NJ
Roland HP-307 vs K-RD700GX1 Visual Comparison

Just how similar are the SuperNATURAL pianos in the Roland HP-307 and the K-RD700GX1 Piano Expansion card installed in a RD-700GX? Here are some pix where we can look for similar "fingerprints" in the sound. In all views, the HP-307 is on the top, K-RD700GX1 on the bottom.



Spectral phase view of the note C2.



Spectral pan view of the note C3.



Spectral pan view of the note C4.



Spectral pan view the layer test.



Spectral phase view the stretch test.

They look and sound similar enough to assume that they are most likely the same sample sets. Those who are interested should download the MP3 files and compare them.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1385968 - 03/01/10 09:20 PM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: Kawai James]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4340
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: KAWAI James
dewster, may I suggest that you devise a way to score each test in an objective fashion? For example, ten categories (stretching, looping, layer switching etc.) each assessed from 1 to 10, then a total percentage score.

I'd love to do that. But I really don't know how to go about assigning 1-10 type numbers to most of those things.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1385974 - 03/01/10 09:32 PM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9057
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
dewster, do you believe the MP3 compression could significantly affect the appearance of these graphs?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1386093 - 03/02/10 12:27 AM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: Kawai James]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4340
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: KAWAI James
dewster, do you believe the MP3 compression could significantly affect the appearance of these graphs?

No, both kawaian and I looked into that and didn't see anything substantially different between the wave and MP3 spectral views. Here is a link to that post.

It really makes sense that spectral phase and pan aren't affected much by the compression - you can't play with phase very much without disturbing the stereo image.

The files are in the archive if you want to play with them and see for yourself.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1386117 - 03/02/10 01:25 AM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9057
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Okay, I see.

Originally Posted By: dewster
The files are in the archive if you want to play with them and see for yourself.


Thank you, but I shall trust your better judgement.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1386224 - 03/02/10 05:52 AM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: bkmz


Thanks very much to to bkmz, we now have a review of the Yamaha CLP-330, which is a Clavinova introduced in 2008. In the "prices paid" thread someone bought one for $2390 USD in Minsk, Belarus.

There are two files at the share point, one with the default sympathetic resonance, and another with it turned up to the max. I think the effect is typical for Yamaha i.e. rather poor - I don't like the default value, and turned up I find it obnoxious.

The sample lengths are fairly short, and the upper note loop lengths are way too short, you can hear the resonance repeating like an echo.

It's also stretched a bit more than I would expect for an instrument this new and of this caliber. I could actually hear the upper stretching, which is rather unusual in my experience.

During the layer tests the notes are very damped sounding. The MIDI file plays one note repeatedly, with one event right after the next, so perhaps the CLP-330 is confused as to what to do with conflicting note on/off commands. Something I should perhaps fix in the next version of the test file.

On the plus side, the layers are smoothly blended.

------------------
- Yamaha CLP-330 -
------------------
FILE & SETUP:
- dp_bsd_v1.4_yamaha_clp330_dr5.mp3 (sympathetic damper resonance set to default of 5)
- dp_bsd_v1.4_yamaha_clp330_max_res.mp3 (sympathetic damper resonance set to max)
- USB Flash drive (MIDI file), headphone out, Audiophile 2496, SAWStudio.
PROS:
- Huge dynamic range (~62dB, vel=1:127).
- A smoothly blended multi-layer sample set (Yamaha reports 3 layers).
- Something like layer switches barely visible @ vel=72,90 (spectral phase view).
- Responds to partial pedaling.
- Sympathetic resonance.
CONS:
- Note decay rate is somewhat fast, particularly the higher notes (~3/4 to 1/3 Pianoteq, lo to hi).
- Obviously looped.
- C8 & C9 loops too short, piano resonance sounds like quick repeated echos.
- Sample lengths are (C2:C9): 2.2,1.9,1.9,0.8,1.3,0.8,0.6 seconds.
- Loop lengthes are (C2:C9): 1.0,0.8,0.5,0.3,0.2,0.2,0.15 seconds.
- Obviously stretched, most group transitions fairly audible, even the higher ones.
- Stretch distances: 3,3,4,4,4,2,4,3,3,3,2,3,3,3,2,2,2,2,3,1,3,3,4,2,2,3,5,4,3,3 = 30 groups.
- Sympathetic resonance is unpleasant - echoy, reverby, resonant, fake.
- No obvious pedal up/down or key up samples.
OTHER:
- Notes oddly damped during the velocity layer test.
- MP3 levels: peak @ -1dB, noise floor @ -80dB.
- Date reviewed: 2010-03-01


I'm a little bit puzzled...
I'm sorry to say this, but CLP-330 does not have any kind of damper oder sympathetic resonance: Damper resonance is introduced in CLP-340, whereas string resonance is introduced in CLP-380 which is the top of the line Yamaha CLP DP. Are we talking about the same model? This needs to be fixed so the comparison here keeps to be reliable...

confused
_________________________
<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>

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#1386229 - 03/02/10 06:05 AM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: mucci]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: kawaian
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: bkmz


Thanks very much to to bkmz, we now have a review of the Yamaha CLP-330, which is a Clavinova introduced in 2008. In the "prices paid" thread someone bought one for $2390 USD in Minsk, Belarus.

There are two files at the share point, one with the default sympathetic resonance, and another with it turned up to the max. I think the effect is typical for Yamaha i.e. rather poor - I don't like the default value, and turned up I find it obnoxious.

The sample lengths are fairly short, and the upper note loop lengths are way too short, you can hear the resonance repeating like an echo.

It's also stretched a bit more than I would expect for an instrument this new and of this caliber. I could actually hear the upper stretching, which is rather unusual in my experience.

During the layer tests the notes are very damped sounding. The MIDI file plays one note repeatedly, with one event right after the next, so perhaps the CLP-330 is confused as to what to do with conflicting note on/off commands. Something I should perhaps fix in the next version of the test file.

On the plus side, the layers are smoothly blended.

------------------
- Yamaha CLP-330 -
------------------
FILE & SETUP:
- dp_bsd_v1.4_yamaha_clp330_dr5.mp3 (sympathetic damper resonance set to default of 5)
- dp_bsd_v1.4_yamaha_clp330_max_res.mp3 (sympathetic damper resonance set to max)
- USB Flash drive (MIDI file), headphone out, Audiophile 2496, SAWStudio.
PROS:
- Huge dynamic range (~62dB, vel=1:127).
- A smoothly blended multi-layer sample set (Yamaha reports 3 layers).
- Something like layer switches barely visible @ vel=72,90 (spectral phase view).
- Responds to partial pedaling.
- Sympathetic resonance.
CONS:
- Note decay rate is somewhat fast, particularly the higher notes (~3/4 to 1/3 Pianoteq, lo to hi).
- Obviously looped.
- C8 & C9 loops too short, piano resonance sounds like quick repeated echos.
- Sample lengths are (C2:C9): 2.2,1.9,1.9,0.8,1.3,0.8,0.6 seconds.
- Loop lengthes are (C2:C9): 1.0,0.8,0.5,0.3,0.2,0.2,0.15 seconds.
- Obviously stretched, most group transitions fairly audible, even the higher ones.
- Stretch distances: 3,3,4,4,4,2,4,3,3,3,2,3,3,3,2,2,2,2,3,1,3,3,4,2,2,3,5,4,3,3 = 30 groups.
- Sympathetic resonance is unpleasant - echoy, reverby, resonant, fake.
- No obvious pedal up/down or key up samples.
OTHER:
- Notes oddly damped during the velocity layer test.
- MP3 levels: peak @ -1dB, noise floor @ -80dB.
- Date reviewed: 2010-03-01


I'm a little bit puzzled...
I'm sorry to say this, but CLP-330 does not have any kind of damper oder sympathetic resonance: Damper resonance is introduced in CLP-340, whereas string resonance is introduced in CLP-380 which is the top of the line Yamaha CLP DP. Are we talking about the same model? This needs to be fixed so the comparison here keeps to be reliable...

confused


+1

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#1386233 - 03/02/10 06:19 AM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: theJourney]
bkmz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 142
Loc: Belarus
it definitely has damper resonance
_________________________
ex-Yamaha CLP 330

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#1386237 - 03/02/10 06:32 AM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: bkmz]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
Originally Posted By: bkmz
it definitely has damper resonance


Then it's not a Yamaha CLP-330. It looks like a CLP-340.


Edited by kawaian (03/02/10 08:16 AM)
_________________________
<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>

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#1386251 - 03/02/10 06:59 AM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: mucci]
bkmz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 142
Loc: Belarus
Kawaian, are you kidding? I made this photo by myself!

Ok, here is Yamaha site (press 'Specifications'):

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/Cont...amp;CTID=203500
Effects
Damper Resonance YES
_________________________
ex-Yamaha CLP 330

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#1386268 - 03/02/10 07:49 AM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: bkmz]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
The string resonance is limited to the CLP-380 top of the line model.
If dewster reports that he is hearing it, then the question is what in fact he is hearing/seeing...or what Yamaha is letting people pay extra for on the very high priced CLP-380...

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#1386272 - 03/02/10 07:56 AM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: bkmz]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
Originally Posted By: bkmz
Kawaian, are you kidding? I made this photo by myself!

Ok, here is Yamaha site (press 'Specifications'):

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/Cont...amp;CTID=203500
Effects
Damper Resonance YES


The US website of Yamaha ist extremely misleading in this respect! They should correct this immediately! If you have a closer look you see that it states the following on the CLP-330 site:

"All the subtle capabilities of a grand piano
Key-Off samples provide the delicate sound keys make when they are released. Stereo Sustain samples recreate the resonances of strings and soundboard when the damper pedal is pressed. String Resonance samples provided the rich tones produced when one hammered string causes related strings to ring out in harmony. Using these comprehensive gradations, CLP300 Series models can realistically reproduce the complex sounds of a grand piano.
* Key-Off and Stereo Sustain: CLP380, CLP370, CLP340. String Resonance: CLP380."

This is of course extremely misleading, because it raves about all the features of the piano and then, at the very end, states that it's not included...

Shame on you, Yamaha US!
_________________________
<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>

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#1386282 - 03/02/10 08:21 AM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: mucci]
bkmz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 142
Loc: Belarus
People, I'm talking about the DAMPER RESONANCE, not STRING RESONANCE! DAMPER RESONANCE is present on CLP330, STRING RESONANCE is on CLP380 only.
_________________________
ex-Yamaha CLP 330

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#1386290 - 03/02/10 08:33 AM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: bkmz]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
Definitely not. Damper Resonance = Stereo Sustain Samples (on Yamahas Website). See my comment on my last post.
_________________________
<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>

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#1386299 - 03/02/10 08:47 AM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: mucci]
bkmz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 142
Loc: Belarus
noooo, SSS is another thing.... kawaian please stop it, i'm the owner of CLP330, i swear it does have damper resonance, you can clearly see the button on the picture above.
_________________________
ex-Yamaha CLP 330

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#1386307 - 03/02/10 08:56 AM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: bkmz]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
What does your piano do differently when the damper resonance light is on versus off?

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#1386315 - 03/02/10 09:11 AM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: theJourney]
bkmz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 142
Loc: Belarus
theJourney
It's not just on/off, it has 20 levels.
It sounds like some kind of resonance ) I don't know how to describe it, I will upload a sample later.
And honestly I don't know what the difference between "Damper Resonance" and "Stereo Sustain Samples", Yamaha descriptions are not very clear about that.
_________________________
ex-Yamaha CLP 330

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#1386330 - 03/02/10 09:31 AM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: bkmz]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
@bkmz, I guess I need to apologize! After reading a little bit more in the CLP-330/340/370 user manual it became clear that Damper resonance is applied to all of these models. Sorry for that misunderstanding!

But, in excuse to my misinterpretation, the Yamaha website is extremely uninformative about their model features. Furthermore I could not find any explanation on what the difference of damper resonance and Stereo sustain samples is...

So be it, nothing wrong with your MP3 contribution and dewsters analysis!


Edited by kawaian (03/02/10 09:31 AM)
_________________________
<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>

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#1386345 - 03/02/10 09:58 AM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: mucci]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
The question also becomes what then is "string resonance" on the CLP-380?

Does anyone have access to a 380 to give dewster a file?

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#1386346 - 03/02/10 10:02 AM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: theJourney]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
String resonance is the resonance of individual keys pressed down while you play other keys (all with pedal up). This will result in some harmonic or even disharmonic resonance depending on which key is pressed.

My KAWAI CA63 has both damper resonance and and string resonance.



Edited by kawaian (03/02/10 10:02 AM)
_________________________
<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>

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#1386410 - 03/02/10 11:36 AM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: mucci]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4340
Loc: Northern NJ
Sorry for the confusion. Is it me, or does it seem like different manufacturers call these things by different technical sounding names?

One of the main things I love about the sound of an acoustic piano is when the damper pedal down, and all of the strings are allowed to vibrate in sympathy with whatever other notes are being played. I've been calling that sympathetic resonance, but perhaps that's not the standard accepted term for the phenomena? I really like it but it is often done poorly, so I want to know about it, hence the DPBSD test for it.

I realize that there are damperless treble strings always sitting there doing whatever they want all the time, and I'm not sure what the accepted term for that is. And some people get rather excited about being able to silently press and hold some keys while playing others and having just those notes free to resonate - is there a consensus on what to call that? I don't test for these things specifically because I'm more interested in bulk pedal-down sympathetic resonance.

And then there is the sound of the dampers themselves going up and down with the damper pedal. I call these pedal up/down sounds.

If I'm doing something horribly wrong with my terminology, please let me know and I'll change it. I did try to clarify and explain these things in the readme file, perhaps I should change that section?

Here is a waveform (amplitude vs time) view of the sympathetic resonance test of the CLP-330, where the same notes are played twice, on the left the pedal is up, on the right the pedal is down:



Clearly visually and audibly something is definitely going on.

Here is an MP3 of the second and third phases of the sympathetic resonance test for the CLP-330, which corresponds exactly to the image above:

http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/clp330_res_5.mp3

Listen in particular to the last several seconds of the file. All of the rich piano sound devolves into a dull, single note buzz. This is why I tend to harp on Yamaha sympathetic resonance - it is generally a very poorly done delay effect.

This is a Clavinova too, so call me crazy but I kind of expect more from this premiere line.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#1386453 - 03/02/10 12:26 PM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: dewster]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
Originally Posted By: dewster
One of the main things I love about the sound of an acoustic piano is when the damper pedal down, and all of the strings are allowed to vibrate in sympathy with whatever other notes are being played. I've been calling that sympathetic resonance, but perhaps that's not the standard accepted term for the phenomena? I really like it but it is often done poorly, so I want to know about it, hence the DPBSD test for it.

I realize that there are damperless treble strings always sitting there doing whatever they want all the time, and I'm not sure what the accepted term for that is.


AFAIK that's damper resonance.

Originally Posted By: dewster
And some people get rather excited about being able to silently press and hold some keys while playing others and having just those notes free to resonate - is there a consensus on what to call that? I don't test for these things specifically because I'm more interested in bulk pedal-down sympathetic resonance.


AFAIK that's string resonance.

Originally Posted By: dewster

And then there is the sound of the dampers themselves going up and down with the damper pedal. I call these pedal up/down sounds.


agreed.

Additionally you also have key off samples (the subtle sound that occurs when you release a key and pedal is up).
_________________________
<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>

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#1386480 - 03/02/10 12:50 PM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: mucci]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
I agree with Dewster's terminology. Whether it is pedal down or just one note softly struck to lift the damper on that note I would call it all sympathetic resonance personally. If you think about it it amounts to exactly the same thing....ie, a string or strings with the damper lifted (whether by key strike or pedal press) and thus being free to vibrate in sympathy with played notes.

The DP makers, especially Yamaha, have made it unnecessarily complicated probably in order to increase the perceived added value to different instruments within the same range as per the Clavinova line.

Steve
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1386491 - 03/02/10 01:06 PM Re: The DP BSD Project! [Re: EssBrace]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
I would also agree, but pianomakers (not only Yamaha) have different expressions for this since they implement not all of these in all of their DP models.

e.g. Yamaha:

CLP-320 nothing...
CLP-330 damper resonance (as I learned today...)
CLP-340+370 damper resonance, Stereo sustain sample(what's that?), key-off sample
CLP-380 damper resonance, Stereo sustain sample(what's that?), key-off sample, string resonance
_________________________
<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>

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