Andy, I enjoy your playing and this song "The Nearness of You" I especially enjoyed along with many of the other songs posted here by GPM. Thanks!

Love it.

Andy,

I am certainly no expert on how this piece should be played. However, your rendition is hauntingly beautiful. It is amazing how well that tuning is hanging in there. It is going into my files. Somehow, I think it sounds very much like someone of Bach's era would have enjoyed hearing it.

I have only tuned the 1/4 Comma Meantone a handful of times in my life but I recall some 25 years ago that I had a rented Kawai console for a while that I tuned that way and was studying Bach's notebook for Anna Magdelena on it. I am going to send this file to the avant-guard composer who requested 1/4 CMT last week to ask his opinion of it. It may take him a while to get back to me on it, however. He is apparently quite a busy fellow.

Speaking of 1/4 CMT, there is one PTG RPT member, Karen Hudson-Brown who wrote to the Journal after Owen Jorgensen's passing last year about how his influence had lead her to that classic temperament which is now her favorite. She tunes it for many of her customers. It may be something you will want to try at some point such as when you get two good pianos going. The 1/4 CMT would suit your spinet very well.

Beautiful playing and tuning. Thanks for posting this.

Thanks, fellas! I'm glad you enjoyed it. The Allemande really is a worship piece for me... as is the Courante that follows it (not ready, yet), and the Sarabande (recorded in March).

Bach Partita No .4 - Sarabande

Bill, I'm up for trying the meantones on the Lester, but the Haddorff definitely gets EBVT III!

--Andy

Hello everyone,

It has been some time since I posted on this thread, but I just wanted to give my latest impressions from using the EBVT III today.

I just tuned a very nice 7' grand which I have tuned several times before, and although I haven't tuned the EBVT III in a while, since I had previously tuned this same piano to EBVT III, the owner requested that I do so again.

Following Bill's instructions is just so easy! He explains everything. But I think this would mainly assist aural tuners such as myself. Just want to say thanks again, Bill.

As anyone who tunes is well aware, there are a certain set of compromises involved, especially beyond the temperament. Despite the imperfections we must encounter, a reliable temperament will make the rest of the tuning much more manageable, and the EBVT III is a very fine foundation to work from.

Today I decided to try and stick with keeping the octaves a priority. Previously I had experimented more with keeping the 5ths pure and sacrificing octaves, but today I guess I was in the mood for near perfect octaves.

In studying the information Bill has provided I will admit to only really following the instructions regarding the temperament, although his instructions are much more complete than that. I just figure that with a good foundation, I am capable of producing a musical result. Sometimes we go for more stretch and sometimes we don't, etc.

The piano sounded spectacular! My customer will be producing some recordings.

The results obtained to me show where the difference lies in this temperament - it can produce a much smoother, calmer sound with astounding harmony throughout the entire range of the keyboard. I love the way chords simply 'lay down' without all the rapid beats although there is certainly enough to keep it interesting. A beautifully even and very pleasing sound is what you get with a purity I have never before heard on a piano.

I encourage anyone who tunes aurally to try this because I have found it to be very easy and the reward is well worth the effort.

Thanks,

Nick

Thanks a lot for the report, Nick. It doesn't sound like it was "easier" to tune for you than ET. You had to go about tuning in a very different way from which you were accustomed and it tool a lot of study and effort on your part. A few people on here have accused me of taking "shortcuts" and using a "lazy" way to tune and charging my customers for it.

Anyone who takes the time and effort it requires to learn how to tune the EBVT III properly is amazed by how wonderful the piano sounds, however. Those who don't try and won't put in that effort sit on the sidelines and put it down. It's been going on for 20 years but I still persist.

Now, three PTG chapters have invited me to present it at chapter meetings and the annual institute will have me present it in Kansas City in July. People often call me and ask for it by name.

A few months ago, I referred a guy in Southeast Florida to you who wanted to do some Scriabin recordings and performances. I hope something came of that.

It's been awhile ........

In re-visiting my recordings in EBVT III, I came across these...not sure I ever posted them.....some great sounds....Rachmaninoff is playing most of these...taken from the original piano rolls and translated for the LX system. The other 2 are other artists interpretations of Rachmaninoff, from the Newport Festival.

Enjoy!



1. Rachmaninoff plays BACH on the LX
http://www.box.net/shared/2q2rbve1i7 or
http://www.box.net/shared/static/2q2rbve1i7.mp3

2. Rachmaninoff plays Rachmaninoff http://www.box.net/shared/bl2lxx90xb or
http://www.box.net/shared/static/bl2lxx90xb.mp3

3. Rachmaninoff plays Rachmaninoff http://www.box.net/shared/static/ly2rnf0gtl.mp3 or
http://www.box.net/shared/ly2rnf0gtl

4. Rachmaninoff plays Paderewski on the LX http://www.box.net/shared/static/jq7hrbiq7u.mp3 or
http://www.box.net/shared/jq7hrbiq7u

5. Rachmaninoff on the LX, from the Newport Festival
http://www.box.net/shared/static/ylrx2xts7x.mp3 or
http://www.box.net/shared/ylrx2xts7x

6. Rachmaninoff on the LX, from the Newport Festival
http://www.box.net/shared/static/m41sm8va4e.mp3 or
http://www.box.net/shared/m41sm8va4e

Cinnamonbear gave a little Cubase "enhancement" to the 2nd Rachmaninoff piece I posted above. I don't do any kind of processing or enhancements to the recordings I make, so this is very interesting to hear what the piano might sound like in a large hall.....my piano will prob never see a large hall, so this is pretty cool. Thanks Andy!

Original version Rachmaninoff plays Rachmaninoff http://www.box.net/shared/bl2lxx90xb or
http://www.box.net/shared/static/bl2lxx90xb.mp3

Cubase enhanced Rachmaninoff http://www.box.net/shared/imvpjlvkt2

GP,

A few weeks ago, I asked you about a list that you might be able to come up with of titles where you have both an ET and an EBVT III example. I was hoping to bring that to the presentation I have to give in Detroit but time is running short for that. I may just have to bring some EBVT III samples. Those that Andy re-engineered make great samples.

It would benefit everyone to be able to make back and forth comparisons. So, if you will do that soon, everyone on here can do that and then I will copy the list and put it on my website as well.

Thanks,

Somewhere in this thread, pages and pages ago, I asked Patrick Wingren if he could play Bach's WTC I, Prelude 22 in EBVT III on his nice Yamaha. It is in the remote key of Bb minor (five flats), we were talking in the thread about how EBVT III works in remote keys, and at the time, I had just discovered the piece when doing some sight reading one night and didn't know it well enough to record it for people to give it a gander, and Patrick is such a good pianist!

I would still like to hear Patrick play it on his nice Yamaha, but I know the guy is busy beyond belief. And so, here is a rendition I did last night on "The Mighty Lester," tuned earlier this week by Bill Bremmer to EBVT III, back to A440, after a brief stint at A443.

I posted this at Pianist Corner in the Member Recordings sub-forum, too, and have since learned that many people tend to take this Prelude at a faster tempo than I have felt it. Be warned, then. The tempo I settled into is a slow one, because, to me, the pulse fits the mood of the key so well. I've tried different, faster tempos, but they always seemed to plod or to chord and never revealed the lines of thought that I was sensing. I wanted it to flow, not plod, and I wanted it to speak in long sentences. To me, this is a piece about the passage of time (those repeated bass notes say "heartbeat, pulse, seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, years") and about patience through terrible circumstances. It is not a piece that complains about the trial, but the ache is real, not to be denied, and even fully considered, experienced and embraced.

I also think the EBVT III temperament definitely enhances the character of the piece. The tension and release is palpable. I'll leave it to the scholars to speculate and debate which temperament was used on which period instruments and such, but I'm glad Bill's modern-day well temperament can bring such a dimension to the sound of these profound harmonies.

Also by way of warning, I have been informed by a Pianist Corner friend that I committed a major note blunder, being a victim of a "helper natural sign" in my score followed by three of the same note in the measure without the helper sign, which, being a bear of little brain, I read as flats. Measure 10, if you're keeping score. Never having heard this played by anyone else before, and ignorance being bliss, I played it wrong with my whole heart, the flats just as minor as minor can be.

Still, I hope you like the way it turned out. Raw Lester, again. No sound enhancements.

Bach, WTC I, Prelude 22 in Bb min

--Andy

Hi Andy

I used to play this in the slower tempo as well.
The Es and D in measure 10 are natural in both my two editions: An old Novello and an older "Wood" Edition edited by Czerny. The naturals tend to momentarily lead towards F minor which sounds right. My only comment about the temperament is that I like it equally in ET. (But then I am "color" blind )

Chris

Andy,

I love your playing...been meaning to write you after listening to some of the other mighty Lester recordings...

Settled...quietly in the present...no BS...please don't worry about what some else considers wrong notes...as Monk said, (my recollection of the quote) (")man, the piano ain't got no wrong notes!(")...its the overarching sense of the music that matters, and you've got it... thank you!

I'm currently experimenting with EBVTIII on my own piano, and I promised myself, in order to be fair to the experiment, that I would keep it there, nice and clean, for a couple of months, without rushing to any conclusions. I only trust my perception on these things when I'm playing, for fun, forget that I'm "testing" the temeperament, and in the course of playing stop when struck by something that I sense as unsual,unsuspected, or beautiful in the sound of the instrument. So far, I've had a number of these paused moments, but still just letting the experiment flow.

Jim Ialeggio

Very enjoyable, Andy.

Thank you,

Alfredo
.

Beautiful, Jim! I love that quote! Words to live by!!! Thank you!

I'm also glad to know of your experiment. For some reason I feel bouyed when others acknowledge that they hear at their own keyboard what I hear when I'm at mine. I often find those "pause moments" to be profound. Sometimes they evoke wonder. Sometimes emotional release (laughter, tears). Perhaps at some time you can share in more detail what you've been playing and how the temperament effected you.

Thank you so much for your words, and thanks for listening!

--Andy

Andy,

I played the recording this morning and found it to be hauntingly beautiful! Not knowing the piece, I did not recognize where it should have been major rather than minor. There is a simple Bach prelude that I play which is in a minor key. At the very end, there is a note which is supposed to be a natural but to me, it sounds better if it remains a flat which is what it is in the key signature. I wondered if it was an editing error, frankly.

Which prelude? I may have the autograph and can check.

Kees

Ahha! I'm not the only one.

I do this all the time...I finally realized that the modal ambiguities within tonalities are..well...ambiguous...That's why I like em'. Straight tonal expositions are not my piece of cake...leave the door open I say...think Debussy, and lots of jazz, but yesiree, its there in Bach as well...I'm happiest when the root is implied, not spoken.

It is probably not an editing error. Most of the WTC minor key pieces, both preludes and fugues, end in a major tonic accidental to the key signature in my editions and presumably as Bach intended.

In my edition, it is simply called "Prelude in C Minor". I have no other numbers or identifying information. It is a very easy piece that is found in many books that students study. In the next to last measure, the bass note is G2 followed by a broken G Major triad in which the B-flat in the key signature is negated by a natural sign. The next group of four sixteenth notes has two B's in it which would be naturals since they follow a natural sign in the same measure.

However, since the piece has B-flat in the key signature, I mistakenly played those B's as B-flats until I noticed one day that they should be naturals. I tried it both ways and each has a different effect. I know that Bach often ended a piece that is in a minor key on a "happy note" with major chord. He does so in this simple piece (which clearly shows that I am in no way any kind of advanced pianist) on a G Major chord (which is the dominant key of C minor or C Major).

I have assumed that the two B's I mistakenly played for a long time as B-flats are intended to be B-naturals but I honestly still like it better if I play them as B-flats. Maybe it's just me but having them be naturals just sounds weird.

Thanks for posting this recording, Andy. Your playing, your Lester and the temperament come together to create a lovely sound.

Bill, Alfred, Jake, thank you so much for your comments. Jake, I see you "get it," too. I cannot separate my playing from the temperament and what it does for this particular instrument! Please forgive me once again for my enthusiasm!

Here is another one. This one I recorded the same night I did the Prelude. But I gave this recording, "the treatment," meaning, it has reverb, noise reduction, EQ touches, etc. I am still learning about this "production" stuff, but I hope you can see where I am trying to go with this. Anyway, any interested listeners, it's in F maj.

Bach--Aria, "My Heart Ever Faithful" from the Pentecost Cantata

BTW, Chris, I played these two pieces last Sunday in church on a nice Yamaha grand that had just been tuned to ET, and it sounded divine to my ears, too, (I love that piano, too!) and so I must give props to the person who cares for the church piano, as well--David Graham.

Crossposted in Pianist Corner--Member Recordings:

Through the miracle of modern technology, as in:

http://youtu.be/py6LV0KAxr4 (reference starts at 2:44...)

Here is the corrected version, with E maj. in the treble clef throughout and across m. 10 and into m. 11.

Bach, WTC I, Prelude 22 in Bb min., Corrected m. 10

because my friend said:



--Andy Strong

Beautiful Andy.

Thanks, Ralph!

Here's one in A maj. that I recorded tonight. This tuning really sings (thanks, Bill!)!

"Away in the Manger" (Spillman tune)

Andy, this sounds great, and your playing is very sensitive, kudos!

Further proof that EBVT III is a wonderful and beautiful sounding temperament.

Thank you so much, GP! And now, an encore presentation...

Over in Pianist Corner, several topics in diverse threads ("Friedrich Kuhlau," "interesting podcast about editing in classical recordings," "transcriptions," and the use of the word, "astonishing,") found thier nexus here:

Astonishing Kuhlau podcast

I thought some of you classical music lovers here in the Tuner/Tech forum might find it interesting.

--Andy

I will eventually try to tune EBVT III on my acoustic piano. Meanwhile however, I wonder if it is possible to try the temperament on my digital piano. I have a Yamaha CLP-440 with alternate tunings within the software but no EBVT III available in my version of the software. Anyone know how if upgrades are possible and if EBVT III is likely to be recieved and accepted by the digital piano manufacturers?

Hari, it's possible on many MIDI instruments to alter the scale tuning away from equal temperament using a system exclusive message. It looks like the details for your CLP-440 Clavinova are on page 4 of this manual. I'm not sure the resolution (whole cents) will be good enough to get the sound exactly right, and it's unclear how changing this will interact with any stretch built into the original samples. There's no harm in trying, though. grandpianoman and I were going to try this on his Yamaha too at one point.