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#2062336 - 04/10/13 09:34 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Grandpianoman]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 6034
Loc: Rochester MN
I noticed the passing car!

I did my listening with both quality speakers (Paradigm) and two different headsets (Sennheiser & Audio Technica). In all listenings, I preferred the Avenson.

Your Mason is a truly fine instrument.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2062345 - 04/10/13 10:10 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Grandpianoman]
Mwm Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 752
Grandpianoman,

Good morning, do you know of or have heard the Rachmaninoff re-performances issued by Zenph Inc. in 2009? They were recorded in both stereo and binaural simultaneously, with the stereo in front of the piano at approx.. 2 metres, and the binaural head at the performers position relative to the keyboard. I love listening to the binaural version, on headphones of course. There is so much more resonance to the instrument from that position. The stereo version is also wonderful on speakers, just different.

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#2062348 - 04/10/13 10:23 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Mwm Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 752
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
I noticed the passing car!

I did my listening with both quality speakers (Paradigm) and two different headsets (Sennheiser & Audio Technica). In all listenings, I preferred the Avenson.

Your Mason is a truly fine instrument.


Marty,

Grandpianoman uses a basically binaural recording technique. Do you hear a difference when using headphones as opposed to speakers? I only am using headphones at the moment for the internet recordings. My system is in another room (KEF and Velodyne).

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#2062349 - 04/10/13 10:26 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Grandpianoman]
Olek Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 6329
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Grandpianoman
Hi Andy....yes, same config that Patrick suggested back when i started this thread. Here is a pic of the Rode's....the Avensons I used yesterday/today, are basically in the same position, prob a little closer into the piano, no string cover in any of the recordings, inc the recent ones. 45 deg angle...you position them where they sound the best, by using your head, literally...put your head in the area, move it around, where it sounds the best, put the mics there in that config...this comes from Patrick.

After listening to it for awhile, I see what you guys are saying...the Rode is also a bit more in your face, less room acoustics....mic position was the same pretty much, just exchanged the mics, left the stands in the exact position. The Avenson's have the same transducer as the very expensive QTC mics.

Did anyone notice in the Solfegetto Avenson recording, at the beginning around 00:14' there is a car going up the street in the background?...it's like a 3d sound effect, with headphones that is....interesting.



I also hear something else .. but tht was not why I wrote.

i dont know much in recording, but I saw a mike placement where one mike is in the curve of the piano, oriented toward the treble region, while the other is farther and oriented toward the bass bridge.

This is probably not making a very natural recording, but may be it can lower a little the percussive part ?

Did you try such position ?

When you record, I suppose you raise the mikes , I always have seen them at +- 2 meters from the floor, in similar orientation than on the pic, in front of the angle done by the cover. (possibly a typical German type of recording, with some space between mikes and instrument)

On the 2 last recordings, I like also the second, but the first is warm and certainly worth also. I did not though as much change could occur between 2 different mikes.
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2062350 - 04/10/13 10:26 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Cinnamonbear]
woodog Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 365
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
I prefer the Avenson Omnis. Better headroom. Sounds more natural and open.


I was just going to say something like that! The Avenson mics give a sound that is warmer, less brittle than what I hear in the Rode recordings.

Sounds really good, GP! Are the mics in the same position as the other recordings? I mean, are you using the NOS stereo technique?


Same observation here. Currently at home listening (learning, hopefully) with tubes and big ole' horns (E-V Patrician 800's)

Your piano is in the room with me!
_________________________
Graham Fitch's Piano Pedagogy Site
(A WORTHY RESOURCE!)

--------------------
current studies:
Debussy: Suite Bergamasque, Prelude & Menuet
Beethoven Op. 78
Bach WTC 1, C# Major (#3)

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#2062352 - 04/10/13 10:30 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Mwm]
Mwm Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 752
Originally Posted By: Mwm
Grandpianoman,

Good morning, do you know of or have heard the Rachmaninoff re-performances issued by Zenph Inc. in 2009? They were recorded in both stereo and binaural simultaneously, with the stereo in front of the piano at approx.. 2 metres, and the binaural head at the performers position relative to the keyboard. I love listening to the binaural version, on headphones of course. There is so much more resonance to the instrument from that position. The stereo version is also wonderful on speakers, just different.


link http://www.zenph.com/the-music

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#2062355 - 04/10/13 10:43 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Mwm]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 6034
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: Mwm
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
I noticed the passing car!

I did my listening with both quality speakers (Paradigm) and two different headsets (Sennheiser & Audio Technica). In all listenings, I preferred the Avenson.

Your Mason is a truly fine instrument.


Marty,

Grandpianoman uses a basically binaural recording technique. Do you hear a difference when using headphones as opposed to speakers? I only am using headphones at the moment for the internet recordings. My system is in another room (KEF and Velodyne).

Mwm,

Sure, there is a difference. There is a difference between the two headsets also. But, I'm accustomed to the differences with the equipment that I use. In each case, I prefered the sound package as recorded with the Avensons.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2062392 - 04/10/13 01:28 PM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Mwm Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 752
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted By: Mwm
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
I noticed the passing car!

I did my listening with both quality speakers (Paradigm) and two different headsets (Sennheiser & Audio Technica). In all listenings, I preferred the Avenson.

Your Mason is a truly fine instrument.


Marty,

Grandpianoman uses a basically binaural recording technique. Do you hear a difference when using headphones as opposed to speakers? I only am using headphones at the moment for the internet recordings. My system is in another room (KEF and Velodyne).

Mwm,

Sure, there is a difference. There is a difference between the two headsets also. But, I'm accustomed to the differences with the equipment that I use. In each case, I prefered the sound package as recorded with the Avensons.


I prefer the Avenson pair as well. Amazing quality at the price.

As an aside, refering to your byline "And God said;...", was it her nemesis, aka Lucifer, that said "Let there be Mason & Hamlin in all its shimmering resonance" ?

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#2062482 - 04/10/13 05:39 PM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Mwm]
Grandpianoman Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 2242
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Ahh, you picked up on that....Wow, some audiophles here!....great! I have been one since high school. Although since buying my M&H, my main speakers have been silent due to the poistion they needed to be in...the M&H is in the way. LOL. When I do some serious stereo listening, it's with a fantastic tube headphone amp, Woo Audio WA5 with a pair of AKG K1000 headphones. The WA5 was designed specifically for these discontinued headphones. However, most of the time, I just plug in the Koss Porta Pro's into my Ipad/Iphone. Also an avid STAX headphone fan.

I have not tried the mic position used in the Zenph recordings, prob because I don't have a dummy head and the correct mics for that. I have all 3 of the Zenph CD's and also enjoy listening to the binaural tracks.

I agreee with you all....the Avensons are sounding more realisitc and natural. That is one of their selling points, and yes, a great bargain for the $$. They use the same capsule as the very expensive QTC mics, and those are some great sounding mics on pianos, just super expensivo. wink They have a slight bit of background hiss, but I don't mind that at all, given how great they sound, and my living room is not a sound studio anyway,.....fridge sounds, cars going up the street etc. My fridge is like 20 yrs old and is very noisy...it's time for a new more efficeint and quiet one.

Zenph....I thought they had closed their doors....good to see that is not the case. I have their LX version of O. Petereson, Art Tatum, and their Glenn Gould Goldberg Variation CD's. It's fantastic to have them playing on my LX/M&H....uncanny really.

I find the music of Andrew LLoyd Weber to be very easy to listen to....the harmony and melodies are really beautiful. In EBVT III, it sounds great. John Williams, same effect.

Thanks Marty, I am so fortunate to have a piano like this M&H BB....I never thought that I would end up with a piano that sounds like this. A combination of several factors here that lead to this wonderful sound....a great piano to begin with, and it has its original soundboard and bridges. The piano was rebuilt and the 2 player systems were added, however, the sound greatly improved with 2 added additions....the Wapin bridge mod and Ari Issacs hammers...his bass strings as well, but they were already on there. Then along comes Bill Bremmer's EBVT, then Ari's ET....both great ways to tune a piano....a very happy camper here.

Isn't the piano an incredible instrument.




Edited by Grandpianoman (04/10/13 05:40 PM)
Edit Reason: corrections

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#2062485 - 04/10/13 05:42 PM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Mwm]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 6034
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: Mwm
As an aside, refering to your byline "And God said;...", was it her nemesis, aka Lucifer, that said "Let there be Mason & Hamlin in all its shimmering resonance" ?

Nah, the Mason was extolled by choirs of angels.

And Lucifer said: Let there be Lester!
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2062488 - 04/10/13 05:45 PM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Mwm]
Grandpianoman Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 2242
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Love it! smile

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#2062492 - 04/10/13 05:52 PM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Grandpianoman]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 6034
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: Grandpianoman
Isn't the piano an incredible instrument.

Correction: The piano is an incredible instrument!
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2062495 - 04/10/13 05:53 PM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Grandpianoman]
Mwm Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 752
On my headphones I hear, aside from a slightly warmer sound and a bit more bass (I think), I hear the best thing - air. The sound stage seems larger.

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#2062498 - 04/10/13 05:56 PM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Grandpianoman]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 6034
Loc: Rochester MN
Mwm - I ordered the Rach. I had not been aware of these recordings. Thanks!
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2062500 - 04/10/13 05:59 PM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Mwm Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/13
Posts: 752
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Mwm - I ordered the Rach. I had not been aware of these recordings. Thanks!


It's the only one I own - found it in Chicago, used. I want to get the others as well.

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#2062502 - 04/10/13 06:04 PM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Mwm]
Grandpianoman Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 2242
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Yes...def....the Rodes sound closer to the piano, less room ambiance. The Avensons are a bit warmer overall. They sound very close to how the piano sounds live. Their spl is 145, which is really good for high pressure/loud sounds, like a piano can produce.

hmmmm...yeah, the piano is an incredible instrument.

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#2062503 - 04/10/13 06:05 PM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Mwm]
Grandpianoman Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 2242
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Well worth getting them all!


Edited by Grandpianoman (04/10/13 06:06 PM)

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#2062533 - 04/10/13 07:31 PM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3722
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted By: Mwm
As an aside, refering to your byline "And God said;...", was it her nemesis, aka Lucifer, that said "Let there be Mason & Hamlin in all its shimmering resonance" ?

Nah, the Mason was extolled by choirs of angels.

And Lucifer said: Let there be Lester!


Ouch.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2062560 - 04/10/13 08:27 PM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3722
Loc: Rockford, IL
Speaking of Lesters...

(and, I know this is not really the proper place for this question, but I pray the indulgence of my PW friends who check in on this thread...)

I am currently in possession of three Lester 46" consoles, which are practically identical triplets. They were rescued from a school district. One of them plays and sounds like an absolute dream. One of them is almost as good. One of them needs, um, work.

The serial numbers are 237863, 237867, and 240052. If anyone has the Mysterious Serial Number Book and would be willing to look up their birthdays, I'd appreciate it. (Jer used to do that for me when he had a minute, and now I am suffering a pang of bittersweet sadness. frown )

Thanks in advance.

--Andy
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2062587 - 04/10/13 09:20 PM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Andrew Ranger Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 60
Loc: Missoula Montana
Quote:
The serial numbers are 237863, 237867, and 240052. If anyone has the Mysterious Serial Number Book and would be willing to look up their birthdays, I'd appreciate it.


Andy-

All 3 of those pianos were made in 1953.
_________________________
Andrew Ranger
Piano Technician

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#2062599 - 04/10/13 09:49 PM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Andrew Ranger]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3722
Loc: Rockford, IL
Thank you so much, Andrew! laugh thumb
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2062626 - 04/10/13 10:43 PM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Grandpianoman]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 6034
Loc: Rochester MN
Sorry Andy - I knew you would read this and couldn't wait for the reaction.

OK, so now you own one spinet and three consoles! Has Bremmer convened a coven? It the Mighty One jealous?

This is too good!

_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2062653 - 04/10/13 11:40 PM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Minnesota Marty]
woodog Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 03/21/12
Posts: 365
Loc: Bowling Green, KY
Ha!!

Have a Lester 7' grand in our church.

'Course, it IS a Unitarian Church.

Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted By: Mwm
As an aside, refering to your byline "And God said;...", was it her nemesis, aka Lucifer, that said "Let there be Mason & Hamlin in all its shimmering resonance" ?

Nah, the Mason was extolled by choirs of angels.

And Lucifer said: Let there be Lester!
_________________________
Graham Fitch's Piano Pedagogy Site
(A WORTHY RESOURCE!)

--------------------
current studies:
Debussy: Suite Bergamasque, Prelude & Menuet
Beethoven Op. 78
Bach WTC 1, C# Major (#3)

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#2062796 - 04/11/13 08:43 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3722
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Sorry Andy - I knew you would read this and couldn't wait for the reaction.

OK, so now you own one spinet and three consoles! Has Bremmer convened a coven? It the Mighty One jealous?

This is too good!


Nothing evil about it. Just the opposite, in fact. It's a Rescue Mission. I sing Salvation Army songs while I work.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2062807 - 04/11/13 09:10 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Grandpianoman]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 6034
Loc: Rochester MN
On-ward Les-ter so-o-o-o-diers, march toward days o-of yore.

It is a fine thing you do, Andy!
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2063837 - 04/13/13 03:05 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Grandpianoman]
Grandpianoman Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 2242
Loc: Portland, Oregon
I posted this over in the UT thread for Jazz...this was recorded some hours later with the Rode NT5's....I updated my software for converting files to different formats, .wav to mp3 etc. I also realized that I did not have the best quality setting for these conversions....:( So here is the Garson Jazz file you have not heard, in the .flac conversation, which is supposed to be better than .mp3...not as large as a wav file, but larger than an .mp3.

You can really hear clearly as to what is going on with the hammers, impact on the strings, and the better clarity. At about 3:02, my little dog decided to do his 'dog shake'...you know, shakes his while body as if he had been swimming...LOL. The general consensus is that .flac is superior to .mp3.

Just for fun, I re-did the same "Unexpected Song" in this .flac format....let me know what you all think. For me, less distortion, a clearnes/cleaness if you will of the piano, better definition of the piano tone. The box.net site does decode .flac and play it, just takes a few moments. Enjoy......


M.Garson 3 Rode NT5 Omnis .flac https://www.box.com/s/445ql3xqyl0r4r78t5dm (40+mb!)

"Unexpected Song" Avenson STO-2 mics .flac format https://www.box.com/s/7ym987m8kxpgleks9x8i (40+mb)


Edited by Grandpianoman (04/13/13 11:58 AM)
Edit Reason: spelling

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#2063898 - 04/13/13 08:17 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Grandpianoman]
pyropaul Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 132
Loc: Montreal
Flac is a lossless compression format, unlike mp3, aac etc. which are all lossy. Of course, flac cannot compress files as much as the lossy formats.

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#2063900 - 04/13/13 08:26 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Grandpianoman]
RonTuner Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 1579
Loc: Chicagoland
Nice sound GP!!

I really enjoyed that new jazz piece...
_________________________
Piano/instrument technician
www.ronkoval.com
@ronkoval

my piano videos:
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=drwoodwind


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#2063916 - 04/13/13 09:24 AM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Grandpianoman]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3722
Loc: Rockford, IL
Wow, GP! The flac files (and the tuning!) sound wonderful!!! I prefer the Rode mic recording of the Garson selections this time (I'm listening through Grado SR60s).

BTW, I wanted to say that I heard the vehicle in the Solfegetto recording, too. It was a 1995 GMC Sonoma 5 speed with an exaust leak.

I was not able to tell the breed of dog in the Garson Rode recording. But the addition of the percussion passage was a nice touch. Very musical. grin

--Andy


Edited by Cinnamonbear (04/13/13 09:35 AM)
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2064126 - 04/13/13 04:40 PM Re: My Piano in EBVT III [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Grandpianoman Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 2242
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Andy, felt the same way...the Rode's sounded better with the .flac than the same file with .mp3 Unexpected Song file...not sure why.

Lol...are you sure that's the model car in the background?

The tuning is the same one for first 5 pieces i posted.......just that it was recorded some hours later after playing a lot of files on it. smile


Edited by Grandpianoman (04/13/13 04:42 PM)

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