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#1389286 - 03/05/10 09:45 PM Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2332
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Hi All,

For those interested and with the stomach for some very rudimentary chords played to a standard that almost qualifies as mediocre I have a shared file with a short (3 mins) recording of the RD SN upgrade.

The only other sound clip I've heard in the Public domain is awful (who do the companies get to put these demos together?!). I thought it would be better to play something slow and fairly sparse so the tonal quality can be heard.

The file is of the Supernatural Grand Piano 4...my favourite of the 17 SN sounds. When the new board and OS update is installed the piano powers-up to the SN Grand 1, which is a little bit different to no. 4.

Overall I would say it is a very worthwhile upgrade and will give some new life to any RD-700GX. The stock RD-700GX sounds are quite some way behind these new SN ones and I doubt I'll ever bother to explore them...a short play is all it needs to hear the big difference between the old and new.

The RD was recorded direct via 1/4" outputs to the analogue ins of a stand-alone hi-fi CD writer and there is just a little noise (RD doesn't have SPDIF out like V-Piano). The recording was imported into iTunes as 192kbps mp3. I have not tweaked the piano voice with additional resonance etc. The only change is I altered the key touch offset slightly to half way between medium and hard. There is some reverb, which I reduced to "room" rather than the default "hall"...I'm not a fan of over-done reverb!

http://www.mediafire.com/file/zzgtkymtjjm/01 RD-700GX SuperNATURAL.mp3

Cheers,

Steve
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1389290 - 03/05/10 09:53 PM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: EssBrace]
Zinfan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/31/09
Posts: 110
Loc: Grover Beach, Ca
Thank you Steve it sounds very nice to my ears and the RD-700GX(+SN) remains on my list. That is the first time I heard it with the SN kit so very useful to me.

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#1389307 - 03/05/10 10:12 PM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: Zinfan]
sullivang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 2100
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Excellent!!

Greg.

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#1389308 - 03/05/10 10:14 PM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: sullivang]
jmmec Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/02/10
Posts: 86
Loc: New Mexico (yes, USA!)
Thanks -- sounds really nice to me. smile
_________________________
Roland HP-307
Roland Quad-Capture

https://vimeo.com/58278342

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#1389357 - 03/06/10 01:04 AM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: jmmec]
sullivang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 2100
Loc: Sydney, Australia
This HP307 clip is pretty impressive - to me it sounds like there's real piano in that room. Just listen to the aggressive "thwack" of the hammer strikes.

"Roland Foresta - Aperitivo con Chopin - Demo HP307":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BXt0IhnWqw

Greg.

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#1389374 - 03/06/10 02:05 AM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: sullivang]
7even Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/28/09
Posts: 151
Originally Posted By: sullivang
This HP307 clip is pretty impressive - to me it sounds like there's real piano in that room. Just listen to the aggressive "thwack" of the hammer strikes.

"Roland Foresta - Aperitivo con Chopin - Demo HP307":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BXt0IhnWqw

Greg.


Wow! That sounds so lovely. Almost makes me want to sell my YPG-635 tomorrow and get the 700GX/SN kit haha grin
_________________________
Now: RD-700NX
Someday: Steinway concert grand :|

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#1389398 - 03/06/10 02:47 AM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: sullivang]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: sullivang
This HP307 clip is pretty impressive - to me it sounds like there's real piano in that room. Just listen to the aggressive "thwack" of the hammer strikes.

"Roland Foresta - Aperitivo con Chopin - Demo HP307":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BXt0IhnWqw

Greg.


Wow! What a very accurate "slice of life" video of Italy. I love the relaxed family friendly atmosphere, obligatory apperetivi, harsh lighting and gum chewing tourneus de pages. Makes we want to rush out and eat a risotto al porcini washed down with a nice Barbera d'Alba.

Oh, and not a bad piano sound either.

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#1389437 - 03/06/10 04:56 AM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: EssBrace]
BazC Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 711
Loc: Cambridgeshire, UK
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Hi All,

For those interested and with the stomach for some very rudimentary chords played to a standard that almost qualifies as mediocre I have a shared file with a short (3 mins) recording of the RD SN upgrade.


Very nice Steve, sounds gorgeous, thanks for posting!
_________________________

Korg SP200, Pianoteq

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#1389606 - 03/06/10 10:27 AM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: EssBrace]
bkmz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 142
Loc: Belarus
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Hi All,

http://www.mediafire.com/file/zzgtkymtjjm/01 RD-700GX SuperNATURAL.mp3



This is really impressive! It's actually sounds like a studio recording of a real piano (unlike most of DPs recorded from line-out, as everyone can hear on youtube). And the long natural non-looped decay of notes is very beautiful.
_________________________
ex-Yamaha CLP 330

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#1389627 - 03/06/10 10:59 AM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: EssBrace]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4272
Loc: Northern NJ
What, no "Flight of the Bumblebee"????

Thanks Steve! Very nice intimate view of the expansion. I fully get now why manufacturers don't include slow pieces amongst the built-in piano demo songs.

Do you find it difficult to control when playing softly, or at any other level for that matter?

Does the basic RD-700GX have the really nifty human voice patch @ ~4:00 in this HP-307 video?

_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1389633 - 03/06/10 11:10 AM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: dewster]
Aidan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 371
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: dewster
Does the basic RD-700GX have the really nifty human voice patch @ ~4:00 in this HP-307 video?


Yes, it does.
_________________________
Yamaha CP40 | Hammond SK1-61 | Kurzweil PC361

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#1389709 - 03/06/10 01:03 PM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: Aidan]
Nachtschatten Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 27
Loc: Utrecht, The Netherlands
Nice videos + music files, thanks - you immediately want to join in to the Italians...

I had a chance this afternoon to try the RD-700GX with the extension board, compared to some other DP's. I'm not an accomplished player, but I tested for some basic characteristics (with headphones), and it's a great DP:

1) All the new piano sounds are great IMHO (except maybe the mono sounds, but some people may have specific uses for them).

2) I also preferred the Grand Piano 3 and 4 (and agree with the reasons stated above).

3) Very nice and rich sounds, responds to partial pedalling, very nice string resonance. Succeeds the 'sustain test' (the stock sounds don't) (it's been described + discussed in another thread, it's a pity I can't find the link): you play a note, press the sustain pedal, lift the key - the note is sustained, of course. Then you press the same key again, very softly without producing a new sound. Lift the pedal, the note should still be sustained. Most Yamahas get this right (but surprisingly, not the CP1 - it always produces a new sound, however softly I press the key - this is a real bugger; AND if I lift the pedal, the first sound disappears). Rolands didn't do this right, until now (HP307 and RD700GX with SN succeed). It's not really important in day-to-day play, but it's a hint on how 'properly' the DP / software is done.

4) No audible looping. I specifically listened for that on the other DP's and now that I know what to search for, it's pretty obvious in most DP's (even top-of-the-line CLP380). Stretching is much more difficult to detect (couldn't hear it), I'm probably not able to play the whole range equal enough (although it's pretty obvious on the files uploaded in other threads here).

5) Key feel: I'm probably not accomplished enough to detect the finesses, but I liked the keyboard. No real difference between the PHA-II and III, but the feel is heavier than most of the others, especially Yamaha (notwithstanding the escapement feature). I very briefly played the AvantGrand N3 - it has escapement, but the general touch is lighter.

5) I really liked the other available (stock) sounds. They even seemed superior to the HP307 other sounds, although this might be subjective as they should be very similar or even the same. Harpsichord is very nice, organ sounds as well. I'm not familiar with EP's, so can't really state an opinion.

Just some opinions, take it with a grain of salt, as everything on these (great!) forums...
_________________________
Just ordered an RD-700GX (SN upgrade) within an upright cabinet + nice speakers, looking very much forward to receiving + playing it!

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#1389724 - 03/06/10 01:16 PM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: Nachtschatten]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4272
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Nachtschatten
Succeeds the 'sustain test' (the stock sounds don't) (it's been described + discussed in another thread, it's a pity I can't find the link): you play a note, press the sustain pedal, lift the key - the note is sustained, of course. Then you press the same key again, very softly without producing a new sound. Lift the pedal, the note should still be sustained. Most Yamahas get this right (but surprisingly, not the CP1 - it always produces a new sound, however softly I press the key - this is a real bugger; AND if I lift the pedal, the first sound disappears).

I'm totally stealing this and incorporating it into to the DPBSD MIDI file! As you are, I'm fairly surprised the CP1 fails this test.

And thanks much for your observations, particularly your comments on the other sounds!
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1389732 - 03/06/10 01:30 PM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: dewster]
Nachtschatten Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 27
Loc: Utrecht, The Netherlands
Oh, one thing I forgot:

Yes, the mid range somewhat lacks depth and richness. On all the SN sounds. Very peculiar is that from G6 upwards there's a metallic quality / 'twang' to the sound, the transition from F6 is very audible, also on all SN sounds. Same on the HP307. This is the only counterpoint I could detect. I don't know however if this is supposed to be like that (may be something AP's do as well).

Dewster, there was a whole thread on the sustain test - the kudos go to someone else. I tried hard to find it, but obviously searching for 'sustain test' and similar gives thousands of results, but not the thread I was searching for (it was called something like 'Something nearly all DP's get wrong' - but searching for this in different variations didn't help either). It seems to be a basic test, just as searching for looping, stretching, note attack, decay etc. - added of course to simply playing the DP for some time and ask yourself if you like / don't like what you hear.
_________________________
Just ordered an RD-700GX (SN upgrade) within an upright cabinet + nice speakers, looking very much forward to receiving + playing it!

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#1389748 - 03/06/10 01:45 PM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: Nachtschatten]
Darla Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/05
Posts: 43
Nachtschatten,
Thanks for the review. Couple of question for you (and anyone else).

1) Did you prefer the feel and action of the RD or the CP1?
2) If the CP1 was the same price as the RD--which would you buy?
3) Is the SN Piano add-on available for purchase now? Where?

Thanks in advance.

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#1389756 - 03/06/10 01:53 PM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: Darla]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2332
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Hi

I haven't played a CP1 but the action is slightly lighter I think and non-graded. Everyone that plays it seems to like it a lot though. The RD has a decent action, certainly one of the better actions out there.

Your second question really only has one answer I think...if CP1 were the same price (there is a BIG difference in price remember) then I would have the CP1, no question. But, if it's just acoustic piano emulation you are after I think the RD probably is on a par with the CP1. The difference will be one of taste/preference rather than a clear piano A is better than piano B comparison. The vintage EPs are good on the RD but from the demos out there sound just breathtaking to me on the CP.

SN upgrade kit hit UK shops last week so I assume they are out there now.

Cheers,

Steve
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1389761 - 03/06/10 01:58 PM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: Nachtschatten]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Nachtschatten
Oh, one thing I forgot:

Yes, the mid range somewhat lacks depth and richness. On all the SN sounds. Very peculiar is that from G6 upwards there's a metallic quality / 'twang' to the sound, the transition from F6 is very audible, also on all SN sounds. Same on the HP307. This is the only counterpoint I could detect. I don't know however if this is supposed to be like that (may be something AP's do as well).

Dewster, there was a whole thread on the sustain test - the kudos go to someone else. I tried hard to find it, but obviously searching for 'sustain test' and similar gives thousands of results, but not the thread I was searching for (it was called something like 'Something nearly all DP's get wrong' - but searching for this in different variations didn't help either). It seems to be a basic test, just as searching for looping, stretching, note attack, decay etc. - added of course to simply playing the DP for some time and ask yourself if you like / don't like what you hear.


This was from Joshua Seth jscomposer. You could pm him.
Search doesn't really work on pianoworld.

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#1389773 - 03/06/10 02:08 PM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: theJourney]
Nachtschatten Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 27
Loc: Utrecht, The Netherlands
Thanks, theJourney, will try to find the thread with your info, otherwise will pm him.

Darla, it really depends on your needs - you should try to find a shop and play for yourself (I think this is the most repeated advice on this forum). If it's EP's then CP1 is probably the way to go. My needs is mainly good AP sounds + everything that adds the depth to it. For me, it's a real problem that the CP1 always produces a sound, however lightly you play it. Also, the lack of string resonance. So, even if CP1 would be the same price as RD, I'd probably still go with the RD... But I don't know if the problems I had with the CP1 could be 'tweaked out'.

The SN kit is available in the Netherlands now, should be similar for the rest of Europe. Don't know about America(s) or other regions, sorry.
_________________________
Just ordered an RD-700GX (SN upgrade) within an upright cabinet + nice speakers, looking very much forward to receiving + playing it!

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#1389777 - 03/06/10 02:12 PM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: Nachtschatten]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Do we have clarity if there are additional (or fewer or different) acoustic piano sounds on the Super Realistic upgrade to the RD700GX as on the HP-307 or are they the same?

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#1389783 - 03/06/10 02:16 PM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: theJourney]
JcSr56 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/09
Posts: 58
Loc: Va
SW has the RD700gx upgrades in stock now if anyone is interested. I just recieved my tracking number from them.
John
_________________________
guitar player for 48 years, and started playing the piano 16 months ago.

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#1389814 - 03/06/10 03:07 PM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: theJourney]
Zinfan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/31/09
Posts: 110
Loc: Grover Beach, Ca
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Originally Posted By: Nachtschatten
Oh, one thing I forgot:

Yes, the mid range somewhat lacks depth and richness. On all the SN sounds. Very peculiar is that from G6 upwards there's a metallic quality / 'twang' to the sound, the transition from F6 is very audible, also on all SN sounds. Same on the HP307. This is the only counterpoint I could detect. I don't know however if this is supposed to be like that (may be something AP's do as well).

Dewster, there was a whole thread on the sustain test - the kudos go to someone else. I tried hard to find it, but obviously searching for 'sustain test' and similar gives thousands of results, but not the thread I was searching for (it was called something like 'Something nearly all DP's get wrong' - but searching for this in different variations didn't help either). It seems to be a basic test, just as searching for looping, stretching, note attack, decay etc. - added of course to simply playing the DP for some time and ask yourself if you like / don't like what you hear.


This was from Joshua Seth jscomposer. You could pm him.
Search doesn't really work on pianoworld.


This thread talks about it a bit

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...ite_id/1#import

I used google to search pianoworld.com for it, my search string was site:pianoworld.com jscomposer

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#1389816 - 03/06/10 03:10 PM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: JcSr56]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
Just received my tracking info from SW as well. I hope that this upgrade is everything I'm looking for. I'm hoping to keep my recording setup as simple as going out of my RD 700GX into my digital recorder.

I'm also watching the release of Ivory II but to leave the computer out of my setup would be SWEEEEET.

Curt

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#1389851 - 03/06/10 04:40 PM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: theJourney]
Nachtschatten Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 27
Loc: Utrecht, The Netherlands
From the Roland website:

•SN01 Grand Piano
•SN02 Clear Grand
•SN03 MellowGrand
•SN04 BrightGrand
•SN05 Grand Piano2
•SN06 UprightPiano
•SN07 RagtimeGrand
•SN08 Comp Piano
•SN09 Grand Piano3
•SN10 Grand Piano4
•SN11 BrightGrand2
•SN12 MellowGrand2
•SN13 Honky-tonk
•SN14 Comp Piano2
•SN15 Grand Mono
•SN16 Mellow Mono
•SN17 Bright Mono

From the HP307 manual, piano sounds:
1 Grand Piano 1
4 Grand Piano 2
6 Grand Piano 3
8 Rock Piano
10 Honky-tonk

There are a few more in the GM2 set, but they sound way inferior to the main piano sounds.

So, there seem to be more in the SN extension. And they all have the SN characteristics. On the HP307, I don’t know if the ones other than the first one have the SN characteristics. Didn’t really listen for it. For the SN extension, I preferred Grand Piano 3 and 4. Surprisingly, the UprightPiano really sounded somewhat drier, more closed, less roomy (but still very nice) than the Grand Piano voices.
_________________________
Just ordered an RD-700GX (SN upgrade) within an upright cabinet + nice speakers, looking very much forward to receiving + playing it!

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#1389881 - 03/06/10 05:46 PM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: Nachtschatten]
Nachtschatten Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 27
Loc: Utrecht, The Netherlands
I found the link to the sustain test, thanks theJourney (and kudos to jscomposer):

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/703018/1.html
_________________________
Just ordered an RD-700GX (SN upgrade) within an upright cabinet + nice speakers, looking very much forward to receiving + playing it!

Top
#1389891 - 03/06/10 05:56 PM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: Nachtschatten]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4272
Loc: Northern NJ
I just updated the DPBSD MIDI file (now at v1.5) to include this sustain test. Also added a key-down sympathetic resonance test. All of these of tests are now located near the beginning of the file, with the loop, stretch, and layer tests last.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1391936 - 03/09/10 06:58 AM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: curt88]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
Originally Posted By: curt88
Just received my tracking info from SW as well.

Well, my upgrade kit has been sitting at our FedEx station for the past two days and will ship out tomorrow. It sat at their "sort facility" all day yesterday and today it's at their "destination facility" which I know are the same damn building!!! FedEx is KILLING me this time!!

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#1392671 - 03/10/10 06:24 AM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: curt88]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
OK, I've installed the upgrade and I have to say that I'm concerned. My first impression is that my piano has been "V'd". It has a distinct V-piano/Piantoteq tone to it now that I just can't get rid of. I know that the marketing hype for this product says that it combines the technology of the V-piano with the sound of samples. But I can't even HEAR the sample sound anymore. I now feel like I have a V-piano without even half of the tweakability that a V-piano has.

The lows seem very exaggerated without clarity and the highs are very piercing - just like Pianoteq. I wish I knew how to adjust this out so that the sound of the original samples isn't so affected. I spent a few hours on it and I think I'm going back to my Expressive Grand preset.

I hope I'm just missing some adjustment or something...

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#1392687 - 03/10/10 07:46 AM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: curt88]
sullivang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 2100
Loc: Sydney, Australia
The HP307's AP sounds very good to me, however it does have that overprocessed/over-distilled uniformity. (played it for a few minutes today, for the second time).

Btw, I don't like the EP at all - Pianoteq and Lounge Lizard completely and utterly trounce it IMHO.

Greg.

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#1392690 - 03/10/10 07:48 AM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: curt88]
Strat Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 569
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Why do people almost never call companies about their products?

Call Roland.

So simple... *shakes head*
_________________________
Started playing in mid-June 2007. Self-taught... for now. :p

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#1392696 - 03/10/10 08:05 AM Re: Roland RD-700GX SuperNATURAL [Re: sullivang]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4272
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: sullivang
The HP307's AP sounds very good to me, however it does have that overprocessed/over-distilled uniformity. (played it for a few minutes today, for the second time).

Tragic, yet interesting. Process the samples enough and the inevitable result seems to be something of a bloody pulp.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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