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OK Barb, I will look into your suggestions of the recorder. I think I will use it to listen to myself.
How long did it take you to switch to 2/4 ? Are you finding the 2/4 gives you greater control than the 1/2/3/4 method for the faster swings ?

I began serious work on the 2/4 clicks the end of January when I started the Bert Ligon book. I was introduced to 2/4 a few years ago by someone on the Sudnow forum. I tried it and HATED it. I could barely start on the correct beat. I didn't stick with it.

Now, I love it. It took a bunch of slow, right hand only, practice. I don't know about greater control, but, I have a sense of playing in a jazzy style. I hear that back beat and it is just more fun playing that way.

Yup Barb I totally agree. The 2/4 helps me focus on the back beat and makes it more fun. I started about a week ago and I'm getting the hang of it, but like you I had initial trouble starting on the correct beat.

True story:

I was at a Jamey Aebersold jazz workshop a couple of years ago. Jamey was telling us about the 2/4 metronome click. Then, he told us that someone at a previous workshop asked Jamey where he can buy a metronome that clicks only on beats 2 and 4. He complained that his metronome clicks on every beat!

The class went hysterical hearing that story.

Barb et al
I've now done a bit of reading on Barb's suggestions for a recording device.
The Audacity is meant to have the Beat Analyzer feature, which helps you peg the beats per minute of a phrase. Does that mean it will tell me how accurate I am against the metronome bpm, or is the Beat Analyzer simply a metronome ?

I don't need to mix music. Is The Wave Creator or Audacity easier to use ?

You wouldn't believe it but I don't have a laptop, I just have a desktop !

Hi CA,

I wish I could help you out with your Audacity question, but I am clueless. We bought WAVE Creator before we knew about Audacity. I noticed that WAVE does have a free test download, so you can compare the two products. To me WAVE is easy to use -- just a click to record and another click to save it to an mp3. My desktop computer is right next to my piano.

If your desktop is not near your piano, you need to get a hand held recording device. Others on the forum do use these devices and you may want to inquire about it as a new thread topic.

Hope you get set up soon.

Barb

CA,

for recording, I would recommend buying a handheld device. They have great embedded mics and require nothing else. You can always post process on your PC with USB cable. You will get better quality than most setups, for less money.
Look into Zoom h2 & h4. Seriously, some guys here record with these, and they are amazing for the price. I think Monica does. I've also heard post from Jazzers that were impressive. I wish I had bought that instead of my current setup.

It might even have effects right in, so you don't need software. Usually, you want to add a bit of reverb on post process.

Audacity is good and free, but it's very much signal processing. I use Logic now, which is extremely expensive, but as an alternative, I would look at Reaper.

I wouldn't hold my breath on Audacity telling you if you're accurate against a metronome. Why don't you just record and see if you are ?

CA

Ever tried cakewalk.com ? Is this an option?

Cheers, GPA

Thanks heaps Barb, Knotty and GPA for your helpful responses.
I’m new to all this recording stuff. I’ve printed out your answers and will go into a music multimedia store over the next couple of weeks to discuss.
In fact my interest in jazz has been really recent. I’m just curious about hearing what I sound like, I won’t be good enough to even dream of letting anyone hear the recording. I’ve mainly been mucking around trying to teach myself but I read on the Non Classical Forum that Knotty was Dave Frank’s student. I’ve ordered Joy of Improvisation and one day after I’ve finished the swing and improvisation chapters, I might feel confident to record something for someone else to hear !

Because I’m very amateur, I don’t think I should spend too much money on my initial investment. My desktop is in my study so I like the idea of transferring it to my PC afterwards. At this stage I’m thinking I will get a hand held recorder and download the WAVE free trial.
Would you know if Reaper and Cakewalk are supported in Australia ? What happens if I get really stuck, is there a Helpdesk number I can phone for support ?

Does reverb make the recording sound more “professional” ?
My piano is in an open area which has tiles and not too much furniture – does that mean the reverb might be quite good already ? Do you tend to use more reverb in an outro ?

Cheers
custard

Hi guys,

thank you for this great threat. Barb, Knotty, Jazzwee, Custard, you guys are a great inspiration to me. I really wanted to ask you for help with this following problem of mine:

Whenever I attempt to practice runs, fills, lines etc in several keys I just get too caught up with the fingering. Many a times it feels as if my fingers are constantly at the wrong place (if you get what i mean). they trip over each other. I manage to work out good fingerings if I take the time to do so but I want to be able to play a line or improvise without my head constantly worrying about which finger to use. Does anyone here have a similar problem and how do you work on it? For me its quite serious as my playing is not very precise. I often slip off the key or hit a different note than I wanted to. I know that better fingering often eliminates the problem of accuracy but its a catch 22. More precise playing with good fingering vs more free and creative playing with fingers messing up a lot

A good instrument, good mics, a good mic preamp, and good A/D converter pretty much in that order would make the biggest difference in whether your recording sounds professional. Ah---don't forget the most important thing--the player.

Reverb is WAY down on the list imo.

The hand held digital recorder that was recommended might be your best choice.
Haven't used the Zoom but everyone seems to like it. I have the Sony PCM-D50.

For my regular piano recordings I invested some fairly serious dough into mics (DPA 4011s) and recorder (Tascam DV-RA 1000HD) but I wouldn't go that route in the beginning. There's plenty of those little recorders out at $500 or under that would probably work fine for you.

Hi saiman
Do you have a background in classical ?
I'm not an expert on your fingering problem but I see it as more than one factor:

Correct fingering.
From the Classical Forum, I know that even the classical guys spend time working out the best fingering for a particular piece, they say it's a personal thing. I'm not sure I agree, I think there is an optimal fingering for a given scale. That’s why Hanon provides fingering.

Dexterity.
I think everyone can improve dexterity. I just bought myself Hanon to do just that.

btw are you now more relaxed about your jazz ? I think it should flow through to your hands.

Best

custard

lol Dave Ferris, I so agree, the player is the biggest setback at the moment in my situation.
I will add your Sony PCM-D50 onto my list of questions when I go into the shop.
Thanks for the budget guideline for the small recorders, I will add a premium because equipment in Australia is expensive (lack of supplier competition due to small population).

hey custard. thanks for your help. I do actually have experience in classical but that teaches you to keep working on a piece until its perfect. I actual want to train my head to be more relaxed and let my fingers just be creative, rather than memorizing specific lines and fingerings.

I do a Hanon exercise with joy of improv every week but I just do the same fingering for all the key as there are no finger notations given. will see how it goes...

I will probably just go for a small recorder at this stage but do you know if the Zoom has a built-in pre-amp or do I need to buy an external one ?

I'm starting to realise that my recent interest in jazz is going to cost. I don't mind investing wisely, I know that jazz just isn't going to be a passing interest for me, I will love it for the rest of my life.

LOL Barb! That's wonderful.

There's clearly a niche in the market there. Special metronome for jass that only clicks on 2 and 4!

We could make millions on this, don't you think?

I'm sure a 'Jazz Metronome' would sell well to newbie jazzers. (Decades ago someone in the US marketed a 'Pet Rock' that sold well for a season or two).

any more suggestions regarding my problem? anyone?

Yes, I have a similar problem of fingerings just not coming natural to me. The only solution for me has been to write the fingerings for all the trouble spots. That means, if transposing, well, just write those new fingerings. I know it does hamper creative playing, but I don't worry about being creative until my fingers feel comfortable going places. Jazz playing is a big skill we are learning. I take one baby step at a time and I am confident that I will someday reach my goals.

There's a different approach with "runs" as that just involves practicing scales. I think Jazz requires extensive scale practice and is a constant thing. I practice this daily to some extent and strive to improve my legato phrasing.

Now on actual improvisation, I think we all have the same problem to varying degrees. Here's some thoughts as I've improved on this. First of all, consider your hand shape. When you improvise, is your hand extended and open? Or is it cupped and you are using mostly 3 fingers? Stretch your hand out and make sure every finger is available to improvise. That is probably half the problem right there for me. I found that extensive practice with fingers 4 & 5 (getting them to relax immediately after hitting a key) improved everything.

Anticipate where you are going when doing any fingering. Meaning thumb should be the lowest note and pinky the highest note you intend to play in a given hand position. This pretty much means, your hand should remain "open" at all times.

Some other technique things that have helped me is to practice diminished scales specifically. This requires more finger twisting although it uses only 3 fingers. Hard to do legato. Everything really is in the relaxation.

Some pages back, I have an exercise in improving your time, that should also improve your control. Helped me. As your brain responds more quickly to the neural impulses, everything evens out and there's more precision. Anyway, do that exercise for a couple of months at least.