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#1391682 - 03/08/10 09:19 PM Charles Walter grand piano opinions
BeeKay Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/07/09
Posts: 8
Loc: Illinois
After a long process of playing and listening to many different grands, I am inclined to purchase a Charles Walter grand. I am not sure about which of the two sizes I prefer. When searching the forum, I do not see many posts regarding the grands from Walter. Are there any members who may like to comment on their experiences with Walter grands? Thank you.

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#1391685 - 03/08/10 09:22 PM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: BeeKay]
Marty Flinn Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 2604
The Walter family is delightful, there pianos are great. They are not inexpensive as they are built in the U.S.
_________________________
Co-Author of The Complete Idiot's Guide To Buying A Piano. A "must read" before you shop.
Work for west coast dealer for Yamaha, Schimmel, Bosendorfer, Wm. Knabe.

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#1391688 - 03/08/10 09:28 PM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: Marty Flinn]
Dale Fox Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 1061
Loc: Nor California Sacramento area
One of the least known, good quality pianos out there. Most people don't know about them because their production is small and their dealer network is small, too.
_________________________
Dale Fox
Registered Piano Technician
Remanufacturing/Rebuilding

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#1391701 - 03/08/10 09:48 PM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: Dale Fox]
terminaldegree Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 2687
Loc: western Wisconsin
I got to try a 175 recently, and thought it was one of the nicer sub 6-footers I've played. Although it doesn't sound like a Mason, Steinway, or Baldwin, it still had a distinctly "American" sound. I would like to try a 190 but have not had the chance yet.
_________________________
Pianist, teacher, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Casio px-200, Bechstein A190 #192939 @ home
Steinway A #585209, B #416809 @ work
Schimmel 130T #339100, on loan

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#1391740 - 03/08/10 10:38 PM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: terminaldegree]
SeilerFan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 746
The CW 190 is an amazing grand piano. I love its sound and feel. I think the CW instruments are worth the money.

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#1391742 - 03/08/10 10:40 PM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: SeilerFan]
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3659
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
I like them, I like them alot grin
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Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos
www.pianoman.ca
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#1391765 - 03/08/10 11:07 PM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: Rod Verhnjak]
ChrisKeys Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 1274
Loc: Dallas, TX
I have a friend who purchased a new Walter 190 2 or 3 years ago. Very, very nice piano.

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#1391804 - 03/09/10 12:16 AM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: terminaldegree]
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5306
Loc: Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted By: terminaldegree
... Although it doesn't sound like a Mason, Steinway, or Baldwin, it still had a distinctly "American" sound.

Oh! That's good. It isn't supposed to sound like a M&H, a Steinway or a Baldwin. It is supposed to sound a lot like a Walter piano. smile

ddf
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

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#1391808 - 03/09/10 12:26 AM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: BeeKay]
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5306
Loc: Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted By: BeeKay
After a long process of playing and listening to many different grands, I am inclined to purchase a Charles Walter grand. I am not sure about which of the two sizes I prefer. When searching the forum, I do not see many posts regarding the grands from Walter. Are there any members who may like to comment on their experiences with Walter grands? Thank you.

The Walter 190 (6’ 3”) is a moderately powerful mid-sized piano designed for a mid-sized to larger living room or music room. It should be well balanced across the compass with good timbral dynamics.

The Walter 175 is shorter (5’ 9”) and one inch narrower. It has a lower-tensioned scale, a lighter, more flexible soundboard and softer hammers. Both in size and voice it is designed for a somewhat smaller room. It has a warmer voice with a slightly broader dynamic range.

Both were designed to have, for their size, a clean and articulate bass.

Both are built to the same, very high, quality standard. Your choice should be determined by your preference in voice and the size and acoustic character of room in which the piano is to be placed.

ddf
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

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#1391814 - 03/09/10 12:50 AM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: BeeKay]
charleslang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 2080
Originally Posted By: BeeKay
Are there any members who may like to comment on their experiences with Walter grands?


I think Del Fandrich, who posted above, actually designed these pianos. Needless to say, 'experience with Walter grands' is an understatment in that case.

I've never tried one out, but I've read many, many forum posts from members on all piano makes, and every time the Walter grands come up in a thread they get great praise.
_________________________
Charles Lang
Working on: A Night in Tunisia; Memories of Tomorrow (Keith Jarrett).
Just started: Brazilian Like (Michel Petrucciani)

Baldwin Model R (1974), Hardman 5'9" grand (1915), Rieger-Kloss 42.5" vertical

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#1391824 - 03/09/10 01:16 AM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: terminaldegree]
zxcjason Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 166
Loc: Vancouver, BC
I tried both pianos side by side last week, and they are very nice pianos!

The 175 has a warmer and softer tone, like Del mentioned, the 190 has a bolder tone.

Originally Posted By: terminaldegree
Although it doesn't sound like a Mason, Steinway, or Baldwin, it still had a distinctly "American" sound.


I also find the Walter sounds very American, but definitely different than a Steinway and Baldwin (never tried M&H yet). All have a full bodied sound, but I found the Steinway sounds sweeter. To me, the Charles Walter is like dark chocolate, while the Steinway is like candies (maybe like Skittles)


Edited by zxcjason (03/09/10 01:16 AM)

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#1391827 - 03/09/10 01:22 AM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: zxcjason]
BeeKay Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/07/09
Posts: 8
Loc: Illinois
Good evening everyone,

Thank you for responding to my question. Mr. Fandrich, I appreciate your input, especially in light of your contribution to the Walter design.

I have learned a lot on this forum. I am impressed by the collective wisdom of the group.

Thanks again.

Bill

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#1391853 - 03/09/10 02:28 AM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: BeeKay]
Glenn Treibitz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 598
Loc: Los Angeles/Burbank
I will just second and third the consensus here. Lovely American sounding pianos that have their own sound are well built and if you decide it's the piano don't worry at all about your choice.
_________________________
Glenn Treibitz

Hollywood Piano Co. - Est.1928
http://www.hollywoodpiano.com
http://www.facebook.com/HollywoodPiano

1800 MY-PIANO

Grotrian, Mason&Hamlin, Estonia,Schulze Pollmann,Albert Weber,Baldwin,Brodmann,
Ritmuller,Weber,Hardman,Roland,Kurzweil, Used Steinway,Yamaha,Kawai

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#1391909 - 03/09/10 05:01 AM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: charleslang]
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
The clarity of the bass which the Walter grands designer mentioned results from their bass wires having a longer-than-normal backscale. (The rep can show that to you.) This causes the Walter grands to play larger than their size. These pianos also use a bass cutoff. (Again, the rep can show that to you.) This should increase the clarity of the mids.

Based only on posts, the smaller piano may sound a little livelier.

Re Del's point about matching piano to room, pianos can be voiced, rooms can be voiced. If you should prefer the 190 but think that it might be too powerful for the room, its volume can be reduced. I have a detailed post about how to do that. If you should want advice about reducing volume, I should be able to dig it up.

In any case please try to audition these pianos on full stick. That's the way, IMO, that grands should be played.

Room acoustics matter. If you audition pianos in the typical crowded, carpeted showroom which has a high ceiling, all pianos will sound louder in the typical home.







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#1391915 - 03/09/10 05:29 AM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: FogVilleLad]
zxcjason Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 166
Loc: Vancouver, BC
Del, what is considered a mid-size room? My living room is 22" X 15" X 9", hardwood floor, with openings to the dining room and upstairs. Do you think the 190 will be too powerful for the room without voicing down the volume?

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#1391961 - 03/09/10 07:46 AM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: BeeKay]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3339
I enjoy the Walter grands immensely. They're great pianos, and you're helping a small American business by buying one! One day, I hope Walter builds something between 7'-9'.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#1391978 - 03/09/10 08:16 AM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: beethoven986]
SeilerFan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 746
Aside from their quality, I think it's pretty darn cool to have a Charles Walter grand rather than a Yamaha or Kawai. Sorry, no offense, Yamaha and Kawai grand owners. However, people will look at your grand and will say "Charles Who...? I only knew of Yamaha and Steinway. Didn't know that there are other pianos out there." But wait until they try that piano! They will then remember that name for sure.

If I had to compare the CW to M&H and S&S, I'd say it is probably closer to M&H as it has more of a silver tone. The S&S is more of a golden tone. Of course, the Walter grands sound their own. It's clear that they don't copy another make.

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#1391993 - 03/09/10 08:41 AM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: SeilerFan]
Russ Roberts Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/02/09
Posts: 242
Loc: Texas
And of course in that exact price range--you could try out the Estonia L168 and L190! smile And no, I am not an Estonia dealer--I only play one on TV.

Russ
_________________________
Estonia L190--Serial # 7117
Ragtime should never be played fast--Scott Joplin

Repertoire (Ready for Carnegie Hall smile ): Fur Elise; Beethoven Minuet in G; Chopin: Prelude 28-7; Joplin: The Entertainer

Polishing: Chopin: Waltz in A minor (Post)

Working: Brahms: Waltz 39-15; Chopin: Albumblatt

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#1392010 - 03/09/10 09:10 AM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: Russ Roberts]
gutenberg Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 380
Loc: Wichita, Kansas
Had the pleasure of playing a Walter 175 side by side with an Estonia 168. Both have their points but for me it was easily the 175. Love that tight bass. The Walter 190 though is a piano that has it all. Tight bass, singing treble, and brooding tenor. You can't go wrong.


Edited by gutenberg (03/09/10 09:13 AM)

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#1392014 - 03/09/10 09:19 AM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: gutenberg]
Russ Roberts Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/02/09
Posts: 242
Loc: Texas
gutenberg: As you probably have seen, there have been several recent discussions of the meaning of different words to describe piano tone. Don't want to hijack this thread too far in that direction--but what do you mean by a "tight" bass? Thanks in advance.

Also, Charles Walter was one of the short list of 3 pianos I wanted to try before buying the Estonia (Estonia, Walter, and M&H--although the latter was out of my price range)--but we couldn't find any near enough to try out.

Russ
_________________________
Estonia L190--Serial # 7117
Ragtime should never be played fast--Scott Joplin

Repertoire (Ready for Carnegie Hall smile ): Fur Elise; Beethoven Minuet in G; Chopin: Prelude 28-7; Joplin: The Entertainer

Polishing: Chopin: Waltz in A minor (Post)

Working: Brahms: Waltz 39-15; Chopin: Albumblatt

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#1392015 - 03/09/10 09:20 AM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: gutenberg]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
a woman here in KC used to sell them.. out of my price range at the time, I yearned for one.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1392021 - 03/09/10 09:31 AM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: Russ Roberts]
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1530
Loc: Danville, California
Originally Posted By: Russ Roberts
And of course in that exact price range--you could try out the Estonia L168 and L190! smile And no, I am not an Estonia dealer--I only play one on TV.

Russ


Play what - an Estonia or a dealer?

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#1392035 - 03/09/10 09:41 AM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: Furtwangler]
Russ Roberts Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/02/09
Posts: 242
Loc: Texas
Furtwangler: Yes.
_________________________
Estonia L190--Serial # 7117
Ragtime should never be played fast--Scott Joplin

Repertoire (Ready for Carnegie Hall smile ): Fur Elise; Beethoven Minuet in G; Chopin: Prelude 28-7; Joplin: The Entertainer

Polishing: Chopin: Waltz in A minor (Post)

Working: Brahms: Waltz 39-15; Chopin: Albumblatt

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#1392038 - 03/09/10 09:44 AM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: Russ Roberts]
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1530
Loc: Danville, California
Oh - thanks

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#1392095 - 03/09/10 11:31 AM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: Russ Roberts]
gutenberg Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 380
Loc: Wichita, Kansas
Russ, I'll try. For me, tight means the bass tones are there when you need them and are pure and fundamental. Defined and controllable.

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#1392117 - 03/09/10 12:00 PM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: zxcjason]
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5306
Loc: Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted By: zxcjason
Del, what is considered a mid-size room? My living room is 22" X 15" X 9", hardwood floor, with openings to the dining room and upstairs. Do you think the 190 will be too powerful for the room without voicing down the volume?

Probably not. But "room size" is relative—a large room to one might be a small room to another both visually and acoustically.

We are accustomed to comparing the size of grands strictly on the measure of their length. But this is only part of the story. Pianos also have width and aesthetic bulk. When I laid out the scales and drew the rims on both of these pianos I wanted them to be a compact as possible given their length and their acoustical requirements. Consequently they are narrower than average by several inches. Their “waists” tuck in rather sooner than most; that is, the treble curve is set closer to the front of the piano so the length of the straight treble arm is shorter.

In the modern home it is rare to find a room that can be dedicated specifically to the creation of music so many pianos these days must compete for space with a variety of other activities. It seemed appropriate to reduce both the floor space and the aesthetic bulk of the pianos to their practical minimum. I’d rather put floor space into length than into excess width that provides no musical benefit. For what it’s worth, the actual floor space taken up by the Walter 175 (5’ 9”) grand is actually less than that taken up by a competitive 5’ 6” grand. And there are some grands under six feet that take up more space than the Walter 190 (6’ 3”) grand. The difference in aesthetic bulk is not as obvious in the typical (relatively large) piano showroom but it is readily apparent in the average living room where the piano must share space with any number of other furniture pieces and activity centers.

The Walter 190 is a fairly versatile instrument. It was the first of the Walter grands and for some time it was the only Walter grand. I designed it to accommodate as broad a market as possible. The 175 is a more targeted design. It is designed specifically to fit into a smaller physical and acoustical space. It can comfortably fit into a space that might otherwise accommodate a somewhat shorter, but wider and "thicker," piano. I wanted to create a piano that could be played at forte levels with the lid up without inflicting hearing damage either to the performer or her listeners. At the other extreme I wanted a warm and smooth pianissimo. The idea being that a broad dynamic range is more important to the long-term interests of the owners than is sheer power in the showroom.

ddf
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

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#1392128 - 03/09/10 12:12 PM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: Del]
Russ Roberts Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/02/09
Posts: 242
Loc: Texas
Thanks, gutenberg. I am used to thinking of bass as "dark" or "growling"--or even "pure"--"Tight was one adjective I had not heard.

I also had not heard Del's term "aesthetic bulk" but it is very desciptive, and one my wife, as an amateur decorator with impeccable taste would agree with. Our L190 is, I believe (Del could correct me on this) much wider throughout the curve--and has what I believe is termed a "wide tail." It looked tiny in the showroom among the Steinways--especially the "B" s, but, when put in the place our 4-9 Settergren had occupied--it's presence was almost overwhelming. So was it's sound--at first.

One thing that was very important to my wife "e" was the proportions of the case and the thickness of the legs--which she maintains should be thicker as opposed to thinner--even on a medium to smaller grand. I really never thought about that.

Russ
_________________________
Estonia L190--Serial # 7117
Ragtime should never be played fast--Scott Joplin

Repertoire (Ready for Carnegie Hall smile ): Fur Elise; Beethoven Minuet in G; Chopin: Prelude 28-7; Joplin: The Entertainer

Polishing: Chopin: Waltz in A minor (Post)

Working: Brahms: Waltz 39-15; Chopin: Albumblatt

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#1392144 - 03/09/10 12:40 PM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: Del]
Roy123 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 1715
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Del
I wanted to create a piano that could be played at forte levels with the lid up without inflicting hearing damage either to the performer or her listeners. At the other extreme I wanted a warm and smooth pianissimo. The idea being that a broad dynamic range is more important to the long-term interests of the owners than is sheer power in the showroom.

ddf


It's a crying shame that more manufacturers don't have similar goals. I am tired of the notion that powerful, i.e., LOUD, pianos are better. I regret that bright, harsh tone is the norm. I've wanted to buy a new piano for a long time, but continue to use my mediocre upright because I can't find a piano within my budget that has the warm pianissimo and broad dynamic range that Del speaks about.

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#1392146 - 03/09/10 12:43 PM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: Russ Roberts]
zxcjason Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 166
Loc: Vancouver, BC
Del, thank you for your reply. I really enjoyed playing the Walters (esp the 190), and it's such a pleasure to hear their designer speak.

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#1392163 - 03/09/10 12:55 PM Re: Charles Walter grand piano opinions [Re: Russ Roberts]
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5306
Loc: Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted By: Russ Roberts
I also had not heard Del's term "aesthetic bulk" but it is very desciptive, and one my wife, as an amateur decorator with impeccable taste would agree with. Our L190 is, I believe (Del could correct me on this) much wider throughout the curve--and has what I believe is termed a "wide tail." It looked tiny in the showroom among the Steinways--especially the "B" s, but, when put in the place our 4-9 Settergren had occupied--it's presence was almost overwhelming. So was it's sound--at first.

The Steinway B is a good example of what I’m talking about. Even though it was designed during an era when competitive pianos were getting wider and bulkier the B is relatively narrow both across the keyboard and the tail. And, while other pianos have at least equaled the performance—many are arguably superior—the B has remained a long-term favorite among both pianists and decorators. I am convinced that its svelte aesthetic has played a significant role in its popularity over the years. (Incidentally, all of the shorter Steinway models share this trait. They are all some on the narrow side.)

A piano’s appearance in the typical showroom can be deceptive. A few extra inches of width don’t really stand out all that much. When you have to walk around those inches in a small room they can—and often do—become significant.

ddf
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

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