Do you think there is a relationship(similar feeling)between technical accomplishment on the piano and sports? I don't mean this in a competitive way...more like feeling the same when you hit a great Federer like forehand as one might when they perform a technically difficult piece well.

Absolutely. And your choice if analogy is particularly apt, since the thought that flew into my head was "The Inner Game of Tennis." It's the same thing, IMO.

No, in my case there isn't.

I don't play in order to have technical accomplishments, but to make beautiful music (as far as I can given my limited abilities). I have a great feeling when I play satisfactorily in that respect.

Of course, if I have a technical difficulty and finally overcome it, I'm glad, but it's because I've removed an obstacle to the objective, not because I've achieved my purpose.

The adrenaline rush is likely similar --except with piano you're not reliant on any another player/athlete /team to contribute to a spectacular play.

Yes. Beauty in motion = Beauty in motion.

Do you mean this from a spectator's or performer's point of view?

Piano is most like golf. You are on your own (no one playing defense) and you can play by yourself, You can play different courses (pieces), with variety of different golf clubs (pianos)and you can enjoy it no matter your skill level (handicap).

Some physical aspects are easy that most people can readly do like playing single notes (putting).

As more advanced piansts can play more difficult repertoire, so can advanced golfers play tougher courses. Beginners have no business playing Pebble Beach or the Appassionata!

The many specialty shots.... being able to hit the ball high, low, curve it (L to R or R to L),sand play, chipping, wedges etc) relate to the varied techniques on the keyboard, (stacatto, glissandos, chromatic runs).

My golf handicap is an 8....just about the same as my piano handicap.

So to the OP, I would say yes. There have been times that I have shot even par, and the satisfaction is similar to playing a big piece well.

Stanza-- One could argue that piano is as addictive ( and can be as expensive) as golf as well

Clearly, you don't spend enough time watching professional bowling.

That's true. I am busted. I don't watch bowling. I wasn't really trying to imply that ALL sports require a certain element of participation by others--just most of them( and definitely tennis ,which was the example given).

Well I play both tennis and piano, and I definitly think there is such a relationship. When you really focus on what you are doing, it usually becomes as you and the instrument CONNECT in a way that allows you to control it the way you Want and Feel.

Seems to be an obsession in America, this comparison with sports.

Actually, the similarities between musical performance and athletic performance is a common theme in the the study of expertise. The Cambridge Handbook of Expertise and Expert Performance (2006) has a section for "Arts, Sports, & Motor Skills" where the authors review psychological studies in music, sports, acting, dance, and other types of perceptual-motor expertise. From what I have been able to read in this area, there are certainly differences between these various skills, but there are also common themes revolving around cognitive strategies for practice and performance.

Both I think.

I've studied a "traditional" (whatever that means) martial art for 5-1/2 years and have been taking piano lessons with a teacher for about 7 months. I am constantly amazed at how much piano resembles martial arts, in the amount of practice it takes to learn a piano piece or karate kata, how you can ALWAYS get better, and how they can both be lifelong pursuits if you choose them to be. In both disciplines, the more you study any one particular piece or kata, the more you find within the piece and yourself. I also find that I get tripped up by the same things in both disciplines. "No, your OTHER right Shawn."

For me it is very different. Sports is about winning and a win is a win even if it is an ugly win. An ugly musical performance is never a good thing.

Ultra competetiveness in music is great for developing technique but it can make you forget why you are playing music in the first place.

In what area of human activity is this not the case? I don't see the interest of such a constatation. If you say, as pianoloverus does, to compare "technical accomplishment" in one thing and another, well then obviously there is a relationship.

True, however, I haven't seen any posts mentioning Tiger Woods in some time. Since he got caught with his pants down, so to speak.

Unfortunately.

The fatal error is that music is not a skill in which one can acquire expertise; it is an art, and real expertise in that cannot be measured. But hey, doing studies (and studying studies) earn people money...

I think there are so many ways playing the piano is like excellence in any other physically accomplished pursuit, and I really agree with the analogy to golf.

On the other hand, I disagree strongly about the competitive nature of sport - my husband delights in playing golf each weekend and there's no sense of competing with anyone but himself - he's enjoying the company of his fellows golfers and he's also focussing on improving his own game, much like playing in a string quartet, I would imagine, only possibly the sense of camaraderie might be spoilt by the ugly necessity to perfect the performance at the expense of enjoyment :-)

The biggest analogy with sport, in my opinion, would come with the sense of flow and being in the moment that is a hallmark of a memorable performance.

Playing piano, you compete against yourself?



Really!

So(if one cannot acquire expertise) all those people practicing and taking lessons and giving lessons are wasting their time? Just because piano playing can't be measured in the same way as the length of a golf drive deosn't mean it's not a skill that can be acquired. IMO both technical and musical skill can be acquired.

Fortunately, not all real artists agree. Roger Chaffin (a cognitive psychologist) has published a book and a number of articles summarizing his work on expert memory and practice with the pianist Gabriela Imreh. This work was initiated by Imreh herself because she "recognized that ideas in the cognitive psychology of expertise were not just pertinent to her work as a musician, but were actually helpful in her practice" (Series Editor's Foreword in Practicing Perfection by Chaffin, Imreh, & Crawford).

Art is just as susceptible to empirical study as any other form of human experience or behavior.

Hmmm... ??

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...tml#Post1374770

I guess I find a connection between the two!

Definitely! I think some people are missing your point here, because they're emphasizing the competitive nature of sports. I'm thinking more of the rush you get when you hit that tennis shot just right. I don't get that feeling too often when I'm playing the piano, but the other day I played a piece for my mom, and I nailed it! It felt just perfect, and when I finished, I had to restrain myself from jumping up off the bench and pumping my fist in the air.

Anybody play the golfophone?

I agree with Mary Bee... I think those that have brought the competitive nature of sport into this have missed the point. As a former gymnast - I equate the feeling of getting a particular move just right... the feeling in the air... the perfect landing - to the feeling when you play something just right. It's not just about the technical aspect... but something that transcends all that. When you know that something is more than just the sum of its parts.

FIrstly, the use of the word 'competing' was in the context of deconstructing the term! My intention was not to say that when one practices and performs on the piano that one is in any kind of competition, although, funny I should use that word 'competition' in relation to pianists......... Isn't that how the whole professional soloist/recitalist end of the spectrum operates???

I do think that one is 'competing' with oneself when playing the piano in that one is looking for improvement - just as in golf one seeks to improve one's skills and reduce one's handicap. Pianists do celebrate the things they have learned to do, and enjoy increased facility with their instrument as a result.

And the second quote of mine is about the sense of playing together that is achieved in an ensemble. Of course, if you don't enjoy the company of those you play with then it will be much like doing a round of the golf course in bad company.....

Then it isn't art, but mere skill.

Of course, one does needs skill to play piano well, or to excel in sports, or, for that matter, bake a really good cake. But that's not the art.

Sadly in Australia sporting brillance is viewed as the ultimate achievement by many quarters of teh community. Musical ability and the arts in general, are not given the funding or recognition that they deserve...

Must run, plane to catch

M

Technique and interpretation are both important in art. Both have and will continue to be studied functionally, cognitively, and empirically. You can certainly claim that any such study reduces art to mere skill as a matter of definition. Fortunately, that doesn't make it so.