Sorry, not trying to be mean, was just bored

Classical music tends to be too long for people today who have grown up with 3min popular music. In years past there was less competition for your entertainment, now we have a wider variety of music, AND big time sports, recreational sports, movies, computer gaming, bookstores and libraries full books, all readily accessible.


Also there is way too much emphasis on voice, witness American Idol, and the lack of instrumental music played on the radio. In the 50s-70s there would be many popular instrumentals played, (Love is Blue, Spanish Flea, Frankenstein, Hocus Pocus, ELO's Fire on High, etc.) Not no more.....

One thing though, people appreciate skill, and are as impressed by someone juggling bowling pins as playing La Campanella. So someone might say they "don't like classical music" but take them to a live concert or play them a "showstopper" and they will like it.

Switched on Bach was a novelty act. It died along with the majority of the synth-pop movement, and had nothing to do with a conspiracy of classical musicians. The blueprints for classical music are inexpensive and there's no id required to play or buy it. There's a lot of electric music still around. Claire de Lune on Theremin

Changing the instruments doesn't make classical music more consumable. Classical music doesn't exist to be consumed, it is music for it's own sake. It's like asking why more people eat McDonald hamburgers than apples. Apples exist to be apples, while McDonald hamburgers exist to be bought and eaten.

well maybe you're right appleman, but I think the problem with classical is how self-satisfied it is.

Look you want me to tell you want you want to hear?

The reason that nobody listens to classical music is because people are ignorant foolish american-idol worshipers with no taste, while we, the classical music lovers are refined, sophisticated and we have taste in music which is so much above the rest of the people.

Now ask yourself if that's really the problem. Or maybe the problem with classical music is that it deliberately pushes regular folk away with snobbishness?

Maybe classical music lovers don't want their music to be more popular.

Do you remember the whole punk movement? When it went mainstream with the clash and the ramones punks hated how their music had been co-opted by regular people, and that was the start of the straight-edge movement with bands like minor threat and slipknot with the screaming and trashing, it's just not as easy to listen to as early punk, even the sex pistols was easy to listen to.

Sometimes musicians and audiences like a certain kind of music because it's rather unpopular and they go out of their way to keep it so. And this reinforces in the audiences mind how special and superior they are to people that don't listen to their own brand of music.

With the large amount of music that is now ubiquitously available, the musical market is very fragmented. Because of this reason, it can be misleading to apply broad categorizations to different types of music. Classical music can mean different things to different people. If one takes it to mean the masterpieces written by great composers in history that have stood the test of time, then there clearly is a significant following for this music across the world. If one takes it to mean all music written in the classical tradition (and not just by the famous composers), then much of it is not popular or well known. If one only considers music written in the past 30 years or so, then contemporary classical music is clearly not well known or appreciated by a large audience.

Since there is so much to choose from, it can be expected that people are going to have a diversity of tastes. In classical music, both popularity and merit are heavily skewed towards a short list of composers. We see the same phenomenon on this forum. Despite the huge number of piano composers throughout the history of the keyboard, the bulk of the discussions focus on works by the same set of composers (Chopin, Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, Liszt, Rachmaninoff, Brahms, Schubert, Schumann, Debussy, etc.).

Classical music covers a wide range of styles and composers. The top composers in history, such as Mozart, Beethoven, and Bach, are musical icons whose music has been popular for centuries and is appreciated by many different cultures.

The enduring popularity their music is beyond dispute. The unique position that these composers occupy is not only due to artistic merit as judged by critics but also because there music has been popular across many generations. Furthermore, the popularity of these composers has spread far from their homelands to cultures across the world. I have never seen recording sales categorized by composer (only by recording artist). However, I would surmise that it we had statistics on recorded minutes of music sold since the advent of commercial recordings grouped by composer across all genres of music, the sales for the top composers would be extremely high. Sheet music sales for music written by the great masters are also quite high . Recordings of just about all major classical works are easily available on the Web. The number of really good classical performers in the world is at an all-time, and in many parts of the world, it is relatively easy to find a good live classical music concert which very likely is played at a much higher level than the composer was exposed to in his lifetime due to the high level of today’s performers.

However, the vast majority of composers are not well known. In terms of contemporary music, people writing in the classical tradition are completely overshadowed by both people producing popular music as well as the great classical composers of the past. The public likes to see living people create new music. However, if the classical music community cannot agree on any contemporary composers as being great, how can the general public be expected to show much interest in contemporary classical composers?

No matter how good the 10-20 greatest composers are, it isn’t feasible to expect that their music will be universally preferred over the countless others who have written music over the years, many of them still living. There is simply too much music out there and too much of a diversity of tastes to expect such a consensus to develop.

The bottom line is that if you are a fan of classical music written by the great masters, the availability of great live and recorded performances is better now than at any time in history. The level of teachers is probably at an all time high as well, and the amount of knowledge available on these composers keeps growing. There is too much music across many different styles and cultures for any one type of music to be the favorite of everyone. Furthermore, the popularity of classical music is highly skewed in favor of a small number of composers (none of them from the present). Still, if the one looks at the fact that Mozart, Beethoven, Bach, and a few other great composers have won the popularity contest over time and across different cultures, this suggests that in the long run, public opinion can get it right.

Well if I may comment here, maybe there are just so many other gadgets and things available that are taking the attention away from classical music. And when I think of classical music, white wigs and dust come to mind!

Was given free tickets to attend a classical concert the other day, and the average age of people who attended was 94! (I'm being kind! The actual age of those attending was more like 98!

So I sat through the program and hated every minute of it! Then they were to stand up and give a standing ovation! I couldn't do it, because I hated every minute of it and I didn't care that some of those in attendance were glaring at me. Why would I pretend to like it when I didn't!

I gave it a shot! And won't put myself through that sort of pain again!

Went home and got my ipod and calmed myself by listening to the beatles!

Just my take! Take it or leave it!

I think there is a some truth in that. Many classical concert goers would be pretty unhappy if the crowds who flock to see Miley Cyrus suddenly showed up in the same numbers for classical music especially if they expressed their appreciation for the classical music in the same unrestrained manner as they did at the Miley shows.

No
That is not what I believe at all.


That is possible, although I've been to quite a few orchestra events that do not.
Straight Edge was born out of Hardcore punk and not doing drugs of any kind.

Are you saying the Dead Kennedys, AxCx or The Mr. T Experience are not approachable?

I'd also like to point out that the studio recordings of the Ramones are not as they perform them live. They use different tempos for each song AND they actually sing the entire song. A true Ramones performance every song is exactly the same tempo.(ONE! TWO! THREE! FOUR!)

I agree with you up to a point.

Let's face it, there's no anti-Liberace committee. There's no one stopping someone from releasing Chopin's etudes all quarter notes and all even toned, and people have. There's no one stopping people from jazzing up classical.

The small number of classical listeners is just as helpless as Minor Threat fans from stopping a popular movement in music. If there was such a market that the small number of classical listeners are keeping it down, it hasn't stopped musicians from releasing CDs nor common people from going to the record store.

The small number of classical listeners is just as helpless as Minor Threat fans from stopping a popular movement in music. If there was such a market that the small number of classical listeners are keeping it down, it hasn't stopped musicians from releasing CDs nor common people from going to the record store.

good point. classical music's imprints are of course all over pop music.

have you seen They by Jem?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4DXz4FmrDA

It has a sample from the band Swingle Singer's 1963 version of Bach's Prelude in F Minor from Book 2 of the well tempered clavier.

stuff like this happens all the time where pop artists merge classical & pop. But notice it doesnt go in the other direction, which is my point. Classical music lovers dont like their classical music contaminated with hip hop.

People do listen to classical music; it is just that the perceptions toward classical music differ quite a lot across countries/societies and over time.

In the following link, you will find that classical music is growing strong in France: http://www.artsjournal.com/slippeddisc/2009/06/

London, Salzberg, Hong Kong, and many other cities also reported good numbers for many years in a row.

I think when we talk about the lack of interest in classical music, it will be useful for the discussion to focus on the core of the issue: why classical music is not viewed to be cool, interesting, or enjoyable in the U.S.

Frankly, I don't really care how many people listen to classical music.

I do know this: as long as I am alive there will be at least one.

Hmmm. To the OP, I think it is very interesting that these artists that come and go in less than 2 years time never get remembered 100 years (Barber), 200 years (Chopin, Liszt, and Schumann), or over 250 years (Mozart), after they're alive.

I have no problem with today's music (even though 90% of it really is crap), but I do have a problem when people listen to today's music, praise IT,and say classical music is "boring" or "lame".

Yes, if Black Sabbath is still around and being played in 200 years - I might start paying attention.
The biggest problem with that possibility is that it's impossible - nobody can do an exact reproduction of Black Sabbath's singer, guitar players, etc. in 200 years except with a recording - not in a performance. Of course, the same could be argued for classical, but we can at least replicate it to an almost perfect reproduction of the original score - barring changes in instruments and bad interpretations.

My favorite example might be "The Graduation song" by Vitamin C, which is Pachelbel's Canon with words. :P


Don't Dvorak, Greig or Gershwin count? Classical music is filled with composers who borrow from folk and dance tunes.

Let's face it. There's seventeen minimalist composers in the United States, yet I can't walk out my front door without tripping on a "future" rap star.(Granted, I live on 8 mile) The amount of classical composers is small and the amount of work they produce is tiny. It's not that classical music won't produced a Hip Hop version, it's just that there isn't one yet.

Cage was accepted as a classical composer. I'm pretty that is proof enough that the bar is low enough for a rap classical composer.

I agree with LillyLady (much earlier in the thread). I am a good example of having developed the love of classical music--if not the ability to render it well.

She said: "Exposure." And I agree. I grew up in the early days of Elvis and the birth of Rock and Roll. A part of me desperately needed to love it in order to be cool.

But what I had heard literally from birth was classical music and the Big Band sounds of World War II. And to this day, that is what I love listening to. I can't tell you the name of a single member of Creedence Clearwater or The Rolling Stones (except of course for one guy.)

What you keep is what you learn very early.

Russ

I don't often post, and even less often post simply trying to ruffle feathers.

But it seems to me that many the people replying to this thread have embodied the perception that people who listen to classical music are elitist snobs.

This 'perceived culture' is most certainly NOT welcoming to new listeners. Imagine some person who really enjoys hip hop or R&B or even disco. Whatever, it doesn't matter. But, through some stroke of luck, they hear a recording of the final movement of Beethoven's 5th piano concerto. So, they search the internet, and lo and behold are led to PW.

And then, suppose, that this is the first thread they read.

Where they are essentially insulted for listening to anything beyond the scope of classical music.

Obviously, if this supposed person absolutely fell in love with the work, they would most likely not be led astray, and would probably develop a love for classical music.

But, most probably, they would never venture further into the 'repertoire'. Thus, there would be one less person listening to classical music.

And what about people who may not 'get it' right away (when listening to classical music). Then, after reading this thread, or others like it, they may feel stupid for not getting it. So then, why would they continue to listen??

Classical music may never be 'mainstream'. And, it probably most likely will never completely 'die out'. I mean, you can still go into a store and get a Gregorian Chant CD, right ?? And without checking facts, that style is almost certainly more obscure than what we are classifying as classical music.

Besides that, and I've seen this in other replies, there can be many reasons to like, or not like, any sort of music. Most probably almost as many reasons as there are people who listen. Thus, I believe that trying to justify why people don't listen to classical music, especially in the manner seen in this thread, is quite bigoted.

My point is, the whole air of self importance which seemingly surrounds classical music may or may not hurt the 'health' of the classical music listening community. But it certainly DOES NOT help it.


EDIT: Just in case there may be some hard feelings, I'll leave you with this :

JR: I agree with you--but as something of an old-timer, I don't think the snobbishness (or the appearance thereof) is as bad as it used to be. In the 'fifties and 'sixties it was hard to find anyone in the audience at a major concert who wasn't wearing a Brooks Brothers suit or a fur--and sitting with their nose in the air acting as though they actually had some idea of what was goin on on the stage. And from my relatively few contacts with Orchestra members and soloists, it is my impression that something of an elitest attitude permeated the artists as well.

I suspect that among serious younger musicians today, that is much less the case.

Russ

They would if they heard this music by Ennio Morricone



Tuco's the man!

Nothing stays popular for very long. No one I know dresses the way they did 200+ years ago. Liking popular music and not understanding why others don't is analogous to dressing like it's 1750 and wondering why everyone else is so ridiculous for wearing modern clothes.

Pop music is very different now than it was in the 80s. The world changes, people change, what they like changes.

I think there's also a snobby, holy than thou attitude around it that turns people a lot of people off. Why do you have to get all dressed up to go see the symphony? I mean, why can't you sit there with a hat that holds 2 cold beers?

I do like classical, btw.

No rules about it as far as I've noticed. But here are a few of my own devising

[1] If you want to look like most of the others, then dress up a little.

[2] If you don't care about looking like most of the others, then wear what you like.

[3] If one or two people stare at you and it bothers you, then you apparently do care, so see rule[1]

You are not alone, Perhaps Chopin felt the same why as you about Bach and hence the reason did not write or play in Bach's style.

The thing to remember is that Chopin did not write hundred year old music, He wrote what he thought was "contemporary music"

So what's so unusual about people today not liking very old music. Most of the best musicians and composers over the centuries did not like old music either. Nothing really has changed.




That said, I'm working on learning something that is a few centuries old.

Chopin didn't write in Bach's style but he loved Bach and Bach's influence is very apparent in Chopin's counterpoint.

Then why does he run like a girl? :-)

To get back on topic, I like good music. Whether that is Beethoven, Captain Beefheart, Slim Whitman or Eric Dolphy, doesn't matter. It's all good.

I second this question. Rhetorically. I believe last time I went I wore a t-shirt and jeans, which got me a few stares >_>

In my case it is because my wife makes me. I would just as soon wear comfortable clothes, which I have seen plenty of in the audience. She makes me get dressed up for going to the theater and jazz clubs, too.

Not too sure that is entirely accurate ...

Rachmaninoff, when taken to task for being popular with the public, replied (I may paraphrase; this is from memory), "If more classical performers played for audiences, there would be more of an audience for classical music."

He intended it in the sense of, taking into account what audiences want to hear, and also in the sense of the performer's paying attention to how the audience responds during the performance. You could contrast it with the title and attitude expressed in the article on contemporary music (serialism, etc.), "Who Cares if You Listen."

I wish I could find this passage, to quote it more fully. It is in the biography Bertensson and Leyda, "Sergei Rachmaninoff, A Lifetime in Music," originally published in 1956 by New York University Press, reissued in 2001 by Indiana University Press. 446pp, ISBN 978-0-253-21421-8. A readable and very worthwhile book. I like musician bios very much, but there aren't many I could see myself going back to and reading again for pleasure. This one: yes.

He was a very dedicated performer who, in a sense, lived for the concert platform and took in vitality from his interaction with the audience. He said that even though touring was exhausting work, the experience of performing of such a magnitude and value for him that it was what kept him going, and that his one prayer was that he might be able to work right up to the end of his days.

It's not hard to understand why audiences loved someone like this, and kept coming back.

No, it's not - one just has to pick up a book like "Composers on Music" or just analyze the music itself to see how much they adored their predecessors. Not all of them, of course (Debussy was certainly vocal about the past).
If they hated their predecessors so much, classical music would have evolved and devloped into something different much more quickly than it has.

"There are two kinds of people in the world, my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig."

I love those movies...

Me too! And out of all the 'pasta' westerns, "The Good, The Bad, & The Ugly" is the best me thinks! Great lines of dialogue too. Like the one you just referenced. Eli Wallach should have won an award for that role.