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#1392295 - 03/09/10 03:37 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: shaulhadar]
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 1418
Loc: Essex, England
ChopinAddict - as someone who has struggled at Polish evening-classes without much success I am grateful to you for pointing out this admirable on-line course. I'm certainly intending to dip into it!

JAS - I love your sense of humour, a quality I have observed in every one of the Poles I have met (which sadly number few).

Shaulhadar - Like you I wonder if there are some items left behind by Chopin which lie hidden in some way. I am pretty sure there are some letters in existence, for example. Not so sure about compositions; I think they would have come to light already but we can hope!
_________________________
Best wishes from MR
http://www.extraloudpurrs.co.uk
http://www.chopinrecital.org

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#1392623 - 03/10/10 02:19 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Elene]
J.A.S Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 279
Loc: Warsaw, Poland
Originally Posted By: Elene
A person singing in Polish, as opposed to vowel-intensive Italian, would see why I am complaining about lack of vowels! Yes, Polish has them, but it likes to use strings of consonants and is pretty stingy with inserting those vowels.

Julian Tuwim, a great Polish poet with a good sense of humor, was asked once in another country whether it was true that the Polish language contained many "rustling" or fricative consonants and consonant clusters.

--"Not at all," he answered. "Here's a typical Polish sentence:
Hulali po polu i pili kakao."
_________________________
J.A.S

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#1392634 - 03/10/10 02:50 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: ChopinAddict]
J.A.S Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 279
Loc: Warsaw, Poland
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
Originally Posted By: Elene


But your English seems to be better than a lot of native speakers', so if you do want to lay claim to some sort of linguistic talent, I won't argue with you!


I was thinking the same... Where did you learn English, J.A.S.?

Given that I just wrote in a previous post:
Originally Posted By: J.A.S
has took her hat off [ shocked ]

I think you both are excessively kind (I made last-second changes and failed to proofread frown ).

I have no formal training in English except for a two-year course at the Uni and this shows through here and there. I use English in my work, though.

Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
I studied 5 languages

Now that is a talent!
_________________________
J.A.S

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#1392863 - 03/10/10 12:26 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: J.A.S]
Elene Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1245
Loc: the holographic universe
Originally Posted By: J.A.S

--"Not at all," he answered. "Here's a typical Polish sentence:
Hulali po polu i pili kakao."


Yeah, that sentence sounds almost like Hawaiian!

Seriously, J.A.S., despite mistakes, your English is quite impressive.

ChopinAddict, what 5 languages did you study, and what was your major? That sounds extremely challenging-- but fun.

I've been looking at the online Polish course. My goodness, that author is into a lot of subjects! Another person who apparently never gets around to sleeping. The page on pronunciation is fascinating but daunting. I'm not used to thinking in terms of sonorants, velars, etc. I did think I could pronounce Y properly (thought it was like short I in English), but apparently even that is more complicated than I could have dreamed.... But I'm allowed to have an accent, aren't I?

Elene
_________________________
SPOCK/PICARD 2012

Blog: http://elenedom.wordpress.com
Website: http://kuanyin.elenelistens.com




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#1392886 - 03/10/10 01:11 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Elene]
Chopin4life Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/09
Posts: 194
Loc: UK
English is my first language. I know a reasonable (probably not by your standards) amount of French and Spanish (well, last year at least, I've stopped Spanish since), a couple of words/phrases of Italian (chi porte il conto? (sp?)), and perhaps a single word of Chinese (don't ask me to spell it wink ) and German.

Pronunciation of Spanish is quite straightforward. Basically, pronounce every letter. There are, of course, some exceptions. For example, double 'l' is pronounced as a 'y' sound and words ending in 'dad' are generally pronounced more like 'dath'. These are only a few, and these are still rules. I can't think of any off the top of my head that are complete exception that follow no rule, like there are in English. This said, I haven't studied Spanish for about a year so I'm pretty rusty, especially on verb conjugation, and this information probably isn't 100% accurate.

I'm still in school, so my English isn't perfect either wink
_________________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." - Frédéric Chopin

"Hats off gentlemen, a genius!" - Schumann on Chopin

"Chopin is the greatest of them all, for through the piano alone he discovered everything" - Debussy on Chopin


Venables & Son 152

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#1393013 - 03/10/10 04:14 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Elene]
ChopinAddict Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 4521
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Originally Posted By: Elene

ChopinAddict, what 5 languages did you study, and what was your major? That sounds extremely challenging-- but fun.
Elene


English, German, Italian, Spanish and French... No exotic languages unfortunately, but they were fun nevertheless. I bought some self-study books to learn Chinese, but never found the time to read them... blush I am particularly interested in the characters they use rather than the language itself. They are fascinating. For "forget" for example they use "die" and "heart", like something that dies in the heart...
_________________________



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#1393033 - 03/10/10 04:38 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: ChopinAddict]
ChopinAddict Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 4521
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Does anybody know if Kathleen is OK? I just went to her profile and noticed she has not been online since her loss....
_________________________



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#1393572 - 03/11/10 10:43 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: ChopinAddict]
Elene Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1245
Loc: the holographic universe
I'll write to Kathleen right now.

Later: Kathleen says she is "sort of OK" and will be back when she feels up to it.

Just BTW, the pronunciation of Spanish varies a bit from country to country.

Elene


Edited by Elene (03/11/10 11:29 AM)
Edit Reason: update
_________________________
SPOCK/PICARD 2012

Blog: http://elenedom.wordpress.com
Website: http://kuanyin.elenelistens.com




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#1393685 - 03/11/10 01:27 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Elene]
ChopinAddict Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 4521
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
I know... I was 6 months in South America with a grant and picked up their accent according to what they said, although I also have Spanish friends.

I am glad Kathleen is OK, I understand her need to stay away from the Internet for awhile. Give her my warmest regards. heart
_________________________



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#1394379 - 03/12/10 01:12 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: ChopinAddict]
shaulhadar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 36
Loc: Israel
Hello again, Elene, i just checked your blog smile
amazing content!!!
tell me, is there anymore of the stuff you witnessed?
and is there anymore transcripts of the seances with leslie flint in written text?
these stuff really interest me smile
_________________________
check out for my recording smile
http://www.last.fm/music/Shaul+Hadar/Shaul+plays+Chopin+and+Mendhelssohn
and my Chopin page:
http://chopin-opus.66ghz.com

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#1394691 - 03/12/10 11:06 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: shaulhadar]
Elene Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1245
Loc: the holographic universe
Shaul,

I just found out today that Gaia is going to shut down at the end of March, so I have to find another place to put my blog. I'll probably go to Wordpress. I do have stuff to post, but most of it isn't packaged to put up yet; it's still scattered around in different documents.

I'm still wondering if you have recordings of your own compositions posted or otherwise available anywhere?

*********

Last week I wrote to Fred Child of Performance Today to say that he'd been incorrect in saying that Chopin was barely over 5 feet tall. He quoted my e-mail on the air today, so everyone heard that the man really stood 170 cm, or about 5'7". (A reminder to be careful what we write because we might get quoted!) I still don't like the harsh sound of his pronunciation of Chopin's name, which he said he's not planning to change to the Polish style, but I think he has softened it a bit, unless I've just gotten used to it. And bizarrely enough, he pronounced my name right. Everyone typically has so much trouble with it. (For the record: Elene is like Helene without the H-- el-EEN. Gusch rhymes with bush.)

Elene
_________________________
SPOCK/PICARD 2012

Blog: http://elenedom.wordpress.com
Website: http://kuanyin.elenelistens.com




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#1394827 - 03/13/10 07:53 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Elene]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5309
Loc: SC Mountains
Originally Posted By: Elene

Last week I wrote to Fred Child of Performance Today to say that he'd been incorrect in saying that Chopin was barely over 5 feet tall.
thumb
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

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#1394878 - 03/13/10 09:26 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: -Frycek]
Bill Rodriguez Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 2
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
I can't figure out exactly how to post this so please bear with me. Thanks

I was fortunate to have been invited to participate in the
Chopin 1810-2010 Congress in Warsaw and attended many of the lectures and most of the concerts by some of the world's best pianists. I made it a point to attend Dr. Jeff Kallberg's stimulating lecture about "Chopin's Pencil". Don't miss it if you have the opportunity to hear it someday. I also attended the re-opening of the new, modernized Chopin Museum which I highly recommend to everyone. If you want to see some pictures, videos and read some concert reviews you can do so at this link http://magazynchopin.pl/en/koncerty/online . Be sure to click on the English version. Enjoy.

Bill Rodriguez

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#1394983 - 03/13/10 12:47 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Bill Rodriguez]
Elene Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1245
Loc: the holographic universe
Wow, thanks, Bill. Almost like being there. Of course, had we been there, we couldn't have heard the gala concert anyway, since it was for bigwigs only and most of us wouldn't have counted for anything.

On the other hand, I guess we have "Magazyn Chopin" right here.

Elene
_________________________
SPOCK/PICARD 2012

Blog: http://elenedom.wordpress.com
Website: http://kuanyin.elenelistens.com




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#1395277 - 03/13/10 09:53 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Bill Rodriguez]
Strings & Wood Offline


Gold member until Dec. 2012


Registered: 05/22/08
Posts: 1652
Loc: USA
Outstanding concert Bill. Thanks ever so much for the post!
Carl
_________________________




Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about dancing in the rain.






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#1395304 - 03/13/10 10:19 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Strings & Wood]
ChopinAddict Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 4521
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Thank you so much, Bill! smile
_________________________



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#1395326 - 03/13/10 11:12 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Bill Rodriguez]
Crit Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/02/09
Posts: 88
Loc: North Carolina, US
Bill, what a wonderful treat. Thank you so much for sharing.

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#1395462 - 03/14/10 11:13 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Bill Rodriguez]
Jeff Kallberg Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/09
Posts: 173
It was terrific to meet Bill in Warsaw. Not only is he a very nice person, he brought along to share with the participants in the Congress many parts of the wonderful collection he has assembled about the illustrious history of his family - my favorites among them being the two editions of Fontana's music signed and dedicated by Fontana himself!

Elene: there were lots of "normal" folks at the gala concert (I sat next to a fidget-ty 10-year old boy), though I think they ordered their tickets well in advance.

Jeff Kallberg

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#1395731 - 03/14/10 06:37 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Jeff Kallberg]
Elene Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1245
Loc: the holographic universe
Jeff, I'm glad that peons got to go to the gala concert. Something I had read about it gave me the impression that it was completely packed with government figures and celebrities. I hope the 10-year-old got something out of it.

I was wondering if you have any advice for us about hotels, etc. in Warsaw.

I was just looking at the "My Performance Today" site, and only 3 people out of the ENTIRE COUNTRY, in fact the world, have sent in their Chopin recordings! E-citalists, where are you?? I did include a link to the e-citals with my entry, so I guess you're all in there anyway. (Hope that's OK with you.) I don't think this gets heavy traffic anyway-- my file has been heard only 13 times so far. But I think it's great that we all get to participate in the national and international celebration in some way.

Elene
_________________________
SPOCK/PICARD 2012

Blog: http://elenedom.wordpress.com
Website: http://kuanyin.elenelistens.com




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#1395780 - 03/14/10 07:58 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Elene]
Jeff Kallberg Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/09
Posts: 173
Hotels in Warsaw: It is quite a varied scene now (as opposed to the old pre-89 days), and there are options for all manner of budgets and comfort-levels. The few times I've had to book my own hotel I've opted to use one of the various online discount sites (just poke around on Google), where one pays in advance and gets a significant discount. This has always worked well for me. Most of the sites have map functions that let you see how far you are from the places you want to visit - I prefer to walk most places, so I like to choose something that is centrally located.

Jeff Kallberg

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#1395827 - 03/14/10 09:35 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Jeff Kallberg]
Bill Rodriguez Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 2
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Elene,

This visit I stayed at the Sofitel Victoria as a guest. I don't know what the price was but I believe it was fairly expensive. In previous visits, each for a week, I stayed at Gromada Centrum and Harenda. Harenda was remodeled for this year and has added an elevator!! It is only three stories high. They offer specials if you stay over a weekend. Harenda is across the street from the Church of the Holy Cross which contains Chopin's heart and was designed in part by Fontana ancestors. It has also been renovated since my previous visit. Gromada, I believe, is a cold war carryover. It was OK but just very cold in ambience, but I stayed there over five years ago. Maybe it has changed. Both are within walking distance of all the interesting places and Old Town. The renovated Chopin Museum is also close by. I'd check out the Harenda and compare to others you find.

Good luck,

Bill Rodriguez

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#1396575 - 03/15/10 08:02 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Bill Rodriguez]
salzdt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 257
Loc: Greenport, New York
Nocturne Op. 32, No.1
I'm working on this Nocturne, and in working out the fingering with my teacher, we came to the ending which ended in B Major. I have read that there is some debate on how Chopin intended to end this Nocturne(B Major or B Minor). My teacher prefers ending in B Minor. I heard Rubinsteins's recording, it ends in B Major. Any comments.
Thanks thumb
Dot
_________________________

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#1397342 - 03/16/10 10:22 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: salzdt]
Jeff Kallberg Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/09
Posts: 173
Originally Posted By: salzdt
Nocturne Op. 32, No.1
I'm working on this Nocturne, and in working out the fingering with my teacher, we came to the ending which ended in B Major. I have read that there is some debate on how Chopin intended to end this Nocturne(B Major or B Minor). My teacher prefers ending in B Minor. I heard Rubinsteins's recording, it ends in B Major. Any comments.
Thanks thumb
Dot


Dear salzdt,

The B minor ending is the correct one. The change to major was made in a later version of the German first edition; the change was undoubtedly made by someone who worked for the German firm, and without any authorization from Chopin. That the added sharp lingers on in modern editions is unfortunate.

Jeff Kallberg

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#1397343 - 03/16/10 10:24 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Bill Rodriguez]
Jeff Kallberg Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/09
Posts: 173
Originally Posted By: Bill Rodriguez
Elene,

This visit I stayed at the Sofitel Victoria as a guest. I don't know what the price was but I believe it was fairly expensive. In previous visits, each for a week, I stayed at Gromada Centrum and Harenda. Harenda was remodeled for this year and has added an elevator!! It is only three stories high. They offer specials if you stay over a weekend. Harenda is across the street from the Church of the Holy Cross which contains Chopin's heart and was designed in part by Fontana ancestors. It has also been renovated since my previous visit. Gromada, I believe, is a cold war carryover. It was OK but just very cold in ambience, but I stayed there over five years ago. Maybe it has changed. Both are within walking distance of all the interesting places and Old Town. The renovated Chopin Museum is also close by. I'd check out the Harenda and compare to others you find.

Good luck,

Bill Rodriguez


One caution about the Harenda: try to specify a room that does not overlook the bar attached to the hotel. We stayed there for one of the conferences a few years back: those who had rooms overlooking the bar were very unhappy about the night-time noise.

Jeff Kallberg

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#1397515 - 03/17/10 05:43 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Jeff Kallberg]
custard apple Online   blank
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 1570
Loc: Sydney
I want to wish everyone Happy St Paddy's Day !

For those of you living in Lincolnshire or elsewhere in the east of England, Jack Gibbons is performing a concert of Chopin and Gershwin in Grantham Lincolnshire this evening(St Patrick's Day, Wednesday March 17th).

[I know some of you have had difficulty accessing the FB links for Jack Gibbons]

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#1397733 - 03/17/10 12:05 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Jeff Kallberg]
salzdt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 257
Loc: Greenport, New York
Jeff,
Thanks for you reply. My teacher will appreciate the background of how the ending was changed. I do like the Minor ending.
Dot
_________________________

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#1397741 - 03/17/10 12:09 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: custard apple]
Elene Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1245
Loc: the holographic universe
It took me a while to get to 32/1. That ending fits Chopin's reputation for doing the musically unexpected, doesn't it? The editors of the Paderewski edition, like Jeff, say that the D# at the end was an error in the German edition. I have 3 editions of the nocturne, and all end on B minor.

Thanks for the hotel advice.

Happy St. Patrick's Day to custard apple and all, too. Funny, I actually have some Irish ancestry, but it has never been emphasized. My father's mother was part Irish, along with mixed American hash, but to hear my dad tell it, he was 110% Italian.

Elene
_________________________
SPOCK/PICARD 2012

Blog: http://elenedom.wordpress.com
Website: http://kuanyin.elenelistens.com




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#1398144 - 03/17/10 09:09 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Elene]
Orange Soda King Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 4244
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Hmm. I read that George Sand said this of Chopin's famous Raindrop Prelude:

(Spoiler to shorten post heighth)
Click to reveal..

There is one that came to him through an evening of dismal rain—it casts the soul into a terrible dejection. Maurice and I had left him in good health one morning to go shopping in Palma for things we needed at our "encampment." The rain came in overflowing torrents. We made three leagues in six hours, only to return in the middle of a flood. We got back in absolute dark, shoeless, having been abandoned by our driver to cross unheard of perils. We hurried, knowing how our sick one would worry. Indeed he had, but now was as though congealed in a kind of quiet desperation, and, weeping, he was playing his wonderful prelude.

Seeing us come in, he got up with a cry, then said with a bewildered air and a strange tone, "Ah, I was sure that you were dead." When he recovered his spirits and saw the state we were in, he was ill, picturing the dangers we had been through, but he confessed to me that while waiting for us he had seen it all in a dream, and no longer distinguishing the dream from reality, he became calm and drowsy.

While playing the piano, persuaded that he was dead himself, he saw himself drown in a lake. Heavy drops of icy water fell in a regular rhythm on his breast, and when I made him listen to the sound of the drops of water indeed falling in rhythm on the roof, he denied having heard it. He was even angry that I should interpret this in terms of imitative sounds. He protested with all his might—and he was right to—against the childishness of such aural imitations.

His genius was filled with the mysterious sounds of nature, but transformed into sublime equivalents in musical thought, and not through slavish imitation of the actual external sounds. His composition of that night was surely filled with raindrops, resounding clearly on the tiles of the Charterhouse, but it had been transformed in his imagination and in his song into tears falling upon his heart from the sky.


Cool insight, huh? The flood part reminds me of Ballade 2... I heard from a concert pianist (Steven Spooner, if anyone knows that name) that the Ballade 2 was about a flood washing away a family's home and their young son with it. Any clue on that one?


Edited by Orange Soda King (03/17/10 09:12 PM)
_________________________
Current obsessions:
-Choir and choral conducting
-University of Kentucky basketball

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#1398167 - 03/17/10 09:56 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Orange Soda King]
custard apple Online   blank
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 1570
Loc: Sydney
oh wow, how many languages do you know Elene ? Italian, Slovak...?

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#1398230 - 03/17/10 11:53 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: custard apple]
Elene Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1245
Loc: the holographic universe
Orange Soda King, all I can say is this: George Sand wrote fiction. It's fascinating to read what she wrote, but take it with cupfuls of salt. Whole boxes of salt, even.

If I'm not mistaken, the ballades are practically the only pieces in Chopin's output that are actually meant to be programmatic, but I don't remember what the stories are supposed to be.

How did you do that cool thing with the quote?

Custard Apple, I'm afraid I'm really only fluent in English. I have a pretty good grasp of French, but my vocabulary is rather small and I don't get to practice it much. I can read magazines in Spanish pretty well, and understand a lot of what is said to me, but I don't speak or write it worth a darn. I have a small amount of Italian, mostly picked up from singing. I'm trying to learn Polish. Sadly, I have almost no Slovak (my grandmother never taught me any of it).

My patient who lends me CDs brought me one of the Brazilian pianist Ricardo Castro. I wasn't familiar with him. Here's his version of 9/2, with extensive embellishment in Chopin's style. It's perhaps a bit over the top-- maybe Chopin after an extra glass of wine? I think this trend of classical players improvising more is a very healthy one, anyway. After all, it's what the composers did themselves.

http://www.box.net/shared/98g1mnrenn

(I don't know how to do cool things with links.)

Elene
_________________________
SPOCK/PICARD 2012

Blog: http://elenedom.wordpress.com
Website: http://kuanyin.elenelistens.com




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