I was down at a dealer in Scottsdale AZ yesterday and saw a new BB and an AA, both of which had the full-perimeter plates. Big honkers. What I mean is looking at the left of the bass where normally you'd see the soundboard all you see is plate, all plate, and nothing but plate. In fact, the entire left side is angled outward a skoshe towards the tail to accommodate the larger plate, and obviously more soundboard area. Don't know if it makes much of a difference in the sound, but they both sounded fantastic.

The guy told me that they've always been doing it that way. However, seeing pictures of those from the pre-depression era, they clearly don't have full-perimeter plates, but rather plates that look like all other mfg. My question is when did they start doing it like that, and does it really make that big of a difference in anything, besides overall weight?

Thanks,
James

The BB Mason & Hamlin has always had the full plate. Other models did not. Recently M&H has begun to adopt the full plate to other models.

The BB has had a full-perimeter plate for as long as I can remember. We have one BB right now from the 1920's...full-perimeter. The AA being full-perimeter is pretty recent, I believe, but I'm not sure when. Someone else can help you better with when.

On the Model A it started around 2004-2005.

Though there were various srring and bridge scales for the AA since the turn of the century,the AA never had a full perimeter plate till recent. I have an 1899 Victorian art case AA without the tension bar reasonator.
Hey,this was a joint effort in anwsering the OP's question.

Thanks for clearing up the mystery guys !!

I believe the tension resonator wasn't invented until 1900.

The full perimeter plate and the tension resonator combined probably add about 100 pounds of weight to the instrument !!

My A was purchased in 2000, and has a full perimeter plate.

Ok, so the BB has had it for millenia, the AA a little more recent than 1929 (see picture in ad from www.pianomart.com), and the A was more recent than that. How does that add to the overall sound of the instrument? The reason that I'm asking is because it's one of the makes that I'm considering and I'd like to know if I should take that into account.

James

Link to 1929 M&H AA on Pianomart.com without full-perimeter plate

I was a Mason & Hamlin dealer beginning in 2000, and several new model A's that I sold the first few years did not have the full perimiter plate.

One such piano I am selling now on consignment and is listed here along with photos of the plate:

http://cgi.ebay.com/2002-MASON-HAMLIN-Gr...=item2a0587ecf5

You can see in the 3rd photo where the plate ends.

CCs have had full perimeter plates from time to time.

There are a couple of Bösendorfer 170s that I have tuned, one from the 1950s with a full perimeter plate, and the other from about 1990 without.

The Tension Resonator was invented as a repair for old pianos before it was used on Mason & Hamlins.

i have to admit i loved the look of it in my A. it certainly doesn't hold the sound of a M&H down, that's for sure!

Entheo,

Your piano sounds great on the Youtube videos!

Can you post a photo showing the full perimeter plate? It looks same as the piano I have on E-bay from 2002 which does not have it.

Another change that occured in Masons around this time was the switch from Renner action parts to other sources.

I have been most impressed with the Mason model As from before the time these changes occured, although the full perimeter plate can't hurt.

Just so we are all on the same page as for what a full perimeter actually looks like. Here is a pic of the top end of my restored 1912 BB(which is sold already).

http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/LouieMstack1912M&HBBKawaiKL32uprt.021.jpg

thanks nick; my M&H has some serious gusto.



here's a picture of it:



when i was shopping my dealer also had other As that did NOT have the full perimeter plate, but i would have to assume they were earlier model years.

yes that's quite correct that the bass side of a M&H angles out to accommodate more soundboard, which i believe accounts for M&Hs sounding bigger than they are.

i would speculate that, not unlike bass speaker systems that are "rear-reflecting" (i.e., the speakers point to the back of the cabinet, not out the front, to produce a richer, fuller bass), that the bass soundboard coverage of the full perimeter plates help M&H produce such outstanding bass in their pianos. you'll note that in the photo of my A that the lower right is completely covered, not even a sound port in that section.

Entheo,

Most definitely - that's it! I'm suprised that it is from 2000 and not newer. Nice that you got one from the time they were making the change. Perhaps some of the finishes I sold then did not move as quickly, so they had the older plate.

Interesting. I understand the patent was originally granted to Gertz in 1900 while he was at Mason & Hamlin. Could you direct us to any documentation re your statement? I'd love to see it.

Thanks.

I think that was either in Dolge or Spillane.