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#1395435 - 03/14/10 10:20 AM What changed 2005-2010 for Estonia 190s?
Bunneh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 398
Loc: Berlin
Hello everyone,

I am very interested in Estonia pianos, but since 90%+ are sold in the US, my options of trying them out are very limited.

Pianobuyer.com writes, "Since becoming sole owner in 2001, Laul has made so many changes that it is practically a different instrument".

How many of these changes have happened since 2005? is a 2006/2007 Estonia acoustically the same as a 2010 model? Or were there substantial changes even in these few years? I am wondering whether to buy used or new... In case I am buying new, I would probably not really have the chance to sample the 2010 instrument before purchase, if the dealer has no newer model on the floor.

Thanks in advance for any insights!
_________________________
aim for the moon - if you miss, at least you'll be among the stars.

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#1395536 - 03/14/10 01:50 PM Re: What changed 2005-2010 for Estonia 190s? [Re: Bunneh]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 12608
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Watte,watte - are you writing from my birth city Berlin Germany?

In this case I can give you local contacts...

Norbert smile
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver piano dealers for : C.Sauter,Estonia,Brodmann,Ritmuller, Hailun,
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#1395805 - 03/14/10 08:46 PM Re: What changed 2005-2010 for Estonia 190s? [Re: Norbert]
Benjamin K Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/15/07
Posts: 56
Loc: Orange Co
Here are some general changes that are made for newer Estonia grand piano of post 2005 models.

1) Lighter weighted top lid.
2) Improved plate (now it is polished/smoother finish, sturdier and stronger)
3) Soundboard is now Bavarian white spruce instead of Siberian spruce - more concert grand piano quality soundboards on all models
4) Renner blue hammers instead of Abel hammers (I don't know if it is necessarily improved part because I like both hammers)
5) Nicer felt materials and suede covered music desk tray
6) Thicker inner and outer rims
7) Quartersawn maple bridge caps
8) Adjustable front and rear duplex scales
9) Jansen artist bench

Perhaps I am missing some, maybe someone else can fill in for me.
_________________________
Kim's Piano Garden Grove, CA
www.kimspiano.com
representing SHIGERU KAWAI, ESTONIA, PETROF, KAWAI, WILH STEINBERG, BRODMANN and Vintage STEINWAY
714-488-9772

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#1395830 - 03/14/10 09:37 PM Re: What changed 2005-2010 for Estonia 190s? [Re: Benjamin K]
pno Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1034
Loc: ♪oron♪o, on♪ario, canada...
Originally Posted By: Benjamin K

Perhaps I am missing some, maybe someone else can fill in for me.


10. Price.

Berlin is so close to Estonia why not just take a weekend and drive there!
_________________________
♫♫♫ ♫♫♫
YAMAHA C2M PE

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#1396061 - 03/15/10 05:01 AM Re: What changed 2005-2010 for Estonia 190s? [Re: pno]
Bunneh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 398
Loc: Berlin
Update: The L190 in question is actually a 2008 model, The 168 a 2009 model. Still, these might not work out for me, and this has been very helpful advice for me so far, thank you guys.

Do you have any estimate/experience how much these changes contribute to the sound?

And yes Norbert, I am writing from wonderful (though at the moment grey and depressing, as every winter) Berlin!

edit: It's a 21 hour drive to Tallinn, either through Poland, which has almost no highways, or with a ferry over Denmark wink I'd definitely fly!


Edited by Bunneh (03/15/10 05:02 AM)
_________________________
aim for the moon - if you miss, at least you'll be among the stars.

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#1396089 - 03/15/10 06:12 AM Re: What changed 2005-2010 for Estonia 190s? [Re: Benjamin K]
schwammerl Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 1925
Loc: Belgium
Bunneh,

I must say I am more confused than informed by the list of changes given by Benjamin K because of two reasons:

* Already in 2007 there was a thread on this issue and Ori then explained the changes in detail which took place between 2002 and mid 2005. As you will notice many of the changes listed by Benjamin are already in Ori's list which only stretches till mid 2005.
The only change I am really sure off is of recent date is the low weight top lid.
Also for Europe there is no Jansen artist bench delivered with the Estonias!
Estonia changes

Quote:
1. The soundboard material and supplier is different, and it is supplied to a higher grade.
2. The rim on the 168 is more massive, and the connection of the soundboard to the rim has been improved in order to contain more energy within the instrument.
3. The bridge construction on the 168 is different.
4. The bridge material is different.
5. The hammers are different.
6. The bass strings have been rescaled and are different..
7. The legs and lyre material is different, and it is now made of a specially treated wood aiming to prevent it from cracking even 60 years down the road.
8. The hardware is different, supplied to a higher grade by a different maker to prevent oxidation.
9. The plate on the 190 is of different design and manufacturer, aiming to reduce energy loss within the instrument yet to be stronger.
10. The plates are now finished much nicer, to a perfectly smooth looks.
11. There are now metal strips under the rear duplex aliquots to allow a tech to move these easier without scratching the plate.
12. The wood veneers used for the wood case pianos are of higher grade, and are now artistically matched to a very high level.
13. The finishes are better now (from the stand point of looks and durability).


* As an owner of a 2008 Estonia 168 I can notice most of these changes already in place (apart form the light weight top lid).

That being said I personally would not be all that obsessed with minor changes and if you do not care driving to Hannover you can do some excellent deals at "Flügellink" = Gerd Finkenstein, presumably the most reputable Estonia dealer in Europe (he is moving facilities):

Gerd Finkenstein, Hannover

schwammerl.

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#1396256 - 03/15/10 11:37 AM Re: What changed 2005-2010 for Estonia 190s? [Re: schwammerl]
misha4282 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 97
Loc: Upper Peninsula of Michigan
I think somewhere in there the "soft drop" fallboard came in there. As a proud owner of a 2009 L190, it has this feature as well as all the others. I believe sound wise, since the major changes after Dr. Laul took the company over and revamped the instrument, the other changes have been minor in comparison.


Edited by misha4282 (03/15/10 11:38 AM)
_________________________
Estonia L190 #7051

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#1396399 - 03/15/10 03:23 PM Re: What changed 2005-2010 for Estonia 190s? [Re: misha4282]
Russ Roberts Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/02/09
Posts: 242
Loc: Texas
Yep. Our L190, finished in late 2009/early 2010 has the soft-drop fallboard. And a comment about the new, lighter lid--if it is light now, I would have had to hire a bodyguard to lift the old ones. smile This is NOT a complaint--I would much rather have every single aspect of the piano soundly built--and this piano is a tank--but a tank that sings.

Russ
_________________________
Estonia L190--Serial # 7117
Ragtime should never be played fast--Scott Joplin

Repertoire (Ready for Carnegie Hall smile ): Fur Elise; Beethoven Minuet in G; Chopin: Prelude 28-7; Joplin: The Entertainer

Polishing: Chopin: Waltz in A minor (Post)

Working: Brahms: Waltz 39-15; Chopin: Albumblatt

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#1397916 - 03/17/10 03:30 PM Re: What changed 2005-2010 for Estonia 190s? [Re: Russ Roberts]
Bunneh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 398
Loc: Berlin
Thanks guys!

So for a 2007/08 model, it seems the only thing people can agree on is that you miss out on the soft close fallboard, which is very nice but doesn't have a real impact on sound smile
_________________________
aim for the moon - if you miss, at least you'll be among the stars.

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#1397929 - 03/17/10 03:45 PM Re: What changed 2005-2010 for Estonia 190s? [Re: Bunneh]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 12608
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
The soft close fallboard was an option for the last few months. We had some *with* and some *without*

Actally very few Estonia customers pay great attention to this...

Norbert
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver piano dealers for : C.Sauter,Estonia,Brodmann,Ritmuller, Hailun,
604-951-8642

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