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#1395593 - 03/14/1003:02 PMRe: Who was the greatest pianist ever?
[Re: SlatterFan]
Andromaque
3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3202
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: SlatterFan
[quote=argerichfan] With Richter, there'd be times I'd want to yell, "Do you have to play it so freakin' slow?" With Horowitz and Argerich, there'd be times I'd want to yell, "Do you have to play it so freakin' fast?"
julian, which Richter interpretations are you thinking of? other than some Schubert sonatas (and I like his blue mood there).. Argerich is fantastic live, much superior to her recordings. I wish I could have been "in the presence" of Richter live (quoting my teacher).. I bet Horowitz is also impressive live. never seen him either.
With Richter, there'd be times I'd want to yell, "Do you have to play it so freakin' slow?"
julian, which Richter interpretations are you thinking of? other than some Schubert sonatas (and I like his blue mood there)..
I was thinking of Schubert sonatas, yes. Especially my fave, the G major D894. I saw a Richter CD of it at my local library and when I saw the timing of the first movement at around 27 minutes, I winced and couldn't bear to hear it. Though I have just heard a sample on Amazon out of morbid curiosity. Sheesh. When Schubert writes Molto moderato, if you choose to play Molto adagio instead, as far as I'm concerned, you aren't being profound, you aren't being reflective, it isn't valid artistic licence, you're just dissing the music and the composer, and you're making me want to yell at you! Richter plays the first movement as if the key sig is 3/4, where each Schubert beat is Richter's whole measure. The dotted quarter note pulse, the pulse that is supposed to be very moderate, is so slow it has effectively disappeared into redrawn barlines. In my book that's rewriting the whole movement. (Observing the repeat, the first movement takes me around 16 minutes, and I wouldn't want to go any slower. Thankfully, some time after I'd settled firmly on tempi, I saw that Schiff clocks in at 16:47, so at least I know I'm not crazy!)
Also I'm pretty sure it was Richter I heard on the radio one time playing a very slow and ponderous opening of the first movement of Rach 2, as if he was communing with each individual note of the piano part. "Dude! The orchestra has the melody, you have decoration! Lighten up! Ach!"
I'm not averse to unexpectedly different tempi either way, but I have limits, and I'd be too worried Richter would push me past mine. That's why I'd be wary of having him as an exclusive artist to see live, but I'd be happier picking and choosing from his recording legacy as an exclusive artist... if I had to pick only one -- "the greatest" pianist.
[...] With Horowitz and Argerich, there'd be times I'd want to yell, "Do you have to play it so freakin' fast?"
[...]
I agree about Argerich...however, with Horowitz it can be somewhat of an illusion due to the exceptional clarity of his playing.
I spoke too hastily/simplistically about Horowitz. The only recording of his that dismayed me a lot in his EMI set was his Chopin 4th Scherzo, which sounded horribly rushed to me. I haven't heard enough of his recordings to know if that was a rarity in his live performances or not, for him to run away like that. I find him a mixed bag when I browse YouTube, but for more complex reasons that I find hard to put in words.
#1395834 - 03/14/1009:41 PMRe: Who was the greatest pianist ever?
[Re: Inlanding]
argerichfan
7000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 7230
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Inlanding
So many great pianists. Art Tatum gets my vote every time.
...both Rachmaninoff and Horowitz were amazed by his dexterity and genius.
And so -I believe- was Godowsky. With those stellar references Tatum had a right to be proud. And from what I've read, Tatum had no false modesty. Still, I would love to have heard Fats Waller. I have many of his recordings, he was truly a phenomenon.
#1395850 - 03/14/1009:54 PMRe: Who was the greatest pianist ever?
[Re: SlatterFan]
argerichfan
7000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 7230
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: SlatterFan
I spoke too hastily/simplistically about Horowitz. The only recording of his that dismayed me a lot in his EMI set was his Chopin 4th Scherzo...
Well I've certainly praised Horowitz enough here -so my admiration is not in doubt- but truth to tell, there are a number of Horowitz recordings which I feel (IMO, please) completely miss that mark.
His Schubert D960 is a good example, as is the Rachmaninov 3 with Ormandy, but the later RCA recordings of Liszt -B minor Ballade, Mephisto Waltz, Sonata- are a real trial. His constant filling in of the bass gets very tiresome on the ear, and I frankly hear no reason behind his complete rewrite of these masterpieces.
By contrast, I cannot think of any Argerich recording which misses the mark in such grand style as the Horowitz recordings mentioned above. Yes, her Chopin G minor Ballade gets a bit dodgy (how many cups of coffee, Martha?), and the live recordings of the Tchaikovsky tend to be on the fast side. But the music can certainly take it...
#1395874 - 03/14/1010:09 PMRe: Who was the greatest pianist ever?
[Re: argerichfan]
Horowitzian
8000 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8125
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
[...] but the later RCA recordings of Liszt -B minor Ballade, Mephisto Waltz, Sonata- are a real trial. His constant filling in of the bass gets very tiresome on the ear, and I frankly hear no reason behind his complete rewrite of these masterpieces.
[...]
Ya gotta love his Mad Scientist period.
_________________________
~H
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.
Yes, of course! Oscar shares the number one spot on my list along with Tatum for sure.
He also held Tatum in the highest regard.
I saw Oscar Peterson in 1977 = First time I saw someone almost play a piano off its legs, and it was a Bosie. I remember so clearly to this day watching/listening to him play - astonishing!
#1395882 - 03/14/1010:15 PMRe: Who was the greatest pianist ever?
[Re: argerichfan]
Andromaque
3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3202
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
By contrast, I cannot think of any Argerich recording which misses the mark in such grand style as the Horowitz recordings mentioned above. Yes, her Chopin G minor Ballade gets a bit dodgy (how many cups of coffee, Martha?), and the live recordings of the Tchaikovsky tend to be on the fast side. But the music can certainly take it...
yes, but we were talking about dead pianists, not living ones.. I just bought tickets for her Carnegie Hall concert in april 2011!! She will be playing Beethoven's First piano concerto. The problem is I am pretty sure she won't show up.. She is playing with Seiji Ozawa, who was just diagnosed with esophageal cancer..I wish him well but that disease is not a good player..And she is not one to switch conductors last minute..
#1395897 - 03/14/1010:23 PMRe: Who was the greatest pianist ever?
[Re: Andromaque]
argerichfan
7000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 7230
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
The problem is I am pretty sure she won't show up.. She is playing with Seiji Ozawa, who was just diagnosed with esophageal cancer..I wish him well but that disease is not a good player..And she is not one to switch conductors last minute..
And probably no chance of bringing in Claudio Abbado or Charles Dutoit.
#1396274 - 03/15/1012:08 PMRe: Who was the greatest pianist ever?
[Re: tuner2]
carey
3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 3666
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: tuner2
Some might find this hard to believe but, Peter Nero was one of Vladimir Horowitz's personal favorites when it came to pianists.
Its nice to know that Mr. Horowitz had excellent taste !! Nero was very very good at playing a certain style of music - and he had a solid classical background.
There have been and continue to be great pianists who do not normally play what is called "classical" music. The greatest pianist I ever heard was probably Dorothy Donegan, who wove Mendelssohn and Rachmaninoff together while playing circles around Charles Brown.
#1396415 - 03/15/1003:40 PMRe: Who was the greatest pianist ever?
[Re: carey]
argerichfan
7000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 7230
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: tuner2
Some might find this hard to believe but, Peter Nero was one of Vladimir Horowitz's personal favorites when it came to pianists.
Its nice to know that Mr. Horowitz had excellent taste !! Nero was very very good at playing a certain style of music - and he had a solid classical background.
Peter Nero giving us some delectable Moszkowski. Yes, he could certainly get around the piano in grand style.
#1396416 - 03/15/1003:42 PMRe: Who was the greatest pianist ever?
[Re: argerichfan]
Horowitzian
8000 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8125
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: tuner2
Some might find this hard to believe but, Peter Nero was one of Vladimir Horowitz's personal favorites when it came to pianists.
Its nice to know that Mr. Horowitz had excellent taste !! Nero was very very good at playing a certain style of music - and he had a solid classical background.
Peter Nero giving us some delectable Moszkowski. Yes, he could certainly get around the piano in grand style.
Thanks! I had seen the Chopin Op. 10 No. 4 video, but not that one.
_________________________
~H
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.