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#1395593 - 03/14/10 03:02 PM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: SlatterFan]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3202
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: SlatterFan
[quote=argerichfan] With Richter, there'd be times I'd want to yell, "Do you have to play it so freakin' slow?" With Horowitz and Argerich, there'd be times I'd want to yell, "Do you have to play it so freakin' fast?"


julian, which Richter interpretations are you thinking of? other than some Schubert sonatas (and I like his blue mood there)..
Argerich is fantastic live, much superior to her recordings.
I wish I could have been "in the presence" of Richter live (quoting my teacher).. I bet Horowitz is also impressive live. never seen him either.

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#1395606 - 03/14/10 03:14 PM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: SlatterFan]
Horowitzian Online   blank
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8125
Originally Posted By: SlatterFan
[...] With Horowitz and Argerich, there'd be times I'd want to yell, "Do you have to play it so freakin' fast?"

[...]

I agree about Argerich...however, with Horowitz it can be somewhat of an illusion due to the exceptional clarity of his playing.
_________________________
~H

Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1395647 - 03/14/10 04:19 PM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: Andromaque]
SlatterFan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 703
Loc: Brighton, UK
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Originally Posted By: SlatterFan
With Richter, there'd be times I'd want to yell, "Do you have to play it so freakin' slow?"
julian, which Richter interpretations are you thinking of? other than some Schubert sonatas (and I like his blue mood there)..
I was thinking of Schubert sonatas, yes. Especially my fave, the G major D894. I saw a Richter CD of it at my local library and when I saw the timing of the first movement at around 27 minutes, I winced and couldn't bear to hear it. Though I have just heard a sample on Amazon out of morbid curiosity. Sheesh. When Schubert writes Molto moderato, if you choose to play Molto adagio instead, as far as I'm concerned, you aren't being profound, you aren't being reflective, it isn't valid artistic licence, you're just dissing the music and the composer, and you're making me want to yell at you! Richter plays the first movement as if the key sig is 3/4, where each Schubert beat is Richter's whole measure. The dotted quarter note pulse, the pulse that is supposed to be very moderate, is so slow it has effectively disappeared into redrawn barlines. In my book that's rewriting the whole movement. (Observing the repeat, the first movement takes me around 16 minutes, and I wouldn't want to go any slower. Thankfully, some time after I'd settled firmly on tempi, I saw that Schiff clocks in at 16:47, so at least I know I'm not crazy!)

Also I'm pretty sure it was Richter I heard on the radio one time playing a very slow and ponderous opening of the first movement of Rach 2, as if he was communing with each individual note of the piano part. "Dude! The orchestra has the melody, you have decoration! Lighten up! Ach!"

I'm not averse to unexpectedly different tempi either way, but I have limits, and I'd be too worried Richter would push me past mine. That's why I'd be wary of having him as an exclusive artist to see live, but I'd be happier picking and choosing from his recording legacy as an exclusive artist... if I had to pick only one -- "the greatest" pianist.
_________________________
Julian

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#1395650 - 03/14/10 04:25 PM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: Mark_C]
Clarus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 21
Loc: Moscow, Russia
VLADIMIR HOROWITZ!
EMIL GILILS!
Claudio Arrau!

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#1395657 - 03/14/10 04:30 PM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: Horowitzian]
SlatterFan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 703
Loc: Brighton, UK
Originally Posted By: Horowitzian
Originally Posted By: SlatterFan
[...] With Horowitz and Argerich, there'd be times I'd want to yell, "Do you have to play it so freakin' fast?"

[...]

I agree about Argerich...however, with Horowitz it can be somewhat of an illusion due to the exceptional clarity of his playing.
I spoke too hastily/simplistically about Horowitz. The only recording of his that dismayed me a lot in his EMI set was his Chopin 4th Scherzo, which sounded horribly rushed to me. I haven't heard enough of his recordings to know if that was a rarity in his live performances or not, for him to run away like that. I find him a mixed bag when I browse YouTube, but for more complex reasons that I find hard to put in words.
_________________________
Julian

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#1395828 - 03/14/10 09:35 PM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: SlatterFan]
Inlanding Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 1110
Loc: Colorado
So many great pianists. Art Tatum gets my vote every time.

...both Rachmaninoff and Horowitz were amazed by his dexterity and genius.





Glen
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Feb BoxNet

YouTube Channel

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#1395834 - 03/14/10 09:41 PM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: Inlanding]
argerichfan Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 7230
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Inlanding
So many great pianists. Art Tatum gets my vote every time.

...both Rachmaninoff and Horowitz were amazed by his dexterity and genius.


And so -I believe- was Godowsky. With those stellar references Tatum had a right to be proud. And from what I've read, Tatum had no false modesty. Still, I would love to have heard Fats Waller. I have many of his recordings, he was truly a phenomenon.
_________________________
Jason

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#1395850 - 03/14/10 09:54 PM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: SlatterFan]
argerichfan Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 7230
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: SlatterFan
I spoke too hastily/simplistically about Horowitz. The only recording of his that dismayed me a lot in his EMI set was his Chopin 4th Scherzo...

Well I've certainly praised Horowitz enough here -so my admiration is not in doubt- but truth to tell, there are a number of Horowitz recordings which I feel (IMO, please) completely miss that mark.

His Schubert D960 is a good example, as is the Rachmaninov 3 with Ormandy, but the later RCA recordings of Liszt -B minor Ballade, Mephisto Waltz, Sonata- are a real trial. His constant filling in of the bass gets very tiresome on the ear, and I frankly hear no reason behind his complete rewrite of these masterpieces.

By contrast, I cannot think of any Argerich recording which misses the mark in such grand style as the Horowitz recordings mentioned above. Yes, her Chopin G minor Ballade gets a bit dodgy (how many cups of coffee, Martha?), and the live recordings of the Tchaikovsky tend to be on the fast side. But the music can certainly take it...
_________________________
Jason

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#1395865 - 03/14/10 10:03 PM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: argerichfan]
Phlebas Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
And then there's my man Oscar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIkQNti8_EU

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#1395874 - 03/14/10 10:09 PM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: argerichfan]
Horowitzian Online   blank
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8125
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
[...] but the later RCA recordings of Liszt -B minor Ballade, Mephisto Waltz, Sonata- are a real trial. His constant filling in of the bass gets very tiresome on the ear, and I frankly hear no reason behind his complete rewrite of these masterpieces.

[...]


Ya gotta love his Mad Scientist period. smokin
_________________________
~H

Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1395875 - 03/14/10 10:10 PM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: Phlebas]
Inlanding Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 1110
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Phlebas
And then there's my man Oscar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIkQNti8_EU


Yes, of course! Oscar shares the number one spot on my list along with Tatum for sure.

He also held Tatum in the highest regard.

I saw Oscar Peterson in 1977 = First time I saw someone almost play a piano off its legs, and it was a Bosie. I remember so clearly to this day watching/listening to him play - astonishing!

Glen
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Feb BoxNet

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#1395882 - 03/14/10 10:15 PM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: argerichfan]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3202
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: argerichfan

By contrast, I cannot think of any Argerich recording which misses the mark in such grand style as the Horowitz recordings mentioned above. Yes, her Chopin G minor Ballade gets a bit dodgy (how many cups of coffee, Martha?), and the live recordings of the Tchaikovsky tend to be on the fast side. But the music can certainly take it...


yes, but we were talking about dead pianists, not living ones..
I just bought tickets for her Carnegie Hall concert in april 2011!! She will be playing Beethoven's First piano concerto. The problem is I am pretty sure she won't show up.. She is playing with Seiji Ozawa, who was just diagnosed with esophageal cancer..I wish him well but that disease is not a good player..And she is not one to switch conductors last minute..

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#1395897 - 03/14/10 10:23 PM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: Andromaque]
argerichfan Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 7230
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
The problem is I am pretty sure she won't show up.. She is playing with Seiji Ozawa, who was just diagnosed with esophageal cancer..I wish him well but that disease is not a good player..And she is not one to switch conductors last minute..

And probably no chance of bringing in Claudio Abbado or Charles Dutoit.

Sorry to note the news about Ozawa... frown
_________________________
Jason

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#1395942 - 03/14/10 11:23 PM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: Keith D Kerman]
WhoDwaldi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 192
Loc: Magic City
Joyce Hatto--she played like everybody else, combined! smile

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#1395996 - 03/15/10 12:56 AM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: WhoDwaldi]
Horowitzian Online   blank
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8125
grin
_________________________
~H

Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1396004 - 03/15/10 01:20 AM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: Horowitzian]
Damon Online   happy
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 4090
Loc: St. Louis area
Let's not forget Richard Kastle!

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#1396018 - 03/15/10 02:08 AM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: cast12]
jscomposer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 535
Loc: The Boogie Down
Nora! I can playz teh pianos...



And Tom, of course...

_________________________
Joshua Seth plays Joshua Seth

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#1396026 - 03/15/10 02:35 AM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: Mark_C]
Jacksonious Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 3
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: carey
Chico Marx !! grin

Well of course!



(OK anybody, beat that!!!) ha


My heart is still beating from watching that! That was definitely one of the most stylish performances I've ever seen. Just plain cool, anyways.

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#1396049 - 03/15/10 04:19 AM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: Jacksonious]
tuner2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 125
Some might find this hard to believe but, Peter Nero was one of Vladimir Horowitz's personal favorites when it came to pianists.
_________________________
Retired Concert Technician

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#1396274 - 03/15/10 12:08 PM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: tuner2]
carey Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 3666
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: tuner2
Some might find this hard to believe but, Peter Nero was one of Vladimir Horowitz's personal favorites when it came to pianists.


Its nice to know that Mr. Horowitz had excellent taste !! Nero was very very good at playing a certain style of music - and he had a solid classical background.


Edited by carey (03/15/10 12:09 PM)

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#1396281 - 03/15/10 12:19 PM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: carey]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 15850
Loc: Oakland
There have been and continue to be great pianists who do not normally play what is called "classical" music. The greatest pianist I ever heard was probably Dorothy Donegan, who wove Mendelssohn and Rachmaninoff together while playing circles around Charles Brown.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#1396331 - 03/15/10 01:45 PM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: tuner2]
Horowitzian Online   blank
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8125
Originally Posted By: tuner2
Some might find this hard to believe but, Peter Nero was one of Vladimir Horowitz's personal favorites when it came to pianists.


Indeed that was the case!
_________________________
~H

Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1396365 - 03/15/10 02:38 PM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: Jacksonious]
riley80 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/08
Posts: 219
Loc: Florida
Chico Marx - made my day!! Thanks for posting.

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#1396406 - 03/15/10 03:32 PM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: riley80]
tuner2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 125
On a related side-note, I played the piano for Maestro Horowitz once. That was a day to remember, that's for certain.
_________________________
Retired Concert Technician

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#1396408 - 03/15/10 03:33 PM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: tuner2]
Horowitzian Online   blank
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8125
Do tell, do tell!!! smile
_________________________
~H

Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1396415 - 03/15/10 03:40 PM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: carey]
argerichfan Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 7230
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: tuner2
Some might find this hard to believe but, Peter Nero was one of Vladimir Horowitz's personal favorites when it came to pianists.


Its nice to know that Mr. Horowitz had excellent taste !! Nero was very very good at playing a certain style of music - and he had a solid classical background.

Peter Nero giving us some delectable Moszkowski. Yes, he could certainly get around the piano in grand style.
_________________________
Jason

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#1396416 - 03/15/10 03:42 PM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: argerichfan]
Horowitzian Online   blank
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8125
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: tuner2
Some might find this hard to believe but, Peter Nero was one of Vladimir Horowitz's personal favorites when it came to pianists.


Its nice to know that Mr. Horowitz had excellent taste !! Nero was very very good at playing a certain style of music - and he had a solid classical background.

Peter Nero giving us some delectable Moszkowski. Yes, he could certainly get around the piano in grand style.


Thanks! I had seen the Chopin Op. 10 No. 4 video, but not that one. smile

_________________________
~H

Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1396420 - 03/15/10 03:45 PM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: Horowitzian]
stores Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 5332
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Jesus! How hard is it to hold a camera still?
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity...

-Debussy
♪ ≠ $


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#1396422 - 03/15/10 03:46 PM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: stores]
Horowitzian Online   blank
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8125
Very, if you are vainly attempting to do it by hand without the benefit of a Steadicam.
_________________________
~H

Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1396472 - 03/15/10 05:07 PM Re: Who was the greatest pianist ever? [Re: Horowitzian]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 15850
Loc: Oakland
A lot of "popular" and "jazz" musicians would be fine "classical" musicians if they wanted to.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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