Hello! I'm quite new here and looking for a bit of help.

I sing and play several instruments and have a B.A. in music. I play bass (had a few years of lessons playing jazz on bass while in school but wasn't my major instrument) and recently decided to put the piano I inherited from my mother to use (as if my wife teaching lessons wasn't enough!)

I'm really bad at reading on a grand staff and I really like playing jazz on bass so I figured I'd have a go at getting proficient at comping from fakebooks. I actually started with the Essential Elements Jazz Piano book my wife has been using with one of her students and have learned quite a bit. I've been playing mostly blues out of this book as well as the Aebersold Vol. 2.

Yesterday, I decided to pull a fakebook out and turned to St. Thomas to practice coming up with my own voicings. The first chord is just a C triad. I've tried all I could. Just playing the triad sounds boring and flat. When I try to add a 7th or the upper extensions, it just sounds like there's too much tension. I've looked all I can and can't seem to find anything about voicing chords when all you're given is a triad other than "You can add the upper extensions."

I'm really having a good time doing this but I really want to start playing some of my favorites! I know there are going to be plenty more maj/min triads to play. What do some of you do with triads?

Just add the six if it sounds like too much tension. Are you playing rootless left hand voicings or the bass with melody and chord notes in your right? E-A-D as rootless left hand should probably sound ok.

Hi bassman, welcome to the forum and it must be exciting to expand your jazz to another instrument.
What do you mean by tension ? Do you mean "too thick sounding" or do you mean "dissonant" ? As KK said, the 6th reduces tension. Also the 4th tends to produce a more mellow sound.
I used to think certain jazz chords sounded dissonant, but now I think they sound harmonious. You can try b5 and #5, and voice them. These alterations sound open to me.
I'm working on making the 9 (2) extension sound more open.
A beautiful chord you can try that won't sound tense is major 7th sharp 11th. You can play the root C with your LH. With your RH you can play sus 4 triad on major 7th (1 4 5 b7 on B), that is B, E, F#, A. You can voice this chord numerous ways including overlapping your hands. You can see that the F#, in effect the b5 of C major, lends itself to endless possibilities.

I'd like to clarify my response above.
To be strictly correct, I meant sus 4 triad ADD 5 on major 7th. It is the ADD 5 (ie the F#) on B which will give you the interesting #11 (b5) sound on C.

Also I need to get out of the pop mentality where I play the chords with my right hand. With jazz, you can let the bass play the C, and with your LEFT HAND play the chord B E F# A, which will allow your right hand to be freed up for the melody.

I've just ordered Dave Frank's Joy of Improvisation which will provide me with a methodology to help me think jazz and to speed up my learning process.

http://www.davefrankjazz.com/books_vid/books_videos.html

Here you seem to be saying that a major 7th chord includes a b7 note. I'm sure you didn't intend to.

OK Studio Joe, thanks for picking me up on that. I should have chosen a better example. How about Ab maj 7 sharp 11 ? The right hand would play G C D F.

Sometimes a triad is all it takes. It goes by so quickly in St Thomas that it doesn't need to be too fancy.

A first-inversion triad does the trick for me. Adding the 6 can be nice, like: E G A C. Adding the 9 to that sounds good to me too: E G A D.

Sorry about responding so late. I was out late last night and then was up early this morning for work.

Thanks for the suggestions! Yes, adding the 7th and other extensions on the triad sounds too thick and dissonant. Just tried the tune with adding a 6th to the triad and really liked it! I guess I still have a way to go before I'm really thinking through all the possibilities when presented with a chord symbol.

wavelength's suggestion is good.
It took me ages to work out that if you want variety, you can choose a chord from another "family group" if it has predominantly the same characteristics.
So for wavelength's last example, you can substitute the C major chord for Bb maj7,#11 - you can get the bass player to play Bb, with your LH you can play E G A D, and with your RH you can play the melody.
And for my Ab maj 7,#11 example - you can get the bass player to play Ab, with your left hand you can play G C D F, and with your RH you can play the melody.
In both examples your LH utilises notes in the C major scale.
Take your time to explore different types of chords from various family groups, and to choose which ones you think sound kool with C major.

Keep it as simple as possible - and open - just 2 or 3 note chords.

I heard the guys from Steely Dan talking about a similar issue--how to play more interesting harmonies that work in a rock context. They said one of their favorite solutions was what they called the Mu chord, basically a triad with an added 9 (but no 7).

One thing to consider is what quality the chord is supposed to possess. If it is a static chord, or acting like one, ie I, vi, iii, then you need to be careful about what you add to it. Mostly a 9 (2nd note of the maj scale) or the 6th would usually be ok, but it all depends on the context. For the V chords though, you have many choices. It all has to do with tension and release, or consonance and dissonance, stability and movement, etc etc. The tension chords (Vs) are all about color and voice leading where the static chords are about stability, and you don't want to make them less stable by adding notes that don't belong.

Thanks scep, I've never thought about it that way before.
Usually when I read a lead sheet, I supply my own extension/alteration, regardless of the chord quality, depending on what I feel like at the time.
What about the 4th ? To me, it sounds quite stable like the 6th.

Adding a 4th to a major chord gets into some really odd stuff. Even adding a #4 (perhaps that's what you meant?) is not really advised unless you treat it like an internal voice that must resolve somewhere. A chord like Cmaj#4 is very pretty depending on how you voice it, but like I said, you need to understand, or convey that you understand, that every note in the chord serves some sort of purpose such as movement or stability.
There is no crime in experimenting with different notes added to chords, but it saves time to have a purpose in mind I think.

Yeah scep, before I started jazz, I did pop fusion e.g. Steely Dan does add 4s but mainly to minor rather than major chords I believe.
I agree that #4 really needs to resolve.

Absolutely right. Fourths on minor chords can always sound great. In fact if voiced right they often modernize the sound ie playing from L to R C G F Bb Eb for Cmin7

Just tried your sequence for a 4th on minor and some voicings, yup, sounds good.

So are you saying that the 4th only sounds weird with major ?

Here is an example of a 4th with dominant: the modern sounding beautiful 11th (4th)chords e.g. 13 sus 4 is essentially a dominant triad (C G Bb) for C7 plus an extension of 2 4 13 (D F A) ?

Let's not confuse Major chords with Dominant chords, both of which may have a major third that defines their sound. To the point one would NEVER use a perfect fourth in a Major chord, but may do so in a type of Dominant Chord (which is probably defined by how the b7th resolves (or not in the case of some modern jazz or even blues which is all about Dominant chords)

So, I think we both agree that putting an F in a C Major chord will most likely sound wrong, or it will actually change it into a C/F chord, leaving C major and now actually being an F chord ie the CEFG would be the V, VII I and IX of F. Clear as mud?

This guy (scep)is clearly an idiot.

What he meant to say is that the 4th note CAN be used in a Major chord, but it is pretty hard to pull off. voicing it higher on the piano EFGC actually produces a very hip sound, as does FGCE with a C in the bass in both cases. The F will have a slight dissonant sound to it, but when you move to almost any other chord, diatonic or otherwise, the resolution takes care of itself.

So Custard, I've learned something tonight: Don't take anything for granted, and watch out who you listen to for advice because they may only have a limited understanding of things.

And for others that may be looking at this thread-- the 4th note in a Major chord is USUALLY a bad idea, but treated correctly may be the most interesting thing you can add.

lol scep, so you start talking about yourself in the 3rd person when it's late at night.
I'm going to try the voicings tomorrow.
btw when I had a jazz teacher for a brief period, he suggested I practice scales in octaves, thirds, fourths and fifths. I liked the sound of the fourths !
But when I tried improvising, I used to think YUCK when I randomly hit a 4th. I think I was mostly in major keys.

Well, strictly speaking a 4th is a passing tone usually if you are playing a 'normal' major triad, so no doubt it didn't sound great to you in that context. It's when you decide to become more dense in your voicings and extensions that the 4th can sometimes be used.

I agree scep, I was playing around with 4ths yesterday, and they sounded good with the thick block chords.