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#1988979 - 11/20/12 02:42 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
Damien Salvador Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/19/12
Posts: 7
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: dewster

Looking at the manual, I'm not certain but it seems like you might be able to do simultaneous MIDI playback and WAV recording directly on the AP450.

I must say the manual is not easy to understand ... the more so because there is no screen, and buttons are used for several functions smile
I was able to make a wav record of a midi record of something I played, but was unable to make the DP accept the .mid file as a recorded song (it is a .DSC file, and it does not look like the .CM2 format of casio midi ...)

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#1989812 - 11/22/12 02:35 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: Damien Salvador]
Damien Salvador Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/19/12
Posts: 7
Loc: France
After unsuccessfully trying the mid to wav conversion (I learned the midi file format in the process so it's not lost time) I made a new recording on my main computer. Many plug conversions were necessary (I only had RCA jack with enough cable length) but finally it's done. The result is here : dpbsd_v2.0_casio_ap450-2.mp3

Bye,

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#1989825 - 11/22/12 03:25 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: Damien Salvador]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4332
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Damien Salvador
After unsuccessfully trying the mid to wav conversion (I learned the midi file format in the process so it's not lost time) I made a new recording on my main computer. Many plug conversions were necessary (I only had RCA jack with enough cable length) but finally it's done. The result is here

The noise floor is much better, but for some reason the stretch test is missing?
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1989865 - 11/22/12 05:20 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
Damien Salvador Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/19/12
Posts: 7
Loc: France
ooops, which test is it ? did I cut It at the beginning or end ? I'm making it ... again smile

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#1989868 - 11/22/12 05:37 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
Damien Salvador Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/19/12
Posts: 7
Loc: France
Indeed, I must have accidentaly cut a part of the file. Here it is again : dpbsd_v2.0_casio_ap450-3.mp3

Hope it is ok, this time

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#1989998 - 11/23/12 07:44 AM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
kiedysktos. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 425
Loc: Europe, Poland
Dewster, I have a proposition.

When I think about all these pianos, sometimes I get lost which one has which technology, and also sometimes when I look at sample lengths I forget what other pianos had. Also some people here may not have such technical mind to see some things as clear as you do. So my proposition is to make some kind of ranking or tech tree for pianos.

Pianos could have 0-10 note for technical aspects such as loop lengths, stretching amount, velocity layers, velocity blending quality, pedal effect and some of most important tests, eventually frequency and timbre balance (to point out pianos with weird timbre issues). 10 is no looping, 8 velocity layers etc. It could sum up to overall TECHNICAL pianos ranking or tech tree, which will of course not mean that playing experience will give you same conclusions. But it will give us and novice buyers nice and quite objective overview.

You already did the judgment, but it's verbal and in this way hard to gather in one place, like table, tree or ranking; also less understandable than numbers.

Other thing, much more controversial, would be adding keyboard quality note: for progressiveness, weight, sensor numbers. I'm not sure is this good idea, since it may start keyboard discussion war.
_________________________
Roland FP-4

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#1990032 - 11/23/12 11:23 AM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: Damien Salvador]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4332
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Damien Salvador
Hope it is ok, this time

Looks good, thanks!

Originally Posted By: kiedysktos.
Dewster, I have a proposition...

I've been asked this via PM a couple of times lately, and would love to comply, but I can't see exactly how.

If the text reviews were more numeric it would make more sense, but they are rather comment driven without rigid categories beyond pro/con/other, and Excel isn't the best at that kind of thing.

Many tests are pass / fail, stretching could be a ratio, attacks and decays are numeric. But there are too many caveats / qualifiers / things to say about almost everything. People might ask for (or I might be tempted to include) some math on the numbers for a grand score, but DPs are such balls of wax I'm kind of against one number summing them all up (rather like IQ, which is absurd on its face).

The DPBSD is really more of a no-go test for a DP you are already seriously considering buying, and not so much a pre shopping weeder. After reading the review you should download the MP3 and critically listen to it (particularly the looping, stretching, and layering tests) so you can make your own esthetic judgements (i.e. can you likely tolerate long term the way they've processed the sample set).
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1990215 - 11/24/12 04:34 AM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Dewster, there in in this topic about hammer delay we are discussing Casio's highly advertised new(?) hammer delay simulation. I can't see Hammer Delay was directly explored by DPBSD tests so far, but they could possibly significant information about DP quality. It could even help to differentiate between DP component quality separating keyboard and sound synthesis.

To determine is simply the time difference between MIDI Note ON Event and actual sound Attack time.

Time offsets between ppp and fff attack time of the same note: after Casio, there should be a consequent increasing delay from ppp to fff. Measuring Attack Delay for each single note should produce an increasing series of delay values for ppp,pp,p,mf,f,ff,fff. For each of these velocities should be a consequent delay series over all of 88 keys. Ideally, it should give a decreasing value from Low to High notes within one velocity.

If this kind of consequency check failes, it could reveal a contributor to overall jitter, which effects not only playability but even rendering too!

If this Hammer Delay behaviour is not measureable for a DP (ideally overall constant (low) delay values then) it could still be implemented within it's keyboard module and the delayed time values are delivered then to both internal sound synthesis module input and MIDI output.

Time Delay measurement could give important informations especially about SW Instrument: if they include such a Hammer Delay simulation, the MIDI keyboard input should not have it or otherwise it would result in a doubled effect.(It should then be possible to turn effect off at least on one side).

Time Delay Consistency Analysis could include:
Same note should produce constant timing for the same MIDI event.
Effect of repetitions to delay: should not have any impact on delay.
Playing a tone within a chord: should not have any impact on delay.

You have just the AP450 MP3s - do You see it possible to apply some of these measurements with current MIDI? (Or perhaps Yo have some of them built in already I have just overlooked). Thanx. Attila
_________________________
Acoustic: own clavichord!, Burger&Jacoby,Biel (nice vintage vertical)
Digital: CA65; Pianoteq; Sampled:Galaxy VintageD+Vienna(Bösendorfer)
Sampletekk Black,PMI, etc...
Harpsi: Beurmann Dutch+Sampletekk, Clavichord:PMI+Wavelore+organs

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#1990347 - 11/24/12 02:32 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2319
Loc: UK
I think you can change a variable related to hammer delay on some Roland keyboards? FP7F comes to mind.

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#1991202 - 11/26/12 06:10 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4332
Loc: Northern NJ
Yamaha P35



Just in time for the Xmas season, PW forum member "1John" has supplied us with DPBSD MP3 of the new Yamaha P35! The MP3 (and pix) are of the default piano voice "Grand Piano 1". Those interested can also listen to the compressed layer test:

PIX: http://www.mediafire.com/?6blnhmfvd62bhoe
MP3: http://www.mediafire.com/?6s08mtkzmgz6rzw
MP3: http://www.mediafire.com/?jvo25kghymq0pjx (100:1 compressed layer test)

1John has this to say about the P35:

Originally Posted By: 1John
I've been pretty happy with the P-35. The onboard speakers are only mediocre, and don't sound as good as the P-105. It's still pretty reasonable for this price point though, and doesn't cry out as being bad. I bought it with software piano it mind, and so not that concerned about internal sound generation, but I still often just plug headphones into it for practicing and have been happy with that.

I haven't really played with the other voices much at all, so can't say much about them. I'd be guessing they might be the same as the P-95.

To me the keyboard feels very much like the rest of the current GHS keyboards, and alongside the P-105 at the store I couldn't tell a difference in key feel. It may not be the most realistic, but I find it a pleasant feel. I did prefer the P-155 and CLP-430, but that's a totally different price range.

Analysis reveals fairly typical Yamaha sound technology for this price range. No pedal or key sympathetic resonance; attacks are short; loops are short and quivery / bland sounding and lacking any realistic interbeating or "wobble"; pretty stretched with 29 samples covering 88 notes; stretch group transitions are audible over most of the range.

Looking at the pan and phase views of the layer test doesn't indicate any velocity switching, but the uniform waveform view of this test reveals that this is a single layer sample set. Which doesn't mean there isn't significant timbre variation with velocity, there is over much of the range and it sounds fairly realistic, but it could perhaps be distributed more realistically because the highest 1/3 of velocity range doesn't have much variation. Overall the P35 seems pretty similar to the P85/95 but with somewhat longer decay lengths.

Poking through my past analysis pix archives, the P35 appears to share the same base sample session as the ~$800 USD Yamaha DGX-640. The P35 is currently selling for ~$450, for ~$150 more you could get the P-105 which has multiple layers, pedal sympathetic resonance, and better speakers, though the same GHS keyboard action and the same amount of stretching. Also in the $600 category is the Casio PX-150, which has pedal sympathetic resonance, 4 layers of longer samples, somewhat less stretching, and arguably better keys, though the speaker system is perhaps not as good as the P-105. The low end is kind of a tough place for shoppers (truth be told the mid and high ends aren't much easier).

Muchas gracias to 1John for this timely DPBSD MP3!

Some analysis pix and text review:


Figure 1. Spectral pan view of the pedal sympathetic resonance test, pedal down @ left, pedal up @ right, stimulus removed, normalized to -1dB. No pedal sympathetic resonance visible or audible.


Figure 2. Waveform view of the entire looping test, vertical zoom applied to see the noise floor. Note decay is long over the low end, rather short over the rest of the range.


Figure 3. Spectral phase view of the layer test, highly compressed. No visible or audible layer switches. You can listen to this as a separate MP3 file (listed above).


Figure 4. Spectral frequency view of the layer test. There is significant timbre variation, but not a lot at the upper end of velocity where you might expect it.


Figure 5. Waveform view of the layer test. Uniformity of the waveform throughout the test indicates a single layer is employed.



Figures 6a & 6b. Spectral phase view of the stretch test, mid notes, normalized to -1dB to increase clarity, P35 top, DGX-640 bottom. Sonic "fingerprint" match indicates these two models share the same sample session. 29 stretch groups are clearly visible and audible over most of the range.


--------------
- Yamaha P35 -
--------------
FILE & SETUP:
- dpbsd_v2.0_yamaha_p35.mp3
- yamaha_p35_layers_comp.mp3
- Recorded using MusE, Lexicon Lambda, LAME encode to MP3.
- This is the first patch: "Grand Piano 1".
- Recorded by "1John".
PROS:
- Passes the silent replay test.
- Passes the quick partial damping test.
- Passes the late pedal partial damping test up to the test limit of 0.5 seconds.
- Passes the half pedaling test.
- Low note decays are fairly long (~Pianoteq), mids and highs could be longer (~1/2 Pianoteq).
CONS:
- Fails the pedal sympathetic resonance test.
- Fails the key sympathetic resonance test.
- Partially damped notes don't sound "buzzy".
- Obviously looped, the loops sound static rather than "wobbly".
- Attack sample lengths are (C1:C8): 2.2,2.2,1.7,1.6,1.3,1.1,?,? seconds.
- Loop sample lengths are (C1:C8): 0.7,0.7,0.5,0.5,?,0.3,?,? seconds.
- Stretching is visible over the entire range, audible over the low and mid notes.
- Stretch distances: 2,3(x27),5 = 29 groups.
- No obvious key up or pedal down sound effects (via MIDI).
- I believe this is a single velocity layer sample set.
- Very little timbre variation in top 1/3 of velocity range.
OTHER:
- Phase "fingerprint" same sample session as DGX-640.
- Notes played @ vel=1 produce no sound.
- Dynamic range ~65dB (vel=1:127).
- Dampered | undampered transition: F#6 | G6.
- L&R are likely swapped in the recording.
- MP3 levels: peak @ -3.8dB, noise floor @ -80dB.
- Date reviewed: 2012-11-25
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1991268 - 11/26/12 10:54 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: Temperament]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4332
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Temperament
To determine is simply the time difference between MIDI Note ON Event and actual sound Attack time.

I agree that, given hammer physics, key action to sound event timing is critically important. But there is no way to really tell anything without video or some external timekeeper. MIDI alone is probably not enough.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1991315 - 11/27/12 04:28 AM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Not enough indeed, but could be telling. About possible quality issues (consistency) and about whether the claimed overall delay simulation was implemented in sound synthesis module or in keyboard mechanics/output. Important informations both when using the keyboard as a MIDI controller or when using an instrument with MIDI in as a sound generator.

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#1991340 - 11/27/12 06:12 AM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
kiedysktos. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 425
Loc: Europe, Poland
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Damien Salvador
Hope it is ok, this time

Looks good, thanks!

Originally Posted By: kiedysktos.
Dewster, I have a proposition...

I've been asked this via PM a couple of times lately, and would love to comply, but I can't see exactly how.

If the text reviews were more numeric it would make more sense, but they are rather comment driven without rigid categories beyond pro/con/other, and Excel isn't the best at that kind of thing.

Many tests are pass / fail, stretching could be a ratio, attacks and decays are numeric. But there are too many caveats / qualifiers / things to say about almost everything. People might ask for (or I might be tempted to include) some math on the numbers for a grand score, but DPs are such balls of wax I'm kind of against one number summing them all up (rather like IQ, which is absurd on its face).

The DPBSD is really more of a no-go test for a DP you are already seriously considering buying, and not so much a pre shopping weeder. After reading the review you should download the MP3 and critically listen to it (particularly the looping, stretching, and layering tests) so you can make your own esthetic judgements (i.e. can you likely tolerate long term the way they've processed the sample set).


I agree you can't judge pianos using numbers, but I think you can judge TECHNICAL aspect of sample sets. Of course it would be general and include some simplifications, but for some people this thread may be too complicated to look; their alternative is to not look in DPBSD at all. General note (or a few of them) may also be nice intro to further analysis.

Anyway, even if you want to avoid such thing, it may be nice idea to consequently add short verbal summary to every test.
_________________________
Roland FP-4

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#1991549 - 11/27/12 03:04 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: kiedysktos.]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4332
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: kiedysktos.
I agree you can't judge pianos using numbers, but I think you can judge TECHNICAL aspect of sample sets. Of course it would be general and include some simplifications, but for some people this thread may be too complicated to look; their alternative is to not look in DPBSD at all. General note (or a few of them) may also be nice intro to further analysis.

Anyway, even if you want to avoid such thing, it may be nice idea to consequently add short verbal summary to every test.

Thanks for your comments, I do appreciate any feedback!

I think I'm pretty much including short verbal summaries, as well as owner's comments, and further clarification in the form of both pictures and picture captions. If people are afraid of or turned off by specs they probably don't visit this thread much anyway. I could certainly do more to collect things in one spot, but there is the clickable list in the first post, as well as the text file of compiled reviews at the share point that people can consult and pretty much do whatever they want with. Beyond that I'm kind of out of time lately and currently have something of a backlog going just about every project I'm involved with.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1992575 - 11/29/12 07:53 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8847
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
dewster, to be honest, I think the current format is fine.

While I can understand the desire from others for you to include a 'marks out of ten' scoring system, I believe this may undermine the objective nature of the tests.

After all, the intention of the DPBSD is to provide technical analysis of sound, rather than a subjective review.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1992578 - 11/29/12 08:05 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3779
Loc: North Carolina
That "the intention of the DPBSD is to provide technical analysis of sound, rather than a subjective review" is precisely what limits its usefulness. There's a wealth of data ... and very little useful information.

Though I would not expect to choose a piano based on the information here, it **could** help people narrow their field of search ... if only it were more accessible.

I really think it would help to have a summarized view. Each piano could be judged on a short list of criteria, and each would get a score on each criterion. The scores would be based on the collected DPBSD data.

This summary would not introduce ambiguity or subjectivity. Instead it would drive usability.

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#1993278 - 12/01/12 05:01 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: Temperament]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Quote:
dewster: I agree that, given hammer physics, key action to sound event timing is critically important. But there is no way to really tell anything without video or some external timekeeper. MIDI alone is probably not enough.
Quote:
Temperament: Not enough indeed, but could be telling. About possible quality issues (consistency) and about whether the claimed overall delay simulation was implemented in sound synthesis module or in keyboard mechanics/output. Important informations both when using the keyboard as a MIDI controller or when using an instrument with MIDI in as a sound generator.
I did some "light weight" measurements of MIDI timing and hammer delay simulation just as proposed. I did just want to see, how big issue Time Delay in reality was and whether it would be worth to be explored further for all of tested instruments (e.g. by extending the DPBSD test). Here is a short summary of my results (without documenting them in detail).

Methods:
I took the DPBSD MIDI 2.0 file and the corresponding audio rendering output from it with following instruments:
  • Casio PX-350 (as found in the DPBSD Public Library)
  • Galaxy Vintage-D 1.2 (Produced by own Instrument)
  • Pianoteq 4.20 (Produced by own Instrument)
  • Roland rd-700nx (as found in the DPBSD Public Library)
I used Reaper, arranged the MIDI Track and graphical audio track Windows beneath of it.
I made an optical comparison of MIDI events and the delay times to the Attack they produced.
I estimate a sensitivity (precision) of my method of <= 3ms.
I used the DPBSD2.0 sequences of MIDI events
a.) of the same C4 note with increasing velocities from 1 to 127,
b.) 88 keys Note On with the same velocity
I looked at time offests between the MIDI event and corresponding audio attack.

Results:
All tested MIDI processors produced sound with no detectable delay (i.e. beyond the precision threshould of the simple methods above).

Conclusions:
1. I couldn't find any specific hammer delay simulation with these MIDI to Sound processors.
Especially,
  • no decreasing delays for the increasing key sequence could be detected
  • no decreasing delays with increasing velocity on the same key could be detected
  • no incosistent (variable) delay behaviour could be detected
2. Even Casio's PX350 MIDI Synthesis Module didn't included any hammer delay simulation,
3. consequently, if Hammer Delay simulation is implemented, it should be originated completely from the Keyboard Action Output (as Casio actually claimed).
4. If Hammer Delay simulation is implemented with a DP's Keyboard Module, this feature can safely be used in connection with SW-Instruments (provided they behave like the tested ones).
5. Time Delay and its consistency in MIDI Synthesis is probably not a general quality issue for most DP-s I guess.

As a general conclusion I wouldn't regard it now very important to include MIDI Time Delay Check in the DPBSD project, but these results could perhaps be corroborated by some more precise tools and measurements.

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#1993422 - 12/01/12 10:25 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: MacMacMac]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4332
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
I really think it would help to have a summarized view. Each piano could be judged on a short list of criteria, and each would get a score on each criterion. The scores would be based on the collected DPBSD data.

It's an open project and everyone has the same access to the base data as I do. If you want to take some aspect of it in a different direction nothing is stopping you.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1993541 - 12/02/12 07:34 AM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
Temperament Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 424
Loc: Hun,EU
Thx, James, I am pleased to learn it now! This information was based on following statements by dewster in his very recent DPBSD review for (the elderly) ES6:
Originally Posted By: dewster
Kawai ES6 Review....Neither pedal nor key sympathetic resonance are present during MIDI playback (this seems to be typical of Kawai DPs) so to evaluate them bajabill manually played the tests and recorded them to the second MP3 file listed above.... Since this issue arises rather often I've added manual sympathetic resonance testing instructions to the dpbsd readme file.
....
- Date reviewed: 2012-09-05.[/font]
It could be perhaps helpful, James, if You could clarify since when Kawai models should definitely not expose this issue anymore. (Since CAx3 and CNx3 or just since CAx5 and CNx4?)

I would ask dewster then to edit his general remark which in this form could be a bit misleading - his excellent DPBSD page is a most visited central source of information about DPs.

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#1993554 - 12/02/12 08:21 AM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8847
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
I believe since the CNx3 and CAx3 were introduced.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2001032 - 12/18/12 07:19 AM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2392
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
1,000,000 views and counting. Wow!! Congratulations Dewster and thank you.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#2001228 - 12/18/12 03:04 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: EssBrace]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4332
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
1,000,000 views and counting. Wow!! Congratulations Dewster and thank you.

Thanks Steve!

Sincere thanks to all who have contributed DPBSD MP3s, and to all who find this thread useful.



Sugary, diabetes inducing DP cake all around! Cheap Champagne on the house!



Happy Holidays Everyone!
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#2007088 - 12/31/12 02:27 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
Photofan1986 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/31/12
Posts: 2
Hello people!
I'm new to this fantastic forum, and I have a question about the CP50.
I'm using the new firmware (1.2) and I noticed something strange.
When I'm playing the CF piano, I noticed that there is a big difference between all the keys under G6 and above this note.
The note decay is very short for anything under G6, but at this point, there is some kind of reverb added to the sound.
It's clearly audible when the reverb function is set to off.
It only happens with the acoustic piano sound, but I find it very annoying.
Do you think it's Yamaha's answer to the critics about the very short decay in the high notes?
Now it's even worse, because it sounds very artificial.

Any comments would be welcome. Thanks in advance!

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#2007146 - 12/31/12 05:01 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: Photofan1986]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4332
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Photofan1986
When I'm playing the CF piano, I noticed that there is a big difference between all the keys under G6 and above this note.
The note decay is very short for anything under G6, but at this point, there is some kind of reverb added to the sound.
It's clearly audible when the reverb function is set to off.
It only happens with the acoustic piano sound, but I find it very annoying.

From the DPBSD test notes (see the OP):

10. The highest keys on a real piano have no damper mechanism. The decay time for these notes is so short that a damper probably wouldn't affect playing much, and undamped strings are sympathetic resonant elements that can add richness to the sound of other played notes. The transition point between dampered and undampered is somewhere between D6 and A6. So obviously notes played above this point should not damp at key up (and obviously the damper pedal should have no influence over these notes either). Almost all digital pianos mimic this behavior by not damping the note at key-up (but probably very few model the sympathetic resonance element).
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#2007351 - 01/01/13 06:58 AM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
Photofan1986 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/31/12
Posts: 2
Great, Dewster! Many thanks for this. I played on a friend's Yamaha p115 or something similar last night and noticed the same behaviour. I don't have much experience with acoustic pianos so I was a bit scared when I heard this.
You reassure me!
Have a nice day and happy new year to all!

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#2011429 - 01/08/13 08:34 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
Yannie Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/11/12
Posts: 4
Loc: Chicago, IL
Nobody has uploaded the Kawai Ca95 or Ca65 yet??? I'm dying to see the review!

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#2011496 - 01/08/13 11:59 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: Yannie]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4332
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Yannie
Nobody has uploaded the Kawai Ca95 or Ca65 yet??? I'm dying to see the review!

Very sorry, due to my digital Theremin research (hung up on simulating transformer based LC tanks) there's something of a backlog going with the DPBSD project. The CA95 is in the pipe (along with the ES7). Hopefully this month.
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The DPBSD Project!
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#2029349 - 02/08/13 02:50 PM Re: The DPBSD Project! [Re: dewster]
Maxpiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/13/12
Posts: 27
Loc: Italy
Hey dewster, any news? 8)
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'Sometimes you have to play a long time to be able to play like yourself' (M. Davis)

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#2030283 - 02/10/13 06:54 AM Re: The DPBSD Project! PX850 [Re: dewster]
duinsel Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/09/13
Posts: 2
Loc: Netherlands
Hi,

I have a Casio PX850, and I have prepared an upload for it using the 2.0 midi file.
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?ks5fu1fow71nqo2

I understood that it was still missing from the collection from the opening post, and indeed I looked for it during my purchasing decision.
I am not very experienced in this stuff. I believe I prepared the file right, but let me know if modifications are required.
Procedure followed:
midi playing from PC to piano over USB midi link
Piano recording sound directly to WAV file.
Wav file converted to MP3 192 kBit using iTunes (VBR/CBR unknown).

Best,

Martijn

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#2030375 - 02/10/13 10:06 AM Re: The DPBSD Project! PX850 [Re: dewster]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4332
Loc: Northern NJ
Hi Martijn,

Got it! Levels are a bit low, but the noise floor looks good and it's in stereo.

I'll send you a PM soon.
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