Hi all,

What would be a good digital piano that is under $1500 (or higher with an acceptable reason) for a beginner? prefer Yamaha. P155, YDP223/160+/140+, or even CLP320/330/340? After days of research, I think I am more confused than before. Those model numbers are more dazzling than sudoku.


Any suggestions would be helpful.
Thanks in advance.

P-155 is probably your best bet under $1,500. I have a P-155 and it's quite nice, though it's best with headphones or external speakers, the built-in speakers are a little underwhelming.

Personally, I would have preferred a CLP-340 but wasn't willing to pay twice as much for a nicer case and better built-in speakers.

I bought a P155. But look at your needs. Some peole want more powerful speakers.

When I selected a DP I figured I wanted a Yamaha GH key action. So that meant a P155, YDP160 or223 or a CP33 or CP300. If you want the GH action you can cross off the YDP140 (it uses GHS)

Next I looked at the sample technology and as you'd guess the newer DPs use better technology inside. Of the group the P155 was the last model released by Yamaha and I think had better sound then the others. It had more sample llayers, key-off samples and so on. The YDP160 came close but i really hated the controls and figured I could never work them without a user manual at arms reach. The P155 and YDP223 had a row of easy to use buttons. The YDP223 had far better internal speakers but far older sample technology. But I mostly use headphones so speakers don't mater much to me. I did like the look of the console over the x-stand so I bought the Yamaha LP140 stand that matches the P155. I prefer the charcoal grey as it's a modern look that does not pretend to make a DP look like something it is not. That said, I might have bought a YDP if Yamaha had offered one with specs better than a P155. Some day they might but not yet. For now if you want a console that has P155 specs or better you need to look at the CLP line and get at least a CLP340 if you want 4-layer samples like the p155 has. But the CLP costs double and I don't care about speakers

Sounds like I'm tryig to sell you a P155. I'm not. Just expllaining my thinking. So maybe you say "I do care about speakers." or "three level samples are good enough" or "I'm smart enough to figure out the controls on a YDP160" and then you'd make a different decision. One guy here once said his wife insisted that any piano have a sliding key cover. That would eliminate the p155 and the entire CP series too.

Bottom line -- once you decide what is important and what's not you can quickly zero in on a model. for me is was GH action and good expressive sound with headphones and then price in that order.

To make your decision even harder, Yamaha is releasing a new series of DP. The CP1, CP5 and CP50. The CP50 might be perfect for you. I think the price is $1,500 and it will use GH key action and the next generation of sample technology over the P155 which should be quite a jump. But so far no one here has seen one yet.

P155 is the best of the bunch unless you can pick up a CP300 for under $2000

We just bought a P155 yesterday after going through a week or so of the same torture.

After being somewhat dazzled and confused by all the features on some of the models we decided to concentrate on just the instrument as a piano which made the decision easier. We also decided that though built in speakers were a requirement we didn't need anything fancy here as most of the practice time would be through headphones and if we wanted a fuller sound the piano will be sitting next to a higher end stereo in the living room anyway. We brought our best set of headphones with us for auditioning. The lack of speakers eliminated the CP33 and CP50 even though the former was available at some decent clearance prices. The CP300 was sold out.

Though aesthetics were not at the top of the list neither of us could stand the YDP "wood" work which pretty much eliminated them from the start -- they didn't really have anything on the P155 anyway. The casework of the CLP series would have been acceptable but still weren't really "our" style.

My wife and I are both beginners but we spent quite a bit of time both with the pianos and pestering the sales people and I think in terms of sound and feel we both thought the P155 came closest to both our expectations and budget. I thought with the CLP line the CLP340 was the cheapest model about the same level as the P155 but really out of our budget. All the CLP line had much better amplifier/speaker setups but through headphones the difference seemed to disappear.

My wife, niece, and I have only had a few hours since bringing it home but we all really like the sound and feel. It has a very solid, quality feel, and great piano sound. The internal speakers are anemic and it doesn't have all the do-dads but I think at the price point it is an excellent value. The P155B black model actually matches the home theater/stereo equipment very well and looks high quality.

Good Luck!
Doug

Great! Thanks for all your feedbacks and suggestions.

That was very helpful and it shortens my options list from dozens to two -- P155 and the incoming CP50. I guess the portability, sound quality (or how authentic it is), and the touch sensitivity are the things that I am looking for. So far, I've only tried P155 and it was great (better than most of others I had tried). I have not yet seen CP50 in any of the store showrooms (at least the ones I went to). I guess I'll wait a little bit longer for both the reviews and a tryout.

Though, based on the spec., what exactly are the pros/cons between these two models?

... someone please enlighten me. God, are you listening?


I am appreciated for all your helps.

Did you buy the matching LP140 stand or get something else? One of the reasons I went with the P155 was because of the availably of a custom stand that attaches with screws. Makes the piano very solid. I had used an x-stand with my previous keyboard but this LP140 is better.

As for the wimpy speakers, my next project is to replace the cross brace in the LP140 stand with a hollow box beam that fits right into the same screw holes. Then mount 8" speakers in the box. There are more steps after that but I can DIY a very powerful audio section for under $300. (and about 100 hours of time)

DavyC: My understanding is that, at least in Canada, the CP50 is to be delivered to stores Mar 31 with an expected street price of either 1799 or 1899 (can't recall which). From Yamaha's website the CP50 does not have it's own speakers and does use the same keybed as the P155, unlike the higher CP1&5 models. It has a bunch of features over the P155 including a lot more voices, the new sampling/modeling scheme for the piano, and a pitch blend wheel. The Yamaha guy said that the CP series use a metal frame that is more rugged for mobile/stage use. The CP50 is an upgrade to the CP33 I think.

Chris: I did not buy the stand as it just seemed excessive. I've got a wood shop and have to build new cabinets for the home theater system and it will be easy to build something for the piano to match. In the meantime I'm cutting down one of those cheap ikea-type desks to the right height. Good idea about building in the speakers to the piano stand -- I've recently upgraded all the home theater stuff and have a full set of old speakers and my amp has multiple zones so I wouldn't need to add a bulky amplifier.

Doug

I have a table saw and lots of wood working tools as well but the stand was an expedient and only a few bucks more then my cost of materials.

One thing if you do build a stand with hollow space for speakers is the engineering has to work out so you have the exact correct interior volume required by the drivers you select. while at the same time has to work as a stand, have knee room and so on. You have to find one set of dimensions that work for a stand and tune the drivers. The other thing is the musical instrument speakers are NOT like home stereo speakers - different rules apply.

I'm going with four drivers and one amp per driver with active crossover/EQ.

I'm not sure why you would say there's something different about the audio output of an all-electronic digital piano compared to any other audio equipment. The built-in paper cone 3x5 inch speakers are certainly no hi-tech marvel.

I'd think that bass response is the key since the lowest note is 27.5 hz which is well into the sub-woofer range and below the frequency response of many speakers. At any rate I haven't had a chance to do any experimenting.

Doug

I use a Logitech Z-2300 2.1 Stereo speaker system...this was meant to use with a PC, but many of us have discovered it works exceptionally well on a digital piano or an arranger keyboard.

Less than $200 and a remarkably good system for any digital piano...the low notes are astonishing...you can hear the "clank" of the bass strings.

I'm after buying three sets now...one for my Yamaha P-85 piano, one for my Yamaha PSR-S910 arranger keyboard, and another set for my computer.

Snazzy

Of couse the drivers work by the same llaws of physics. What I said the rules change, I meant really the goal changes. With hi-fi the goal of speaker is to produce a "sweet spot" of good stereo image at the listening position.

Musical instruments are different. A real grand piaano in you living room does NOT creat a setero image of itself over your sofa. No, it fill the room by projecting sound out in all directions. Same goes for a guitar or bass speaker

My goal is to create a piano that can play in a room and people can walk around in the room on al sides of the piano and it should always s sound like a piano. You can't do that with conventional stereo.

On the other hand if the only listener is the person playing then it is unlikely he will be moving around and none of this matters

I just liked to idea of the Yamaha Avent Grand N3 and think I can do 80% as good for 1/40th of the price.

What got me thinking about this was some old Hammon organ equipment I bought. Those old 1950's vintage tube based church organs were very convincing and could literally shake the walls of a huge building. I tried a garage experiment to connect an older Roland synth of some Hammond tube amps and speakers. Man, the power and dynamic range was great and for 60 year old tech. They just don't build like that today.

Oh, about the low 21Hz notes. Even on a large concert grand the lowest fundamental is 21Hz but the second harmonic is abut 20db higher the the fundamental. In other words even the 7ft grand has 90% of it's power above 40Hz. The wires even in a full size piano are not long enough for 21Hz. Human hearing deduces the 21Hz by listening to the harmonic sequence not by hearing it directly because it is not really there. So a 40Hz low end is good enough

I'm looking forward to doing some experimenting myself. Come to think of it I might still have a logitech 5.1 setup in a storage room since I got sick of all the cables and removed the speakers from the PC a couple years ago. The bass response from the logitech subwoofer has to be an order of magnitude better than the built-in sound system.

For hooking to the home stereo things can only get better: a modern 5.1/7.1 receiver has a lot more modes than simply stereo (mono would work for me) and with a decent setup can easily cover below 40HZ with no appreciable roll off. No tubes though which is a plus for me. Just plugging in a decent set of headphones shows that the built-in piano sound system is completely gimpy for bass response and I doubt we're getting close to -3db at 100HZ let alone 40.

We do love the piano and in all other aspects it's great. The speaker system bothers me far more than anyone else in the house and I did know it's short-comings before purchase. I also realize that there was only so much room in the case and I'd rather whine about this now than bitch later about the size of the thing.

Doug

The CP300 is an excellent stage piano, with really good, large speakers with a clean and uncoloured non-boomy sound. The CP300 is very popular with bands. I tried it out and it is definately on my list for my next purchase when I update my Roland HP in the very near future.
Also while I'm here, the CLP340 is a good one too. It has 2 by 40 watts of power - whereas lower models are underpowered in my opinion.

I don't know what the price will be ... but the specs look more like the predecessor $1000 YDP140. GHS keyboard, 20 W x 2 amps, 3-level sampling.

The $1200 YDP160 has better specs (though it lacks the LCD display), especially the better GH keyboard. Are you sure the YDPV240 will sell for $1800?

It appears that the new YDPV240 is aimed at those who want lots of voices. It has 131 ... plus XG voices and drum kits.

MacMacMac,

Yes, I get the impression that the V240 is intended as a very low-end CVP.

Cheers,
James
x

My suggestion:
Yamaha DGX-640 - won't break your bank and it is very beginner friendly: I find it nice to be practice with the built in rhythms in my YPG635, specially after spending hours trying to learn some difficult stuff (for me everything is difficult )

I think the Arius YDP-V240 sounds very interesting. I agree that it appears to be an sub entry level CVP Clavinova with the advantage that you can buy it on line. It's shown as currently in stock at a couple of dealers (zz, sweetwater) for $1800. That's another advantage over the Clavinovas, it doesn't have a secret price set by the dealer.

I want a 88 key console to replace my Celviano AP65. The AP65 isn't bad but I have a ton of registrations for my PSR-S910 and 3000 that I use for gigging and can't use them with the AP65. That's a big advantage for the YDP-V240 for me.

Ed (Out in the West Texas town of El Paso)

Oh, I forgot to mention that the 240 certainly isn't a replacement for the 140. the 240 is an ensemble kb ie: you can trigger bass, drums and harmonies with left hand chords using a variety of styles eg: rock, bossa nova etc. I gather that most here are piano only players but the styles are great for 1 or 2 man gigging. I play with a sax man and we can generate a lot music between us :-)

Also I mentioned registrations in my previous post. Registrations allow you to store style, tempo, split point, part volumes etc. I have a separate named reg for each song in our repertoire. Allows for a 1 button push to go from one song to another, great for keeping the dancers on the floor :-)

Ed