Chopin Ballade #1, Scherzo #1, or Heroic Polonaise?

I know difficulty depends on the pianist, but which of these are technically, or musically more challenging to you?

Ballade - Polonaise - Scherzo In descending difficulty

I personally find the polonaise the most difficult and the ballade the easiest, but that's mostly just because of how they fit my hands. My technique is a bit idiosyncratic...

I never understand questions like this.

For me: Different kinds of difficulties, not really comparable. But if we change it to "scary" rather than "difficult," I can say that to me the Ballade is by far the scariest simply because I'm freaked out by those scales at the end.

(Yes, scales.)

From a musical standpoint (as opposed to technical), I think there's little doubt that the Ballade is the most challenging.

It must be.

"Ballade the easiest"..........gulp.

ya it really sucks to play the ballade pretty well and then mess up the scales at the end...happened to me the first time I learned it.

Oh.......messing them up is no problem. Having a panic attack is the problem.

Mark your post made me chuckle because sometimes I ask my teacher about a piece to learn that I think is easy and he looks at me and says, that's actually a hard piece... What I realised was that my definition of "hard" was "technically hard" and his definition is "hard = anything from technically to musically hard".

It really opened my eyes to how woefully unmusical most people are. We ascribie greatness to how fast the fingers move or span of the hand, and the tone itself is second place.

He really floored me when he showed me that you can play staccato quarter notes with the pedal down and up per note to give a deeper feeling to them as in the notes in Beethoven's Op 14 no 1 Sonata.

You chuckle.
My hair stands on end.
Besides the "musical" vs. "technical" part, there's different kinds of difficulties which often aren't very comparable, plus, it seems that usually when people do threads like this, the pieces they're asking about are so close in their basic level that I really don't know why they're asking.

Usually, if they can play one of the pieces, they can play any of them. We don't need to worry at all about which is a little 'harder' or 'easier'; just play which one you feel like playing at the time.



.....and that's a whole nother level....but of course people never mean stuff like that when they ask how hard something is. That's "extra."

On the other hand, I'm glad so many people are just interested in pieces like this and that we have discussions of them here. So I guess my hair just stood off end.

Polonaise> scherzo>ballade

I practice scales all the time, so the ending is actually pretty easy for me. And since I play a lot of Brahms, the coda isn't too bad (although I don't try to play it too terribly fast.)

The polonaise is tricky for me because of the double note stuff, the little ornaments, and the octaves, which aren't my strong point. I also feel it's interpretively more difficult due to the large amount of repetition. The ballade seems more straightforward to me.

The Polonaise has more scales in it than the Ballade. Just sayin'.

(This is about the G minor Ballade.....)
I hear that all the time.

Maybe you're a person for whom that's a relevant way to look at it, but IMO most of the time that we hear that, it's not.

The thing about those scales is that they're not just "scales," unless someone has what I'd consider an unstylistic view of them.
They are dramatic sweeps.
It's the stuff you have to do with them that makes them hard, and intimidating.

I imagine maybe you're someone for whom that's no big issue either. But I think most people who think, "I can play scales fine, it's no problem" are missing the point.

Heroic Polonaise > Ballade #1 > Scherzo #1

And i join Mark_C comment about Ballade #1 they are not just scales they are dramatic sweeps. And you have to do them with the very different aspect.

I was waiting for someone to say that.
And, as luck would have it, there's an answer.
Actually several.

The clearest difference is that the second scale in the Ballade is in 10th's, not just octaves. IMO there are also other aspects of the scales in the ballade that make them harder, including the pauses before each of them, which are a double whammy. Starting from "rest" is harder, plus, the pause can have a "freezing" effect, like how in football they call a timeout before a FG to make the kicker "think about it." And also I think the musical/dramatic demands of the scales in the ballade are greater, but of course that's subjective. I know that both of these latter points are a little subtle, and debatable -- so I'll just emphasize the aspect of the 10th's, which is a lot in itself.

Cool!

Not if you practice scales dramatically and with a variety of touch and tempi.

Everything that Mark C said about scales is true - starting from silence and playing in 10ths. But an important part of practicing scales is paying attention to how you begin. I work quite a bit with my students on starting scales, managing the turnaround at the top, and ending them. And I practice my scales in 10ths.

But Mark is correct; for a lot of people, once you can play a scale mezzo-forte four octaves in 16th notes hands together at mm=120, you're done. But there are a LOT of things you can do with scale practice beyond that, and I personally have found it advantageous to do so.

I'd have to say Polonaise, Scherzo, Ballade (in order of difficulty).

I'm not VERY familiar with the Scherzo, but the Polonaise is sure harder than the Ballade.

Maybe I ought to try that.
I do practice scales in a variety of ways, including often in 10th, but I haven't done quite what you're saying.

The tally so far:
Polonaise winning for hardest, by a lot.
5 firsts and 1 second, no thirds.
Scherzo and Ballade basically tied for 2nd and 3rd.

I'm kinda surprised. Since I consider them about the same level, I figured it would be all over the map, and to the extent that I can rank them at all if you put a gun to my head I'd pick the Ballade for hardest. And the Scherzo IMO in a way is the hardest of all, because (sort of like a lot of Scriabin) I consider it mostly atmosphere -- it's not just playing the notes, but creating an atmosphere -- and that's a huge challenge.

Cliff's Notes: They're all the same, but I'm the only one who thinks so.

Both technically and musically, I think the g minor Ballade is the hardest. I believe that the opening of the Coda is harder than anything in the Scherzo or the Polonaise. As for the Scherzo and the Polonaise, it may depend on what you happen to be good at. The Scherzo focuses mainly on running passages, while the Polonaise focuses mainly on big chordal playing and octaves.

I'm confused... People think that the scales at the end of the Ballade are the hardest part? I'm not particularly good at scales, but I was able to play it above-tempo after about a day. And all the dramatic sweep involves is a lot of pedal and a crescendo, does it not?

No votes for the scherzo? I'll take:

scherzo > polonaise > ballade

Yes, they are all very challenging pieces. The ballade is the only one of the three that I have gotten somewhere near a performance level.

The responses in this thread just seem to prove - once again - that, with pieces of a similar level of difficulty, it is impossible to get a consensus. As others have pointed out, at this level each presents different difficulties of a different kind and each pianist may be more comfortable with some technical and musical challenges than others.

Moreover, any one with the technical reserves to tackle one of these should be able to tackle any of the others. The question, therefore, doesn't seem to have much relevance.

Regards,

I no have idea which is harder, but can someone give a definitive comment on the the relative difficulty of the:
2nd Ballade
2nd Scherzo
Polonaise Fantasy

Please...no guesses or "for my technique" or "if you want to know how hard is to play really well" or "you're not just considering the technical difficulties only I hope" or "I should be able to decide".

DUH?!?!? I just want the answer...the right one.

No, just me.

I've heard but never even tried attempting these pieces. I like Scherzo 4 better than Polonaise 53. But I don't think I'm technically ready to take on this piece. Maybe in the next 4 years.

I'm good at chords and octaves so the polonaise is the easiest of the three for me.

We need a sticky of something to this effect at the top of the forum!