Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#1398071 - 03/17/10 07:21 PM Cracked soundboard in a Yamaha G2
pppat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 1195
Loc: Jakobstad, Finland
Hi all,

I just got the piano from my parent's house delivered to my home. They swapped it for a short Yamaha upright, and I couldn't be happier...

except for one thing. It has a nasty crack in the soundboard, close to the left end (bass end). It has been there for 15 years or so, and in my opinion it doesn't really affect the overall sound (if I compare this piano to the G2:s at my place of work).

But the low bass buzzes (the last octave or so), the lower frequencies are causing troubles. The crack is about 1 ft 4 inches long, perpendicular to the ribs (spanning three of them).

The outer part of the soundboard (the smaller part) is raising higher by 1/8 of an inch or so, and thus it is slightly separated from the ribs just at the crack.

Here is a picture of it:




Any suggestions on what could (or should) be done are most welcome.
_________________________
Patrick Wingren, RPT

Senior Lecturer (jazz piano, composition, music theory, conducting) @ Novia University of Applied Sciences, Jakobstad, Finland
- - - -
Dedicated to learning the craft of tuning. Getting better.

Top
(ad PTG 568) Grand Action Regulation in 37 Steps
Grand Action Regulation in 37 Steps
#1398091 - 03/17/10 07:51 PM Re: Cracked soundboard in a Yamaha G2 [Re: pppat]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21431
Loc: Oakland
First of all, do not assume that is what is causing the buzzing in the bass.

However, if it is, you can glue it back together, using a screw in the rib to hold it down. If necessary, you can wedge open the crack from below and glue a shim or two in between the ribs.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#1398098 - 03/17/10 08:04 PM Re: Cracked soundboard in a Yamaha G2 [Re: BDB]
pppat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 1195
Loc: Jakobstad, Finland
Thanks, BDB!

I haven't found the source of the buzz yet, so you might have a good point there. I've tried to push the ribs upward, but because the smaller part is raised that would of course not help much. I need to investigate it once more.

I have, however, removed the action and tightened screws, checked dampers etc. If it's not the crack that causes the buzzing, what would you first think of?

I could try to make a sound sample of me hitting the bass keys, if that would make the buzzing characteristics clearer!
_________________________
Patrick Wingren, RPT

Senior Lecturer (jazz piano, composition, music theory, conducting) @ Novia University of Applied Sciences, Jakobstad, Finland
- - - -
Dedicated to learning the craft of tuning. Getting better.

Top
#1398120 - 03/17/10 08:34 PM Re: Cracked soundboard in a Yamaha G2 [Re: pppat]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21431
Loc: Oakland
Tracking down buzzes is difficult. It could be the strings, the hammers, something on the soundboard, something in the room, etc.

If I could not find a mechanical problem, i.e., something else buzzing, I would start by tuning, regulating and voicing. If that changes it, chances are it that is the problem. Then I would try pressure on the area of the crack to see if that changes it.

My method of searching for problems like this is to look for the problems with the simplest solutions first, followed by those that can be alleviated by work that ought to be done anyway, and only then considering those that are difficult and expensive to repair.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#1398792 - 03/18/10 05:23 PM Re: Cracked soundboard in a Yamaha G2 [Re: BDB]
pppat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 1195
Loc: Jakobstad, Finland
Thanks for your help, BDB,

the room is out, because it was there at my parents' house, too, before the move here.

I was so into the soundboard crack as being the root of the problem, that I didn't really listen carefully enough myself. When I tried them today, there is a clear metallic buzz. Might it be the wounded strings themself?

It's only there from mf and louder.

Here is a recording of that dreadful sound:

bass buzz | Yamaha G2

Not that the G2 has any deep bass in itself, but I could certainly do without the extra effect smile

_________________________
Patrick Wingren, RPT

Senior Lecturer (jazz piano, composition, music theory, conducting) @ Novia University of Applied Sciences, Jakobstad, Finland
- - - -
Dedicated to learning the craft of tuning. Getting better.

Top
#1398885 - 03/18/10 07:47 PM Re: Cracked soundboard in a Yamaha G2 [Re: pppat]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21431
Loc: Oakland
It is very possible that what you are hearing is just in the bass strings, brought out by the hammers having hardened. Try sanding the hammers a bit. If that helps, it is probably voicing.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#1398888 - 03/18/10 07:53 PM Re: Cracked soundboard in a Yamaha G2 [Re: BDB]
pppat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 1195
Loc: Jakobstad, Finland
Ok, I will try just that! Thank you again, you've been of much help (just as many times before). I'm very grateful for your concern.
_________________________
Patrick Wingren, RPT

Senior Lecturer (jazz piano, composition, music theory, conducting) @ Novia University of Applied Sciences, Jakobstad, Finland
- - - -
Dedicated to learning the craft of tuning. Getting better.

Top
#1398915 - 03/18/10 08:26 PM Re: Cracked soundboard in a Yamaha G2 [Re: pppat]
Zeno Wood Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 443
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Are the strings buzzing against the damper wire?
_________________________
Zeno Wood, Piano Technician
Brooklyn College

Top
#1398921 - 03/18/10 08:36 PM Re: Cracked soundboard in a Yamaha G2 [Re: Zeno Wood]
Terry Benge Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 120
Loc: Southeastern Ky
You might try twisting each string 1/2 turn also. Or untwisting if they are already twisted. The attack of the hammer didn't seem like a soundboard buzz. More of a string issue or the hammers need voiced.
_________________________
PTG Associate
Steinway Studio
Yamaha CP300

Top
#1399509 - 03/19/10 07:43 PM Re: Cracked soundboard in a Yamaha G2 [Re: Zeno Wood]
pppat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 1195
Loc: Jakobstad, Finland
Originally Posted By: Zeno Wood
Are the strings buzzing against the damper wire?


Zeno,

thanks for the suggestion - I actually rushed to the piano in hope of finding that problem (would have been an easy fix), but no, the strings stay clear of the dampers.

I'll try to sand the hammers, and see what happens. And if that doesn't help, I'll twist the strings. Thank you all for your help!
_________________________
Patrick Wingren, RPT

Senior Lecturer (jazz piano, composition, music theory, conducting) @ Novia University of Applied Sciences, Jakobstad, Finland
- - - -
Dedicated to learning the craft of tuning. Getting better.

Top
#1399513 - 03/19/10 07:46 PM Re: Cracked soundboard in a Yamaha G2 [Re: pppat]
pppat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 1195
Loc: Jakobstad, Finland
PS what would vinegar do to the hammers? I found some red spots over the lower end hammers that I strongly suspect has something to do with a glass of red wine, 'misplaced'... wink
_________________________
Patrick Wingren, RPT

Senior Lecturer (jazz piano, composition, music theory, conducting) @ Novia University of Applied Sciences, Jakobstad, Finland
- - - -
Dedicated to learning the craft of tuning. Getting better.

Top
#1399544 - 03/19/10 08:06 PM Re: Cracked soundboard in a Yamaha G2 [Re: pppat]
Zeno Wood Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 443
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Oh well. I later listened to the clip on a computer with real speakers and realized that what I heard was my laptop rattling.

Sounds like twisting the bass strings might be the way to go. I think someone else already suggested that.
_________________________
Zeno Wood, Piano Technician
Brooklyn College

Top
#1399575 - 03/19/10 09:06 PM Re: Cracked soundboard in a Yamaha G2 [Re: Zeno Wood]
Terry Benge Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 120
Loc: Southeastern Ky
If those red spots are of a dried liquid, you can feel to see if they are crusty or firm. That could be the source. I have experienced that before as well as broken needles from prior voicing.
_________________________
PTG Associate
Steinway Studio
Yamaha CP300

Top
#1402229 - 03/23/10 06:08 PM Re: Cracked soundboard in a Yamaha G2 [Re: Terry Benge]
pppat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 1195
Loc: Jakobstad, Finland
Thank you all,

I twisted the single chord wound strings, and that seems to make a huge difference. While I'm at it, I'll continue through the bi-chords too!
_________________________
Patrick Wingren, RPT

Senior Lecturer (jazz piano, composition, music theory, conducting) @ Novia University of Applied Sciences, Jakobstad, Finland
- - - -
Dedicated to learning the craft of tuning. Getting better.

Top
#1403208 - 03/25/10 01:25 AM Re: Cracked soundboard in a Yamaha G2 [Re: pppat]
hardlrrp Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 32
i dont know much about soundboards but will a crack that size have any real affect the sound or playability of the instrument??

Top
#1403209 - 03/25/10 01:26 AM Re: Cracked soundboard in a Yamaha G2 [Re: hardlrrp]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21431
Loc: Oakland
Probably not.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

Top
#1403597 - 03/25/10 03:10 PM Re: Cracked soundboard in a Yamaha G2 [Re: BDB]
pppat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 1195
Loc: Jakobstad, Finland
BDB, I agree, i can't hear any difference compared to a bunch of other G2:s that I tune.

There are quite a lot of cracked soundboards in grands here where I live, due to the extremely cold and dry winters.

This winter was the worst one that I can remember - humidity below 20% in many buildings. A tuner friend of mine who tunes three grands at a congregation center tried for years to get a dampp-chaser installed on the 3rd, older grand (the other two had DC:s already). They didn't think it was worth the investment, and this winter the soundboard cracked in three different places within a week.
_________________________
Patrick Wingren, RPT

Senior Lecturer (jazz piano, composition, music theory, conducting) @ Novia University of Applied Sciences, Jakobstad, Finland
- - - -
Dedicated to learning the craft of tuning. Getting better.

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
123 registered (accordeur, aesop, A Guy, ajames, 41 invisible), 1135 Guests and 17 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75984 Members
42 Forums
157152 Topics
2308034 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
No one home?
by ScottM
08/29/14 08:05 PM
Prokofiev's 5 piano concertos, live: Marinskij/Gergiev etc
by fnork
08/29/14 07:36 PM
Has anyone here studied with S. Babayan
by Serge Marinkovic
08/29/14 07:05 PM
Roland RD 800 Dust Cover
by BarryDMD
08/29/14 06:14 PM
OT - Technical help for recording Silent feature to laptop
by casinitaly
08/29/14 05:13 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission