I guess mission accomplished then...

It really does depend on your goals and also your personality. As an adult, there's nothing more humbling in my opinion than sitting at a lesson and exposing your inadequacies. I do it each and every week..........

If you are fortunate to find a match in a teacher s/he will be invaluable in your progress and enjoyment of piano and music overall. I've spent a few lessons not even touching the piano and walked away even more inspired after an hour of history, theory, chatting about other instruments, and/or just general music conversation. It's a part of my week that I look forward to and let's face it, there's nothing like an upcoming lesson to keep you motivated to practice productively.

I think it's like anything, you can do it at some level, but the satisfaction in 'doing it right' is worth all the work AND enables you to enjoy your hobby even more.... AND learning correct technique makes it easier to learn new pieces.

If you do decide to look for a teacher, I think it's important to find one that suits your learning style and personality.

What would you do if you wanted to learn piano but couldn't afford lessons, or you didn't have time to travel longer distances for an appropriate teacher. God knows there are a lot of teachers out there advertising but they are not necessarily the one best suited for you. Summarily, lessons can be expensive, when you add it all up, hence, if you can't afford them, should you just not pursue a passion for learning to play the piano?

That would be a terrible idea. Don't let the suggestions of the norm stop you from pursuing your passion. If you work hard and careful enough, learning the piano by yourself is very much possible. Read books on technique and practice methodology, compare how professionals move their hands, following suggested fingerings, listening, studying the score.

All these activities can be done without the supervision of a teacher. If the will to learn and progress is there even without a teacher to motivate you, then save some money and try it alone first. Adults are not children, children need to be pushed and directed, most adults don't.

Monica, I have never said that it is "impossible", so please do not link my quote, with which you begin your post, to that statement, as folks may think I said that it is "impossible". Thank you.

Really? That's so sad.

Hi Rocket, I tried to go back and edit my post to satisfy you, but I had missed the editing window. I like to think that a careful reader will realize that I was not implying that YOU had said it was "impossible" (after all, I carefully quoted you as saying that it was "rare"). In any event, your post and this reply should make it plain as day that you don't believe it's impossible for people to self-teach, which I agree whole-heartedly with.

Thanks Monica. btw...I saw your playing on your site, and you play very nicely. Been meaning to tell you.

Here is classical snobbism in a nutshell.

Actually, it the student starts with a teacher after working on his own there are going to be mistakes such as you mention and unfortunately, habits are hard to correct once they become rooted in your brains circuitry because another instruction and correction must be given repetitively in order to make the correction and improvement replace the error.

It's much more realistic to have instruction from the beginning with a teacher to avoid errors in the first place.

Money spent for instruction is money well invested. Money spent on remedial work has added a difficulty factor to piano lessons.

Not only self taught students but transfer students who have studied with an inexperienced teacher produce "happy as clams" pianists who don't have a clue as to how their playing would have been improved had they had a really good, educated approach to all that we put into place as personal experience in building good musicianship skills. Musicianship is the goal is it not?

It's a path that you really should choose carefully. Of the many advocates of self teaching, and I do understand their viewpoints why they prefer their own self teaching, it becomes a reality check about what they have really accomplished, or not accomplished when put to the "test" of comments that would be made about their playing by a experienced teacher with high standards of musicianship.

Avoiding injuries and pain alone is worth the investment as well as being accurate in one's execution of a piece of music. You can not teach yourself what you do not know because it's those parts of the teaching equation that will never be known through self teaching. Music is a multi-dimensional process involving accuracy and control and technique in every motion. It involves just about the highest of multi-plexing of brain and body as any thinking activity can demand.

If a beginning pianist wants to be the best they can be, they need a mentor. It saves time and effort in every way and helps one reach their destination with the least bruises and bumps.

We at some level become capable of self teaching by using the skills, habits and knowledge we have accumulated to date - but that is not the same as self teaching from scratch every step of the way without any input from a teacher.

Having a good teacher is like practicing preventive medicine. One has to be careful in choosing one's mentor as all the people teaching piano are not completely up to par in their own sets of skills and jumping into teaching because you can play well at the piano does not a teacher make. How well the teacher's other students play is an important part of a teachers reputation. How long they stay with this teacher is another credit to a teachers reputation.

"Two heads are better than one" is an old adage.

Thank you! That is very kind of you.

I do find it curious that these threads elicit such strong feelings because, as far as I can tell, we pretty much all agree with each other. Thus far, nearly everybody has said that a (good and compatible) teacher will make you a better player. That's undoubtedly true. And maybe that's all the O.P. needs to hear.

I guess I would've been happier had the debate been phrased in terms of "what are the advantages of having a teacher?" (of which there are many!), rather than in terms of "is a teacher necessary?" (which paints a stark dichotomy I don't buy into).

Hi Ed. I try to stay away from commenting your posts, but for the benefits of the OP, I just like to say this. We may be familiar with your method and site but fe2008 and other new beginners may be not. Please present your methods if you think he/she or other students may benefit from it. Or state your opinion if you’d like to chime in on the Teacher vs. No Teacher debate. It’d be more helpful to fe2008 and other beginner students trying to weigh the pros and cons of piano study. What you’re doing isn’t helping the question/OP much.

Actually, it sounds more like an accurate depiction of an all too real attitude. There's a certain arrogance that makes some people think they could not possibly need a teacher, while they cannot play with even a trace of technique or musicality. There's no shame in playing pop songs or Christmas Carols and enjoying it. It's the attitude that makes such people unaware of how much better they could be doing (whether they should ever play a single note of classical music in their life or not) that is being attacked here (unless I'm mcuh mistaken) not the validity of other forms. Whatever you do, you ought to do it well. Christmas Carols and pop tunes ought to be done well too. They're just a hell of a lot easier to scrape through badly- without awareness of limitation.

So you're saying I'm off topic? Nguyen, the moderators called. They want their job back.

Some people don't want to get 'better.' Some people just want to sit down and play simply. The whole 'do it well' thing doesn't jibe with me either.

I know many here place a lot of value on playing classical repertoire well. Yet, there are other 'values' to music making that I never see addressed on PW.

+1
Monica Agree. But we do need threads such as this though. Keep us motivated. Get our adrenaline up. Put all this on the keyboard and whoaaa… I’m just imagining

Well, at least we can share a good laugh. As you please. No further comments.

Well, I take your point. Enjoyment is vital. But if someone doesn't want to learn to better their playing, I wouldn't want to teach them. There are differing levels and I would far sooner encourage someone than put them off. However, as a musician, I would gain nothing from encouraging someone falsely while seeing them make no progress (other than money). I'm not a strict teacher by any means, but I wouldn't whore myself out simply as someone to hold a student's hand. Anyone could do that. In the long run achieving progress offers far more satisfaction than someone patting you on the back while you go nowhere. I couldn't give a damn whether the student plays Jingle Bells or Rachmaninoff. However, if they're not interested in progressing both musically and technically, I'd have to ask myself whether I need the money that badly as to have to watch someone banging away with one finger- before having to pretend to be impressed by their failure to achieve anything. If all a person wants is to play some easy notes in the right order (with no thought of phrase or shaping) why even pay for my services? There are plenty of people who have never even played the piano remotely seriously who could do the same job of listening and saying "well done".

What???

I have never met anyone who is interested enough in music to actually learn the rudiments of playing an instrument (and likely purchase it) who then says, "I want to stay where I am...got any books or dvd's that will help me to not improve?"

This is so weird.

never mind

Well said from a man who wrote about 5000 words on muscle tension in the hands.

As I think it's weird that students spend hundreds if not thousands of hours learning how to play other people's music.

The question is about having a teacher & learning to play the piano - not whether it is classical music, or what kind of music, or whose music.

You're a teacher, aren't you? So you teach?

Definitely. Also today's world is very different from one that most teachers grew up in. There's a great deal more resources available to an adult to use as they teach themselves like the Internet, books, videos.

If your hobby was cooking, you could simply cook, cook, and cook. Maybe what you cook taste good, maybe it taste horrid. Maybe no one eats your cooking, so you don't care. You could go to a culinary school or figure it out on your own. Bottom line is you are passionate with it.

A teacher is the most traditional, formal, and effective way to improve your skills, but it's not the only way.

There is no universal answer to this, but it probably is something that the student, self-taught or with an instructor, should ask themselves. Only the student can really determine if their technique really needs some additional help and motives.

With the proper amount of research, these 'mistakes' can be apprehended and corrected if the student is inclined to do so. Sometimes teachers have been known to pass around techniques which others see as a mistake. I am not sure if there is truly a 'right' way to play, that is if the tempo and all other descriptions of the composition are played correctly. But it does not hurt to at least get some feedback from someone with musical experience.

As a self-taught student myself, I feel I am doing okay on my own. But there are some moments where I wish I had a teacher to help with some tightening up on a song. But I have had some bad experiences with teachers, due to too much formality and the freedom in your work too constrained. Besides, teachers with this sort of part-time involvement are difficult to put on the clock.

That reminds me of this fragment from a book by Stanisław Lem, a great Polish writer of SF-cum-philosophical novels. A visitor from the Earth arrives to another planetary system and checks into the hotel:

Receptionist: Where are you from, sir?
Guest: From the Earth.
R: Oh, how nice! So you're a mammal, aren't you?
G: Well, ehr... yes, I am.
R: And I know mammals suck. So, enjoy your sucking!

Some of us get a great deal of joy out of BOTH learning to play other people's music as well as creating and playing our own music.

My teachers past and present have been instrumental in guiding, advising and mentoring me in order to get to the place where I can do both - and enjoy both.

It doesn't have to be so black and white!

Why a teacher?

To teach you all the bad habits that you would never fall into naturally or think of by yourself, of course

JF

Unfortunately there is truth to this. Self-taught you might have a scattering of vague bad habits. Badly taught, you may have deeply ingrained bad habits, as well as extinguishing of good natural impulses - these exist too.

Name one hobby or profession that doesn't involve studying over other people's work as part of learning about it?