Hi, Everyone. I am a Newbie here. We have been looking for a baby grand/ grand piano for my daughter. Her teacher is requiring her to move on from our upright. We have found lots that we love, but the trouble is that our budget right now is really requiring us to stay under 5k, and we are determined not to finance. Not surprisingly, we haven't really found much in our price range. :-)
I received a call today from our piano tuner. He tunes pianos at a local church. They are selling a 1963 Baldwin R159*** piano for $3500. It has a few scratches, but it played great and sounded fabulous. Our tuner said it was good to go and it was in wonderful shape for its age. Would I be better off getting a quality made older piano or a trying to find something newer that was asian made? I would like it to hold up for about 5 more years until my daughter graduates high school.

Thanks for your help!

Oh my, you have my +1 on that!
I absolutely love Baldwin pianos.

I have a 1922 H, which came before your model R, and its a fantastic piano. Big sound in a small package. Extremely durable. It is in absolute fantastic condition for being so old, nothing broke, or damaged except for a soundboard crack.

At school we have mid 60s model M, which is a 5'2 baby grand. It is certainly a fine piano, and is definitly the best baby grand piano I have ever encountered.


Baldwin pianos are built to the top degree, and were the choice of so many concert halls around the world for decades.

Read this article to give you an idea.

http://www.bluebookofpianos.com/agesb.htm#BALDWIN

It sounds like you have reasonable expectations and are happy. It's hard to get a fix on Baldwin prices these days, but unless you are willing to add to the budget, it is hard to get a suitable grand for that price. If you are willing to add money, you'll probably do better on both the front side and the back side of your purchase.

Perhaps you could ask the tech to show you the action, etc. and really go over the condition with you. It is old, but you can probably get 5 good years if it checks out.

In truth, I think you'd be better off with a nice new/late model upright, but the allure of the grand is hard to ignore.

Good luck!

my first question is probably why the teacher "requires" your daughter to switch to a grand. you can find lots of discussions in this forum about whether a crappy grand beats a good upright.

how long has your daughter been playing? i know this doesn't help you but i'm just curious, since i teach piano too. you can play on a decent upright to pretty high level and not "need" a grand. i know i'm opening a big can of worms here so, sorry if i'm causing you headaches rather than helping.

baldwins is a trusted brand and if your tech likes it, and your daughter played and likes it, unless there's any huge problem (like a huge crack on the soundboard which isn't likely...) maybe you should go for it...

PreparedPipa is right.

A nice upright will get your daughter very far, and a grand will just polish the surface and add a little magic. I have played uprights and digitals my whole life until a bit over a month ago. They get you to a high level, say college level. And then maybe upgrading or at least having some access to a grand will be beneficial.

That is true. The 'R' is a performance grade piano supposedly on par with the other greats - Mason and Hamlin and Sohmer and Steinway - but they are now being sold for these low prices. At any rate, 3500 is the low end for the model R, and it's newer than many of the 5'8" Baldwins you see on the used market. So, if it checks out it is a fine deal.

It's hard to find a better buy in that price range.

I also find that the statement that her teacher says she needs to upgrade to a grand is rude. Many people can not afford a grand or nice upright. Saying that they "need to get one" in my old teachers mind would be taken as an insult.


I am sure many of the worlds best piano players have had an upright or electronic piano for a long time, or even still do.

It sounds like you already have a good working relationship with a tech you trust, Gwen. Why not pay him for an hour or hour-and-a-half of his time and, as suggested, go over the piano in detail. It is, after all 47 years old and has lived in a church for part of that time. Pianos in that situation often do not get the maintenance they might, and are constantly challenged by variations in temperature and humidity (and, sometimes, by pretty hard use). Anyway, it's old enough to have experienced significant wear over the years, and it would be a good thing to find out about. You might like to know, particularly, what kind of work you might anticipate (and budget for).

Since you've gotten a better price than you anticipated, you might put some of that money toward some degree of refurbishment. I'm not thinking of rebuilding or refinishing it, but of cleaning, regulation, voicing, replacing worn felts and action parts, etc. Something within your means that will help it play and sound its best.

I love Baldwins, personally. It was heartbreaking to have such a fine company run into the ground after a soap company raided and ruined it... but, too late now; might as well get over it. I wish you the best of luck with this one, if you get it.

Should it not work out, I think Sam has a point about acquiring a new upright. You can find some quite acceptable ones in your price point that will well serve a student pianist, to an advanced level. Something to keep in mind. And BTW, the piano teacher is not in a position to 'require' a student's parents to purchase a grand piano for them to practice on. Maybe she was just trying to say that your daughter has good potential as a musician and that a better practice instrument would help.

My daughter has been taking for 7 years, but she is still just in 8th grade. When we signed with this teacher, we knew she required this for her high school students. She only takes serious students, however, my daughter pounds away for hours on our upright, so I really don't understand how the piano she plays on determines how "serious" of a student she is. That being said, this old Baldwin will be a great deal better than what she is currently playing on, so.... I probably shouldn't expect to do any better.

Thanks for all the input, everyone. I have read some encouraging things. I am trying to be realistic about what to expect out of this piano, and it has definitely been the best option we have come across so far.

I will absolutely take the advice and have it looked at tomorrow by our tech. I would certainly be willing to put some money towards getting it into its best possible working condition. If it doesn't check out, perhaps a newer, better upright will be in order.... and a new piano teacher to go along with it.... :-)

I'm assuming it is an R.. an artist grand. If so, they are wonderfully made. An R that is 45 years old may have been really given a workout.. and is definitely worthy of a tech visit.

It is so much fun to play on a grand and Baldwins are fantastic. One of the advantages of buying used wisely is that you do not lose too much of your purchase price if you move on later. It would be pretty good trading stock at a dealer. They actually rebuild Rs.

I'd offer a bit less... maybe subtracting the cost of moving and tech info from what you can pay. I used to own a M (an M?). Baldwins really are excellent.

it sounds like your daughter is very dedicated.

I agree that the older Baldwin grands are great instruments, if they've been maintained properly; however, if they've been abused or neglected, they will require some work to get back up to par. To be sure what would be involved in getting this particular Baldwin up to speed, I would have a qualified piano technician (familiar with Baldwins) take a look at it and give you his honest opinion.

I think the tuner may have a conflict of interest. He's recommending a piano that is owned by another customer. What is he/she getting out of the deal?

I would call the piano teacher's bluff. Simply tell them that you don't have money for another piano. I'm suggesting that the teacher will not drop your daughter as a student.

We have called a 3rd party tuner/tech to give the piano a look. They are getting rid of the piano because they are starting renovations on that part of the building on April 1st. We may be able to get a very good price if the piano checks out.
Fingers crossed....

Baldwin's are wonderful pianos and if it is technically sound and has a nice tone and touch that is a great deal and sounds like you better jump on it. Having your teacher look at it if she would, would certainly help as well. Good luck.

I have a 1917 Baldwin L and it's wonderful. Baldwins are beautiful and wonderful.

Just my two cents.

C

I wish you luck with it, Gwen.

It would be an improvement on the usual April Fool's joke.

We just got a Baldwin G (about 5' 5") built in 1916.

I don't play but my son does. He enjoys blues and rock and roll plus some classical. He plays strictly for his enjoyment. Our 'new' 1917 piano is performing admirably. It sounds beautiful and looks pretty nice too. It appears to have been restrung once, perhaps 50 years ago. It has four 'dead' bass strings at the very bottom end of the scale. It is definitely strings and not a hammer or action problem. We are deciding whether to have a complete restringing done or just the bass or just the problem strings. There are technical and financial considerations for each alternative. Thereafter, we will have some voicing work done and have the hammers (they appear original from 1917) filed and possibly softened as the piano is a bit too bright for "mellower" music but fine for blues, boogies, etc.

We are in this piano for a pittance and are enjoying the heck out of it. I had budgeted money into the tens for a nice piano and that budget is still basically intact and my son has a very nice piano. I took this piano within a couple of hours after first seeing it. I ran to school to pick up my son so he could come and play it. I didn't have time to get a tech or even the piano teacher to look at it. I was afraid the piano would get away from us. I have since had a tech come to our house and evaluate the piano and he confirms it is an excellent piano. And the teacher absolutely loves he piano, its sound and its touch.

My personal logic was why would I wait until my son were ready to go away to college to do something nice like this for him? He is only 12 now. We never have to remind him to practice; he plays purely for enjoyment and the satisfaction and fun of getting better.

Life is full of risks, starting with getting out of bed every morning, and this was financially a relatively tiny risk.

If I were giving out free advice, I would suggest that:

1.) $3500 is about 10% of the cost of a decent (but not exotic) new car. In that way of looking at it, $3500 is not a whole lot of money.

2.) Make sure you are not getting into a money sump situation (i.e., such as the piano needing a lot of work, year-in and year-out, that is above your tastes and budget. That is why you should have a good and independent piano tech take a look.

3.) If the piano sounds and feels good today, there is no requirement to do any work you ultimately want done right away. While the piano tech may advise you to do anything that might ultimately be needed during the first 60-90 days you might own the piano, when work is done is your choice. Think carefully and work out a plan and schedule for spreading the work over time to accommodate your needs and budget

4.) Consider the value to you and your daughter of having the fun and enjoyment of a nice instrument sooner rather than later. There is something a little magical about a niece sounding grand. And, remember that the kids grow up and leave the nest all too soon. Relish every moment.

Good Luck on your decision and your piano if you go that way!

BAH... On a note of the bass strings.

A wise choice I think would be to replace just the bass strings. If the treble wire is rusted, or corroded, then it is best to replace those.

But putting new wire on, if the old ones were ok, wont improve the sound really. Its the bass strings that get dull and lifeless with time.

My story and clark bass strings are very dirty, and are thuddy sounding, but the treble strings are sounding fine. And those strings are 105 years old!

Brandon, thank you for the thoughts.

All bass strings above the four 'dead' strings sound fine and so do the rest of the upper sounding strings. However, there is some corrosion between the bridge and the hitch pins on the higher sounding strings. As you would expect, there is no effect from this corrosion on the sound of these string. Yet, somewhere in the back of my mind I can see stress risers emanating from any corrosion pits through some strings causing these highly tensioned strings to break. Question is might this happen in 2 years or 10 or 50 years?

Replacing all bass strings seems attractive. Replacing just the four that are 'dead' (your word 'thuddy' better describes the sound of the four), seems even more attractive for several reasons. However, a problem might arise if there were any need to replace the higher sounding strings. many of which lay under the bass scale (am I using the word 'scale' properly to describe the whole collection of bass strings?). Right now, the tuning pins on the piano seem to be somewhere between #2 and #3 in size so I would assume they are #3 as I have never heard of #2 1/2. This leads me to believe they are #3 and the piano may have been restrung once.

By my untrained eye, it seems that the bass strings would need to be removed in order to properly access the upper sounding strings that physically lie underneath the bass strings. This would involve destroying the new bass strings and re-pinning the bass scale, now for a second or third time in the life of this piano. This, in turn could lead to the need to replace the pin block. Keep in mind that our model "G" is nearing its 100 year anniversary. If there is a need to replace the pin block, might as well take out and re-guild the plate.

Admittedly, the chance of entering the downward spiral described above is not huge, but it could happen and I don't want it to happen as it would turn an essentially free piano into a money sump.

See the possible problems and risks? How to mitigate the risk and still keep enjoying our lovely sounding piano? Your thoughts? Anyone's thoughts?

Gwen8888, please tell us what you have decided and how events have gone.