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I am getting freaked out....
Korg and roland both have so many types keyboard actions in their various DPs.....like RH3,NHA in korg and PHA II PHA alpha II in roland....I don't know if there are many more too!!!
What is the difference between these, and which one feels exactly like an acoustic grand piano?
I know only about YAMAHA - they have GHS,GHE.....and that GHE feels like an acoustic grand....GHS is the lighter one.....
Can anyone please tell me exactly which action is best in korg and in roland? For yamaha its GHE.....i know.....
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What is the difference between these, and which one feels exactly like an acoustic grand piano?
None of them. The best action available today is in Yamaha's AvantGrand digital piano. Many of those people comparing Korg, Roland, Yamaha, Kawai and Casio seem to think that the op of the line Kawai action (today's RM3 action) is the best followed by the Roland PHA-III. Korg generally doesn't make it that far in the comparisons. I own a Korg SP-200 which I got a lot of use out of but will probably replace with Kawai or Roland.
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AvantGrand is not in my budget.....
A DP priced somewhere around cp33 is what I need....My question is that - is there a DP approximately same in price as cp33 in roland or korg with an equivalent good keyboard action?
That's what getting me confused.....because roland FP4 has PHA ALPHA II and FP7 has PHA II....and I heard that PHA II is better than PHA alpha II.....
But fp7 is much more costly than cp33.....so I would like to know whether I should buy fp4 or opt for cp33? Is cp33's GHE better than or equally good as PHA alpha II?
And one more question - is GHE as good as korg's RH3 action?
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just came to know about korg's "Weighted Hammer Action II" - does anyone know how is it different form RH3? and which one feels closer to an acoustic grand?
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Roland's alpha are semi-weighted. They are much less realistic than the non-alpha keys.
Otherwise, since acoustic grands themselves feel so very different from one another, your question comes down to personal preference. Even if Roland is slightly above Korg, you may prefer Korg simply because they are less bouncy.
Dr. Appleman, former NASA engineer, Empire of Earth and B.S. of Ninjutsu at MIT.
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While I've never tried a Korg piano, I compared a Kawai CA93 to a Roland HP307 last weekend in terms of realistic grand piano action and it was unquestionably the Roland keyboard action that won out. I have played many acoustic grands in my time, and was also able to scrutinise both against acoustic grands in the same shop. As a background, I play classical piano (some might say to a high standard) and have just sold my acoustic upright to buy a digital piano with a grand piano action. Hence I went into some detail in my testing. I'll post my observations here in case other find them useful. I do not mean to be disrespectful in my comments and I have no affiliation to any manufacturer. - On the Roland one is able to repeat a note before the key is fully raised. This was not possible on the CA93 I tried. Okay possibly when about 90% raised compared to the Roland at around 50% (the same as the acoustic grands I tried).
- One can repeat a note before the previous note is fully damped on the Roland, again I found this was not possible on the CA93.
Both of the above are possible on grand pianos, in fact they are the major differences between the actions between grand pianos and uprights). Hence this was very important to me. - One cannot seem to silently press a key on the Kawai, it always produces a very quiet sound. I tried on several different weight settings but it always made a sound. Holding down keys silently to produce sympathetic resonance is useful when playing an acoustic piano, and also on digitals where this resonance is modelled (as on both of these pianos). I was seriously unimpressed by this!
- The keys on the Kawai seemed to "bounce" when they return to their raised position after releasing the note (though at least they don't bounce at the bottom of the keybed like the Clavinovas I've tried recently).
- When I pressed the key down gently to the escapement point and then tried to play a loud note starting at this depth I was able to do so on all acoustic grand pianos I tried and the Roland. I was not able to do this on the Kawai - all I got was the unavoidable quiet note it always produces when you try to press a key silently (see above).
- The Kawai had a marginally greater key depth. I forgot to compare this against an acoustic. I noted the difference by measuring with a piece of paper (the difference was not evident when playing)
- I personally preferred the Ivory touch on the Roland to the Kawai's version but both were okay.
- The Kawai's action is made out of wood whereas the Roland is "composite wood effect" or something. Wooden keys seemed important to me right up until I noticed all the other differences.
I'm not saying the Kawai's action is rubbish, and some might like it better for whatever reason, but in terms of similarity to an acoustic grand piano I cannot understand how anyone could think it was superior to the Roland's action. In fact I drove out to test the Kawai purely on the strength of comments on this forum where people said it had the best action. I'm scratching my head to find any aspect where the Kawai is better other than it makes a marginally quieter "thunk" sound when you press the keys down. I limit my comments to the keyboard action. I will contain myself on the differences in sound quality other than to wholeheartedly again recommend the Roland here.
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I realise you are talking about the Kawai CA93, of which I have no experience, but I can tell you that the Kawai MP-5 is certainly capable of playing 'silent' notes.
I can easily hold down keys without any sound being produced, and strike other keys, at normal volume, and hear the 'sympathetic resonance' effect.
Repetition is also easily achieved, before the key is completely raised.
Happy to provide video evidence, if required.
Last edited by R0B; 03/23/10 10:03 AM.
Rob
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pb71, thank you for posting your detailed analysis.
I have played the PHA III action on several occasions (both in a V-Piano and an HP-307), and have always been very impressed - it really is a joy to play.
Cheers, James x
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Hastily assembled demo of Kawai MP-5 sympathetic resonance and key repetition. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUBpPylpWrI
Rob
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I am getting freaked out....
Korg and roland both have so many types keyboard actions in their various DPs.....like RH3,NHA in korg and PHA II PHA alpha II in roland....I don't know if there are many more too!!!
What is the difference between these, and which one feels exactly like an acoustic grand piano? You first have to say exactly which acoustic grand? All acoustic pianos are different and vary over a wide range. So I'm sure if you pick any digital piano then some place there is an acoustic grand that is a close match. I think the best actions are any Kawai (they don't make a bad one) any Yamaha GH or better and any "Non-Alpha" Roland. Of those I think the closest to the grand I get touse now and then is the "Roland PHA-II with ivory and escapement" as found on the RD700GX. The PHA-III is about the same and I think it can be found on the v-pian and hp307. But I've only seen a v-piano. But I do like both the GH and Kawai actions also.
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Oh Thank you everyone for so many quick responses....with special thanks to pb71 for a detailed explanation, to applemann for explaining the difference between alpha and non-alpha keys...
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I think the best actions are any Kawai (they don't make a bad one) any Yamaha GH or better and any "Non-Alpha" Roland. Of those I think the closest to the grand I get touse now and then is the "Roland PHA-II with ivory and escapement" as found on the RD700GX. The PHA-III is about the same and I think it can be found on the v-pian and hp307. But I've only seen a v-piano. Thank you ChrisA
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R0B, the YouTube clip does not want to play here, claiming 'This video is private'.
Cheers, James x
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The easiest way - just play them! When I moved up from the Yamaha clp-240 (GH3 action) to the 370 (real wood action) I could play Bach inventions and various Divertimentos and Sonatinas that I couldn't play properly on the old keyboard. That's an easy test.
I never did play Korg or Kawai, but the Yamaha and Roland were both good.
Pianist and Computer Nerd Kawai GE-30 Yamaha Clavinova CLP-370
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shw123, may I ask if you can perhaps go into a little more detail about the differences between the GH3 and NW actions? I was under the impression that they were mechanical identical - is this not the case?
Cheers, James x
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Cheers R0B!
I think this clip demonstrates the string resonance quite nicely, and it's clear that you're obviously able to play the same key repeatedly without difficulty.
Obviously, the MP5 and CA93 use rather different keyboard actions, however I expect the key repetition speed to be largely the same...indeed, the new RM3 action in the latest CA models offers improved key repetition speed over the previous AWA Grand PRO II action.
Cheers, James x
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...while apparently not letting players do what R0B demonstrated on his video, namely depress keys without producing sound as on a real grand piano...
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By the way, the string resonance in that video was set at the default 5, out of 10.
Rob
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[*]The keys on the Kawai seemed to "bounce" when they return to their raised position after releasing the note (though at least they don't bounce at the bottom of the keybed like the Clavinovas I've tried recently)… Finally, my comments about Yamaha GH3 & NW bouncy/springy actions are solidified. I always thought my inexperience with grand action was the reason why I felt they were a little bouncy. I'm scratching my head to find any aspect where the Kawai is better other than it makes a marginally quieter "thunk" sound when you press the keys down. Thunking or thumping noise isn’t an issue for most, or at least me, but did you hear any subtle background high pitched ringing noise? I have heard it’s the sympathetic resonance Roland intends for it to resemble an acoustic. Since you’re an experienced classical pianist pb71, what’s your impression? I know this thread is intended for keyaction only, but thought it wouldn’t hurt to add this other dimension to the discussion since the OP and other shoppers, I’m sure, will also be interested to learn.
Nguyen - Student Pianist
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