Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

Trying Something New with Search
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
130 registered (3times2, accordeur, acetonitrile, ahoffmann, 36 invisible), 1624 Guests and 11 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Topic Options
#1402930 - 03/24/10 05:42 PM Are all 9th and 11th derived from Dominant 7th?
Cashley Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/16/09
Posts: 530
I watched an instructional video online.

He plays G note with his left hand, and on his right hand D major chord. He claims that it's a G9.

Now if a G9 is derived from a G dominant 7, the F natural note will represent the dominant 7th, meaning the F# would be cancelled, thus preventing a D major chord has a F#.

So a G on the left and a D major chord on the right, is it a G9 ?

Top
(ad) Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1402966 - 03/24/10 06:23 PM Re: Are all 9th and 11th derived from Dominant 7th? [Re: Cashley]
Ben Crosland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 433
Loc: Worcester, UK
I would not describe this as a G9, no.

Rather as:

Gmaj7/9

or:

D/G

or:

G[triangle]9

Top
#1402993 - 03/24/10 06:59 PM Re: Are all 9th and 11th derived from Dominant 7th? [Re: Ben Crosland]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13825
Loc: Iowa City, IA
A G note in the LH and a D Major chord is a D/G. It isn't really a G chord at all if there's no B in it.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

Top
#1402999 - 03/24/10 07:07 PM Re: Are all 9th and 11th derived from Dominant 7th? [Re: Kreisler]
Ben Crosland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 433
Loc: Worcester, UK
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
A G note in the LH and a D Major chord is a D/G. It isn't really a G chord at all if there's no B in it.


Yes, I agree that this is the best description of that chord, which is certainly a woefully inadequate example of a 'G9' chord.

Top
#1403001 - 03/24/10 07:15 PM Re: Are all 9th and 11th derived from Dominant 7th? [Re: Kreisler]
wavelength Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 340
Loc: Vermont, USA
I would call it a G Major 9, and not a G9. G9 should imply a dominant chord. Unfortunately this is put in to practice so inconsistently, that it's almost not worth complaining about. frown

Kreisler, about your missing B, I'll quote you from another thread: "voicing is an art" laugh Jazzers have a thing for the 3rd and 7th, but that doesn't mean everyone has to do it like that. If I want to leave out the 3rd in my voicing I will smile For that matter, I might choose to voice a GMaj9 with a single note: the root.


Edited by wavelength (03/24/10 11:50 PM)

Top
#1403011 - 03/24/10 07:26 PM Re: Are all 9th and 11th derived from Dominant 7th? [Re: Cashley]
RonO Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 115
Loc: New Zealand
No, it is not a G9.

Chords constructed of 3rds are called tertian chords. To create a 9th chord you add a note to a 7th chord that is a 3rd above the 7th, which is the 9th. The 9th degree is actually the same note as the 2nd but it is an octave higher. A 9th chord is an extended chord because it has a note that is more than an octave from the root. To create an 11th chord you would add the 11th note from the root, and to make a 13th chord, add the 13th note. That is as far as we can go because the 15th note is the same note as the root. A 13th chord is a very big chord. It contains 7 notes. It has every note in the scale in it.

It is not easy to play all those notes so we usually leave out the lower notes in extended chords, but they really need the root note in the bass.

The notes in a G9 chord are GBDFA (add CE to make a 13th) You could leave out the bottom notes and play DFA. That is a Dm chord. So a Dm chord over a G bass note is the same as a G9. And a Dm7 over a G bass is the same as a G11. Dm over G is known as a slash chord because it is written Dm/G

To complicate things a little more any note in a chord can be altered to create an altered chord. So you could have a major 7th interval instead of the minor 7th. This would give you the same as D/G. Altered chords usually have the alteration in brackets after the chord. This could be written G9(maj7)or G little triagle 9
_________________________
Now I Love Music Practice

Top
#1403312 - 03/25/10 07:29 AM Re: Are all 9th and 11th derived from Dominant 7th? [Re: RonO]
Cashley Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/16/09
Posts: 530
I know an easier way to identify the chord is a D/G. But you have to study the context of the question.

The instructor is trying explain that one can always modify a 7th chord to a 9th chord, by not having to count, but simply add a major chord on the 5th note of the original triad.

In the case of G, the 5th note is D. So instead of counting 7th, 8th and 9th, use slash chord technique and add a D major chord to the 5th note of G. And he claims is a G9. But the doubt that lurks behind my mind is if it's a G9, it implies G dominant 9, which necessitates the inclusion of a F natural.

Top
#1403333 - 03/25/10 08:31 AM Re: Are all 9th and 11th derived from Dominant 7th? [Re: Cashley]
Ben Crosland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 433
Loc: Worcester, UK
Your doubt is well-founded. The lowered 7th is always assumed in chord extensions, whereas the major 7th should *always* be specifically indicated.

Top

Moderator:  Ken Knapp 
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
Composer Statuettes
(ad) Teaching Music To Children
Teaching Music to Children
(ad) Yamaha Stage Pianos
Yamaha CP4 & CP40 Stage Pianos
(ads) PD - WNG - MH
Wessell Nickel & Gross
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Parson's Buys a Significant Interest in Grottrian
by Steve Cohen
07/28/15 12:48 PM
Attention to detail and Leschetizky-Schnabel "lineage"
by hreichgott
07/28/15 12:37 PM
Choosing a digital piano
by cacophonous
07/28/15 11:11 AM
How to choose Kawai K3 and Kawai K15-E
by acetonitrile
07/28/15 09:15 AM
Best Portable Recording Interface For a DP ???
by musicmad
07/28/15 04:21 AM
What's Hot!!
New Forum for Selling Your Products or Services
--------------------
Historic Piano Documents
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Forum Stats
80,175 Registered Members
44 Forums
165,803 Topics
2,430,557 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission