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#1401163 - 03/22/10 09:14 AM Roland HP-307
mwf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 419
Loc: Peterborough, England
Hi all,

Is this piano very good? I keep hearing bad aspects about it, such as poor mid-range and thin sounding, is this true? Does anyone own one or played on one.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated, as I have just sold my Yamaha CLP-380 and am looking to invest in the new HP-307, thinking it would be better because its newer technology, and I like many aspects, albeit on paper - such as aspects of modelling (no velocity switching) and continious pedal recognition, as I have not actually played on one yet.

Kind regards

Mark
_________________________
www.youtube.com/ukpiano

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#1401172 - 03/22/10 09:32 AM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: mwf]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
You should audition one and experience for yourself.
Meanwhile, check out this thread and update it later when you have a chance:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1363086/The

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#1401224 - 03/22/10 11:02 AM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: theJourney]
bkmz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 142
Loc: Belarus
Mark, can you tell in details, why do you dislike your CLP380?

Here is my impressions on HP307
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1400290/bkmz.html#Post1400290

And I just sold my CLP330 too. I don't know what to buy now.
_________________________
ex-Yamaha CLP 330

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#1401286 - 03/22/10 12:35 PM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: bkmz]
mwf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 419
Loc: Peterborough, England
To bkmz,

My CLP 380 was great in many respects, especially with the IAFC activated. However certain aspects bothered me. For one there is one note - F sharp up from middle C that sounded 'off' and too digital and sounded different from other notes at certain levels around the P mark, it was off-putting if I was to be honest. Also I wanted a piano that samples all 88 notes of a piano, not just 50 like the CLP-380 does! I also think the instrument is over-priced and its a shame they wont offer it in any thing but poilished finishes (which they charge a lot more for automatically).

I also like to record audio to wav/mp3, and a really annoying aspect of the CLP-380 is you cant capture the IAFC elements on your recording, unless you mic it of course, so all the beauty you hear when you play is totally lost in a recording such as spaciousness and damper resonance.

On paper the HP-307 offers more advantages to me - it uses newer sampling technology meaning there is no velocity switching (which is very noticeable on the CLP-380!), also not just half-pedal, but very slight variations in sustain/soft is possible on the HP-307. I love the Roland mellow tone and personally think it is far more suitable for all types of music, the clavinovas are to me only suitable for classical music - they are designed with that in mind. Also there is no looping of sounds with the Roland. When I record audio now from the Roland all the effects etc. should be transferred over to the recording from the piano.

To be honest I just fancy a change of sound and features from the CLP-380, I get bored easily and quickly. I will probably own the Roland for a year and change to the CLP400 series when it come out lol.

I think its best to have a current model using newer improved sound technology, the CLP-380 is now yesterdays news, the new CLP range comes out soon anyway, I bet my life on it that they also blend some modelling technology/new wood keyboard into the new range from that new fancy modelled stage piano Yamaha just released - CP1 or something.

Regards

Mark
_________________________
www.youtube.com/ukpiano

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#1401329 - 03/22/10 01:50 PM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: mwf]
surgtech Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/29/05
Posts: 98
Loc: USA
mwf, thanks for the great review on CLP 380. I'm just glad that I didn't buy anything at this time. I was considering HP 307, CLP 380, and CA 93. NONE of them were satisfying. That's why I decided to keep what I have and wait for the new CLP 4xx series.

If I have to buy something right now it would be Avant Grand N2 and N3.
_________________________
Andrew

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#1401337 - 03/22/10 02:00 PM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: mwf]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: mwf

To be honest I just fancy a change of sound and features from the CLP-380, I get bored easily and quickly. I will probably own the Roland for a year and change to the CLP400 series when it come out lol.


I seems to me that you'd be best off using computer generated sound. That way you can keep up with the new advances every few months. I'm sure that the today's softwre instruments are far better than whatever will be in the new CLP400 series.

Yes I know that some people are reporting performance issues with software based instruments but in all cases those peole were trying to "make do" with some older notebook PC they already owned. If you can afford a computer bought specifically for music production you'd have zero problems. And then after that you can remain current with the advancing state of the art with a series of relative low cost software updates.

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#1401343 - 03/22/10 02:02 PM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: mwf]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2392
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Mark,

I had a V-Piano and replaced it with a RD-700GX with Supernatural upgrade and a soon-to-arrive HP-307. These both use the same sound engine although there may be slight variations between them. I really didn't get on with the V-Piano and really like the RD with the SN upgrade. You had a FP-4 didn't you? What did you think of that? If you imagine something a little bit like the FP-4 but with absolutely no audible looping, velocity layers or stretching then that won't be far away from the HP-307.

My only criticism of the RD SN is that on some of the piano voices some of the upper-mid range notes have a transition to a harsher metallic twanging sound at too low a velocity...it is an entirely natural (to my ears) sound but as I said, it occurs at slightly lower velocities than you would expect. I don't know how the voices equate between RD SN and HP-307 but on the RD I use Grand Piano 4 that exhibits very little of this "twanging". The other thing I've done is to play around with the touch response curves and this helps a lot too. I really like the SN thing Roland have come up with, it is a great achievement.

I have also just sold my Clavinova (CVP-405...it was on ebay at the same time as yours!)...four layer dynamic sampling, which is slightly inferior to the CLP-380 (five layers). The Yamaha pianos have a lot going for them and for some music their characteristic sound is just right.

Is it difficult for you to try a Roland out somewhere local to you? I think you'll like the HP-307 a lot but have you also considered the Kawai CA-93? Or, the Yamaha CP5 and a new Kawai stage piano will be out in a few months if you wouldn't mind a stage piano (and waiting!).

Let us know how you get on,

Steve
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1401345 - 03/22/10 02:02 PM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: mwf]
NikkiPiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 172
Loc: Hertfordshire, UK
My first post here.

Has Dewster analysed the Yamaha CLP-380? I'm curious about how many samples it uses across the 88 notes. You say it only has 50 samples?

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#1401350 - 03/22/10 02:09 PM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: NikkiPiano]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2392
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Yamaha have allegedly only sampled some of the notes and then stretched them to cover every note on the keyboard. The notes they have sampled have been sampled at five velocity layers and these layers are then blended using effects/filters etc to replicate a natural tonal response to different playing velocities. It would appear from Dewster's testing that Yamaha are very skilled at blending the layers to the point where the dynamic layers are difficult or impossible to hear. A CLP-380 hasn't been submitted yet for him to test to my knowledge.

Cheers,

Steve
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1401356 - 03/22/10 02:19 PM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: mwf]
bkmz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 142
Loc: Belarus
Mark, thanks a lot for the detailed response. I had a similar problems with CLP330 - noticeable layer switches and "boring" sound on recordings. (BTW, your videos are very enjoyable still)

If you like Roland tone, then it's possible that you will like HP307, it's kinda similar to HP207. And I think for such a skilled player as you it will be easy to benefit from all the expressive abilities of HP307 and to achieve great results.

In any case you should try it before buying.
_________________________
ex-Yamaha CLP 330

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#1401397 - 03/22/10 03:23 PM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: bkmz]
shw123 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/21/08
Posts: 66
Loc: Calgary, Canada
I have a CLP-370 (traded up from a 240) which I really quite like. I looked at the Roland 307 when I bought it in December. As I remember the actions were great but the sound wasn't. I found the sound a bit mushy compared to the Yamaha.

So, two things to consider.

First, if you really need digital, and have some money to burn, try the Yamaha Avant Grand N2 (or N3 if it will fit). They are fabulous, but you pay for it.

Next, I seriously considered buying a REAL piano - what a concept. If I remember correctly, the Kawai K-3 is in around the $5,000 mark in Canada vs. $4300 for my 370 and over $5,000 for the 380. You get the same (relatively speaking) Millienium III actions they put into the grand pianos, and for sound - there's no sampling!! If noise is an issue, you'd have to get up into the K-5 range ($7000 ish) to get a practice pedal.

I went digital because of the sound, but in reality, I NEVER practice with headphones, and rarely ever turn down them volume from the 3/4 setting I keep it on. I really wanted to get a good jazz organ sound, and harpsicord, but I don't use those either.

If I had it all to do over again I'd likely get an upright with a good practice pedal.
_________________________
Pianist and Computer Nerd
Kawai GE-30
Yamaha Clavinova CLP-370

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#1401399 - 03/22/10 03:26 PM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: mwf]
surgtech Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/29/05
Posts: 98
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: mwf

I think its best to have a current model using newer improved sound technology, the CLP-380 is now yesterdays news, the new CLP range comes out soon anyway, I bet my life on it that they also blend some modelling technology/new wood keyboard into the new range from that new fancy modelled stage piano Yamaha just released - CP1 or something.
Mark


How soon the new CLP will come out? This summer or January next year?
_________________________
Andrew

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#1401404 - 03/22/10 03:31 PM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: surgtech]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2392
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
There's no rumours leaking out about a new CLP range yet...Jan 2011 at the very earliest in my opinion (NAMM show maybe?).

Steve
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1401476 - 03/22/10 05:38 PM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: EssBrace]
mwf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 419
Loc: Peterborough, England
Hi Steve,

I did like my FP-4 and yes I can try a HP-307 out, just hope its a nice piano. Thanks for your message, and everyone else.

Regards

Mark
_________________________
www.youtube.com/ukpiano

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#1402326 - 03/23/10 09:47 PM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: mwf]
Art A. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/10
Posts: 145
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Mark, I have had my 307 now for 2 weeks exactly. And while its incredible what modern technology has yielded in a digital instrument I can say without any reserve that this is the first and last digital piano I will buy.

I don't think its "thin" sounding but there are just certain combinations of notes / chords that yield this unbearable subtle "ringing" in the background. Very very faint, only the most sensitive ear will pick it up. I have tried moving the piano to different locations, I have tried most every combination of settings in the piano designer. I don't think this is something programmed into the sound but its there and it is very irritating if you notice it, it doesn't do it in Clavinova for example, but its there in all 3 piano settings.

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#1402362 - 03/23/10 11:00 PM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: Art A.]
Nguyen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 430
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Art A.
...I don't think its "thin" sounding but there are just certain combinations of notes / chords that yield this unbearable subtle "ringing" in the background. Very very faint, only the most sensitive ear will pick it up...
That's exactly what I hear too. I don't think it's something you can pick up testing at a dealer but at home, late into the night, it's very noticeable. Sometimes it’s even unbearable. If you’re looking to buy, test it out diligently with a headphone. Everything else is great but that background ringing… ugh… I am starting to hate it. I have to admit, I have no choice but try to get used to it and see where I end up.
_________________________
Nguyen - Student Pianist

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#1402373 - 03/23/10 11:17 PM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: Nguyen]
Rob Mullins Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/10/04
Posts: 309
Loc: LA CA
Hi,
I love Roland gear. I'm not familiar with the exact model you are talking about but I do know things you can do.
1. Sell it. Put it on Ebay or take it back.
2. Take a set of headphones you trust next time you shop and listen carefully before buying.
3. If the unit you bought has eq on it, vary the frequency of the midrange band or high band if it has that parameter to find the ring that annoys you and drop the frequency 6 db.
4. Buy a graphic or parametric eq and run your keyboard through that.
_________________________
Rob Mullins
www.planetmullins.com
Two openings in my private lessons program starting in Nov.

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#1402416 - 03/24/10 12:35 AM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: Nguyen]
Art A. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/10
Posts: 145
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Very good observation Nguyen that as you go later into the night it becomes very noticable. Not sure if its your ears getting tired or just so quiet in the house that its more obvious.

Overall the sound is very good, very rich. But this strange phenomenom is a really sore thumb.


Edited by Art A. (03/24/10 12:36 AM)

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#1402534 - 03/24/10 06:31 AM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: Rob Mullins]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Rob Mullins


3. If the unit you bought has eq on it, vary the frequency of the midrange band or high band if it has that parameter to find the ring that annoys you and drop the frequency 6 db.


If specific notes bother you, use a pitch to frequency conversion chart to determine what frequencies to notch out.
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1402595 - 03/24/10 09:32 AM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: Melodialworks Music]
mwf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 419
Loc: Peterborough, England
Oh guys I am not liking the comments on the noise issue with this piano, this was going to be my next piano and I am already very put off by the things I am hearing on here frown
_________________________
www.youtube.com/ukpiano

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#1402607 - 03/24/10 09:51 AM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: mwf]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8847
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
mwf, I can understand why you might be a little put-off by some of the comments above, however it's vitally important that you play-test the instrument yourself, before casting judgement.

I'm not suggesting that Art A. or Nguyen are imagining things, just that the noises that they are hearing may not be noticeable to everyone.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1402636 - 03/24/10 10:20 AM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: Kawai James]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Especially for those of us who are a bit older, these high pitch complaints may really be a moot point... grin

http://www.mosquito-ni.com/

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#1402642 - 03/24/10 10:23 AM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: Kawai James]
CruelStrings Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 138
But keep in mind as well, that even if you do not hear it at the moment, once your ear gets more sensible to sound, you might eventually start to hear it.
At this point the warranty might have expired or your dealer will not return it.

I am not saying this sound exists, but if it does, you have to keep in mind that you might start hearing it.


Edit: Oh my god I just read about this Mosquito system and I am amazed and appalled at the same time lol.


Edited by CruelStrings (03/24/10 10:32 AM)

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#1402645 - 03/24/10 10:28 AM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: CruelStrings]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Well, every digital piano or keyboard I have owned started to get on my nerves if I played it too much.
That is where the infinite aliveness of an acoustic piano becomes apparent.

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#1402648 - 03/24/10 10:33 AM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: theJourney]
CruelStrings Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 138
Because the tone always shifts and moves, which requires the tuner. Might be a blessing in disguise.

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#1402649 - 03/24/10 10:33 AM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: theJourney]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2392
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
This high pitched ringing is present to simulate the sympathetic resonance of the undamped few notes at the top of the keyboard. Playing any other notes will clearly excite the very highest undamped notes...there is nothing wrong and Roland intended this sound to be there. Whether you like it or not is another matter. I accept it for what it is and it is not a problem to me.

Steve
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1402656 - 03/24/10 10:35 AM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: EssBrace]
bkmz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 142
Loc: Belarus
http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/21258736/HP307_e02.pdf
High-pitched ringing is heard

If you hear this in headphones:
Piano sounds that have a brilliant and crisp character contain substantial high-frequency components that may
sound as though a metallic ringing has been added. This is because the character of an actual piano is being
faithfully reproduced, and is not a malfunction. This ringing is more obtrusive if the reverb effect is applied heavily, so you may be able to minimize it by decreasing the reverb.

If you don’t hear this in headphones:
It is likely that there is some other reason (such as resonances within the unit). Please contact your dealer or a
nearby Roland service center.
_________________________
ex-Yamaha CLP 330

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#1402682 - 03/24/10 11:14 AM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: bkmz]
mwf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/06
Posts: 419
Loc: Peterborough, England
Ok wait a sec, is this ringing/noise only an issue with headphones or something? Because I wont ever play with headphones anyway, I cant see the point, as the speakers can be turned down and alot of the effects etc. are only fully achieved through the onboard speaker system.

Regards

Mark
_________________________
www.youtube.com/ukpiano

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#1402688 - 03/24/10 11:19 AM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: mwf]
Art A. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/10
Posts: 145
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
MWF, I hear it without headphones. I haven't tried headphones yet and didn't pay this kind of money to wear headphones. This "ring" is not easily detected at all. I really have to listen for it when I first start practicing each day but after an hour it becomes more and more apparent. Some notes more then other notes. I don't think its part of the sympathetic resonance simulation, this is very faint above and beyond it.

The best way I can demonstrate it at home is to play the fist two A's together above middle C.

You will have an edge over me as I wasn't able to really "play" the instrument before I chose it as I am getting back into it after 25 years hiatus.

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#1402732 - 03/24/10 12:13 PM Re: Roland HP-307 [Re: Art A.]
Nguyen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 430
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: KAWAI James
mwf, I can understand why you might be a little put-off by some of the comments above, however it's vitally important that you play-test the instrument yourself, before casting judgement.

I'm not suggesting that Art A. or Nguyen are imagining things, just that the noises that they are hearing may not be noticeable to everyone.
James, it’s always a pleasant to see your perspective. I wish we have a Roland Joe and a Yamaha John in this forum as well. It’d be interesting to see what they have to say about this ringing. Anyway, your presence is very much appreciated here.

Originally Posted By: EssBrace
This high pitched ringing is present to simulate the sympathetic resonance of the undamped few notes at the top of the keyboard. Playing any other notes will clearly excite the very highest undamped notes...there is nothing wrong and Roland intended this sound to be there. Whether you like it or not is another matter. I accept it for what it is and it is not a problem to me.
Glad to hear you have a different perspective. I’m anxious to see what you’ll think once you have it for a few weeks. It’s something I can deal with, but definitely not pleasant, not at all.

Originally Posted By: Art A.
MWF, I hear it without headphones. I haven't tried headphones yet and didn't pay this kind of money to wear headphones. This "ring" is not easily detected at all. I really have to listen for it when I first start practicing each day but after an hour it becomes more and more apparent.
I can’t hear it without headphones, at least not yet. Art.A, you just said everything I wanted to say about the “after an hour” noticeable.

My ears aren’t acoustic trained. I guess if it’s the sympathetic resonance like Steve mentioned, I’ll probably have an issue with an acoustic as well.

I agree with James though. It’s not something easily detected. You need to test it out. If you do, please pay attention to what have been mentioned.
_________________________
Nguyen - Student Pianist

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