Actually it's an excellent way to transpose.

Very interesting.

To get back to Ann's question, from the point of view of her student, I would think that he's asking "what the heck is that?".

I would suppose that what he needs to see is that the symbols are deformations or embellishments of the letters F and G (and C, for the C clef).

And that, very simply, they indicate where the note is found.

That provides a starting point for reading, instead of that horrid "every good boy does fine".

Thanks for your responses! This child has seen how the bass and treble clef symbols are derived from the letters F and G, but I can remind him of that. His real concern was about the names though, and he didn't ask about the symbols.

I'll tell him that "bass" clef comes from the Latin bassus which means low. And that "treble" clef comes from Latin "triplus" meaning third. I'll explain that in writing for 3 voices the top voice was referred to as the third voice (treble).

I've book marked www.answers.com since it looks like a site that could really come in handy!

Also tell him they are notes in his vocal range as opposed to his dad's.

Bassus is a Latin adjective meaning "thick, fat, stumpy, short" . It is fascinating if true that the Romans used it to describe pitch but it certainly doesn't mean low (in a spatial sense)! I think the Romans would have meant 'base' as in supporting structure.

True enough, good point.



Hey wait a minute, you aren't going to tell the kid that his dad is thick, fat and stumpy!

Could it possibly be that they were thinking of the string? The lowest string would be thick and fat. This could even lead directly to an exploration of the innards of a piano.

I think the point is Roman, like most cultures, don't use the spatial low/high metaphor. It's pretty much nonsense. Big notes/small notes as in much of Africa is far more sensible or even thick/thin.

Fascinating!

In fact bass as in a base for the music makes much more sense. It's not as if those notes lie under the piano while the treble hover over head!

The clef signs for piano are really not needed. I think they come from a time when notation was "penned" with ink and represent the flourishes of "calligraphy".

The simplicity of the idea is much better represents by the simple bolding of the bass F and the treble G lines along with middle C which could be bolded with in use also. It's only to designate the 5th fingers showing the dominant and sub-dominates of the Key of C afterall. It's about C as tonic and Middle C as centered to the keyboard and the music staff with a shared thumbs on C as the structure. Nine natural white notes in all in that position. This being the key in which all notes are white notes nothing else needs to be accomodated in what is really the first step to understanding the notation and playing of the keyboard. All else comes later with experience and logic.

I'm for the KISS method of minimalization.

The word clef simply means "key".

I have a question for anyone out there I just got an old piano given to me and wanted to find information about it but can't find much information about it. If someone would be so gracefull to help me I would really appriciate it. I have a Grinnell Bros. grand upright the serial# is 16125 I know that it is at the least 44 years or better. Please if you know anything write me back.

I am curious about something. Accompanists - do you ever have reason to be familiar with the alto or tenor clefs?

Of course, because we have to not only read the parts of soloists but also, at times, help them with their parts.

We also have to be able to read music that is transposed, such as Bb trumpet, Eb sax, F horn, and so on...

The familiarity with alto and tenor clefs would come with practice. If you were to accompany soloists who use these clefs regularly then you would become better at it yourself.

You should understand the clefs and know how to work them out at least.

Maddugger, you should post your question in the piano forum for more response.

I was taught that and it works! That's probably why it's on page one of WF's Buchlein.

Thousands of kids have seen those symbols and never wondered.

He's a keeper!

I wish there were a way to teach that.

My Latin scholar brother tells me bass (as in bassus) was never used by the Romans. He says they used gravis (as in accent grave in French - the one that goes down)